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300 Mile Range?

300 Mile Range?

Why does Tesla continue to claim an over 300 mile range. We all know this is not at all a truth.

tes-s | 17 januar 2014

Got a link?

cloroxbb | 17 januar 2014

You acheive 283wh/m and you can scrape 300 miles in 85kwh. So acheive 250 wh/m and you can hit it using 75kwh...

cloroxbb | 17 januar 2014

Point is, it CAN be done. So they dont need to change anything.

redacted | 17 januar 2014

On the Model S page I see "Up to 265MI EPA Certified Range." Which I think is completely accurate.

AoneOne | 17 januar 2014

Mileage claims are always based on specific conditions: 265 miles per EPA, 300 under "ideal" conditions: 55 MPH, level road, minimal heat or A/C.

As they say, YMMV.

jordanrichard | 17 januar 2014

judimasters, it's no different than the numbers that any manufacturer boasts on their websites, ads on TV, etc. I own a Volvo V70 that is "rated" for 28 highway, but I have never seen it.

AmpedRealtor | 17 januar 2014

Tesla makes its claims because they are true.

My lifetime average is 294 Wh/mi. That means that I've been averaging 289 miles per charge. Two days ago I drove 114 miles of errands and averaged 270 Wh/mi, or 315 miles per charge. I would say that Tesla's claims are quite realistic and easily achieved.

Wayne3 | 17 januar 2014

300 was the number under the "old" EPA 2-cycle measurement. 265 is the number under the "new" EPA 5-cycle test. Same car, two different tests. Tesla currently shows 265 on their Model S web page, so not sure what the beef is.

Brian H | 17 januar 2014

Aone;
The pre-2011 EPA 2-cycle test yielded 300 miles. The replacement 5-cycle test yielded 265 miles. Every car suffered a similar 15% EPA decrease, AFAIK.

Brian H | 17 januar 2014

corr: ~12% decrease

hamer | 17 januar 2014

It is possible to achieve a 400 mile range. Just drive 25 MPH on a straight and level highway, on cruise control, in 70 degree weather.

The 300 is in "ideal" conditions, which are rarely to never met.

The 265 is more realistic, but nonetheless, the mileage drops off seriously depending on conditions and the speed at which it is driven.

I would not object to characterizing the 300 miles as "spin" rather than a lie but the 265 is achievable under many conditions. Probably the 75 MPH we'd all like to drive

SamO | 17 januar 2014

423.5 miles is the record of a father and son team, David and Adam Metcalf.

http://www.teslamotors.com/customers/story-david-adam-metcalf

YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY, DEPENDING ON CONDITIONS AND DRIVING "STYLE".

SamO | 17 januar 2014

JB Straubel's explanation of "Model S Efficiency and Range"

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-efficiency-and-range

SamO | 17 januar 2014

From the above:

Tesla range v speed

AoneOne | 17 januar 2014

Brian,
I don't doubt your accuracy, but I was referring to Tesla's current statement: "Estimated range at 55 mph" is 300 miles.

See http://www.teslamotors.com/models/features#/performance

Gixxxerking | 17 januar 2014

300 miles is certainly doable if you're careful. About 200-230ish depending on driving style, weather and road conditions(ie hills ect.) is more typical. Even so for everyday driving you plug up a lot when you're home or work. It's not like a normal gas powered car where you wait until a 1/4 tank to fuel up again.

-Me

SamO | 17 januar 2014

95%+ of your trips in a year will be done in under 200 miles. On those rare occasions, simple careful driving will allow you a range in excess of 250 miles.

With added precautions, climate controls and speed adjustments, a range in excess of 350 miles is easily achievable.

Dr. Bob Reinke | 17 januar 2014

The last so-called American made truck I bought had an EPA sticker on the window that claimed 27 MPG. In my experience there were too many twos (2) in the milage bragging, because I never got more than single diget milage on the highway. Learned that there is a huge amount of manufacturer puffing in those numbers. However, I can tell you that I have, with my P85 Signature, on several trips near Chicago, in Chicago traffic, gotten well over 300 miles on a single charge.

My range on Wisconsin freeways is somewhat less at 287 miles. But then, I didn't spend a lot of time tollway parked in construction watching the traffic on surface streets zooming by.

AmpedRealtor | 17 januar 2014

Lifetime average mileage for my P85 stands at 115 MPGe, or ~ 30% better than the EPA rating of 89 MPGe. To calculate your MPGe:

where EM is equal to your Wh/mi.

