Is it because of the amount of posting being done on the S thread,
OR, Tesla genius in controlling the angst and therefore the media attention on lack of deliveries?
It has dawned on naysayers that resistance is futile. People were naysaying about autopilot too. But it's so good that all data about its delay has faded. Naysayers fear that same is going to happen with X too. It might be so good that no one will remember how hard naysayers toiled. History won't acknowledge their efforts.
@Ross: The newest 'shiny toy' is always going to get the most attention on the TM/TMC forums. So, many posters have moved on to 'AP'.
In addition, it is something people 'have' and can give real world experience of their own about. Only a hand full of people, Founders, have their Xs. I would be surprised if Founders participate in the forums.
If they have a comment, positive or negative, they have EMs cell phone number. :)
Probably because MX