In case the above equation doesn't show up, here is the Wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_per_gallon_gasoline_equivalent

Basically just divide 33,705 by your Wh/mi and you get MPGe. This is a great way to see if you are getting better than the 89 MPGe EPA estimate.

SamO | 17 januar 2014

@AR

109.43 MPGe

But I give a LOT of test rides. I just had a ~1000 mile stretch where my MPGe was 126.

Thanks for posting the formula!

LMB | 17 januar 2014

(LMB spouse)

@AR: I think the EPA MPGe calculation uses input power but the Tesla display uses output power, thus ignoring battery charge/discharge inefficiency. Also, the car's display may not account for non-driving (vampire) losses.

Mark22 | 17 januar 2014

A11: "I don't doubt your accuracy, but I was referring to Tesla's current statement: "Estimated range at 55 mph" is 300 miles.

See http://www.teslamotors.com/models/features#/performance"

And this is accurate. At 55 mph at standard temps I get over 300 miles. What are you trying to claim?

Mathew98 | 17 januar 2014

@LMB - AR openly welcomes any vampire sucking on his veins...

AoneOne | 17 januar 2014

LMB spouse: indeed the trip computers only reflect energy used while the car is "on". I haven't checked, but I'd bet that it doesn't even reflect the energy used to preheat the car when preheating from battery (instead of shore) power.

Mark22 | 17 januar 2014

Sorry A11, disregard please.
To Judi, the OP. At 55 I easily get 300 miles. What is your specific claim.

AmpedRealtor | 17 januar 2014

I've tried hanging garlic around my car, but it doesn't seem to work...

AoneOne | 17 januar 2014

A11, M22, 55, 300: lot's of double-digit figures today. Any numerologists in the forum?

robert | 18 januar 2014

My lifetime average is up to 266 Wh/m. Before the very cold weather, snow and slush it was 256 Wh/m. Given a usable battery capacity of 81,1 kWh that gives 305 miles, in quite adverse conditions. Thus I think Tesla have every right to claim what they claim.

Robert

Jewsh | 18 januar 2014

Interesting to note that JudiMasters hasn't appeared again in this thread and posted a single hyperbolic accusation...

judimasters | 18 januar 2014

@ Jewsh I posted that yesterday afternoon. I have other things I do besides sitting at my computer waiting for an answer. I am here now. What is the problem? I asked a question and got several KIND answer and one nasty gram.

Koz | 18 januar 2014

OMG another one of these DA posts?

eddiemoy | 18 januar 2014

@judi,

take any car's estimate miles per gallon and drive like you normally drive and see what your actual miles per gallon is... i.e. my old gti, i had half of the advertised.

how is it different than your regular ice cars?

so what is your point?

judimasters | 18 januar 2014

@ Koz What is a DA post? I come here to communicate and get answers to questions I have. I have always thought this was a nice way to connect with other Tesla "ENTHUSIASTS". Why are some people trying hard to ruin a good thing?

eddiemoy | 18 januar 2014

@judi,

i've notice more and more of these dumb post from more and more people as the price of the stock goes up... is this the first time you seen any stats from any car?

we seem to be getting more trolls on the forum of late. waste of our time to even respond.

J.T. | 18 januar 2014

@judimasters They can try but they won't. BTW I remember a post where you were having problems getting satisfaction from Service. Whatever happened with that?

judimasters | 18 januar 2014

@ jodtman I have been in communication with service and will soon have my new part. Thanx for asking.

Brian H | 19 januar 2014

See robert's post, above. That 266Wh/mi translates into more than 300 mi.

Big T | 19 januar 2014

Judi, it's not the question but rather the incorrect accusation that followed that brought some of the responses you received.

drp | 19 januar 2014

I think the legal team calls it "Marketing". Duh

AmpedRealtor | 19 januar 2014

@ judimasters,

Just a suggestion, but you may want to revisit the tone of your original post. It reads like a troll bomb.

redacted | 19 januar 2014

@judimasters, lack of restraint and harshness on the part of respondents has been a feature of computer boards since before the internet was even born and is, I think, a combination of human nature and the safety of relative anonymity. There's never been a good answer for it. But at least some people were able to answer your question.

bonaire | 19 januar 2014

Nissan was claiming 100 miles for the Leaf and even had people at 2013 auto shows claiming 100 miles when asked about range. Of course, an educated consumer is the best customer.

info | 19 januar 2014

As I recall, Robert SE is in Norway (in winter) and is averaging 40 kwh less than I am in So. Cal, and I drive pretty conservatively. I know that he is an advocate of coasting and I briefly read his posted technique. I have achieved 270 actual miles with 15 left on the gauge on a roundtrip from Long Beach to Indio, but it involved keeping speed between 60-65 and tucking in behind the big trucks.

@Robert-SE: Could you please tell us your techniques again so we can see if there's a way we can use them safely on our roads. It would be phenomenal for us ALL to be able to lower our use. Eventually the supercharges will become crowded. If we all could chop 15% off our usage, the crowds would be less.

AmpedRealtor | 19 januar 2014

Efficiency can be greatly enhanced if you remember one thing: maintain your forward momentum! Stopping or slowing down for traffic lights, stop signs, and other traffic is a range killer. The best way to slow down, if you must, is by coasting. This maintains your forward momentum as long as possible. There are diminishing returns when doing this on a downhill, as the effects of wind resistance can take a toll.

Example: You see a red light 1/4 mile ahead, what should you do? Well, the last thing you want to do is stop at that red light (kills all momentum), so the key is to maintain as much forward momentum as possible while reaching the light as it turns green. Use a combination of coasting and regen to modulate your speed so that you get to the intersection with enough speed to drive through it as the light turns green. The same holds true for traffic jams, which is why you should keep a good buffer space between you and the car ahead of you. When the car ahead of you slows down or stops in traffic, you have the buffer zone in which to regulate your momentum so that your car keeps moving right through the traffic jam. This benefits the drivers behind you as well.

You can google Prius hypermiling and that will give you some good ideas that you should be able to translate to your Model S.

judimasters | 19 januar 2014

@ AmpedRealtor Thank you for the details. This driving technique has been naturally learned by me over the course of my ownership of this fantastic car. I have been very amazed at what those two techniques do. It makes me a calmer driver. I have so much space in front of me that often times other cars will jump in front of me. Before the Tesla I would feel irritated but now I just back off a bit and carry on.
What does irritate me is the driver behind me coming up to a red light flashing his high beams and scurrying around me to inevitably accomplish one thing. He must sit and wait at the red light.

judimasters | 19 januar 2014

So with all this being said, I still don't understand because my car only charges up to 265. Please explain 300 to me. And please, this is a serious question. I am not trying to be contentious.

TeslaTap.com | 19 januar 2014

265 is the estimated range, not actual. There is no way to predict actual, since conditions and your driving style, and where you drive all effect the range. You can drive on flat road at 70 degrees at about 25 mph and get more than 425 miles of range. You can also drive uphill at 90 mph and get 100 miles of range (this is a total guess, and it's hard to drive 100 miles only uphill).

This is no different than an ICE car, except they provide a gas gauge that has so little relation to your range, most users just fill up when low and never think about how different driving conditions and styles greatly affect the range. Driving issues that affect electric cars also affect ICE cars, but few users care because they are not giving any useful feedback (i.e. crappy gas gauge).

TeslaTap.com | 19 januar 2014

giving -> given

AmpedRealtor | 19 januar 2014

@ judimasters,

Your range display in Model S can be one of two readings, depending on how you've set up your controls. For instance, ideal range will report close to 300 miles on a full charge while rated range will show close to 265 miles on a full charge. The only difference is the testing methodology. Ideal range uses the EPA 2-cycle test which was current at the time Tesla started quoting the 300 mile range specification. Then EPA updated to the 5-cycle test, which rated the S85 at 265 miles. Tesla lets you select which range calculation you want to display, but advertises range according to the 265 mile EPA 5-cycle rating.

My driving style regularly gets me very close to ideal range, so that is what I have set up in Controls->Settings. Here is a graph that better illustrates the impact speed has on range:

AmpedRealtor | 19 januar 2014

@ lorenfb,

I appreciate that you are trying to pull us back into a Leaf vs. Model S argument. However, please let me remind you that this thread is not the appropriate place and your post is off-topic. This thread is specific to the accuracy of Tesla's claim that Model S has a 300 mile range. This is not a comparison thread between Leaf and Model S.

I believe we already engaged you in debate in another thread, where you soundly lost your argument on every front using your own calculations and numbers. Please stop trying to re-fight your lost battles over and over again. Your time may be better spent in a Leaf forum, but I suspect that even there the truth will eventually catch up to you.

I'm flagging your off topic post. It is inappropriate and not relevant to this discussion.

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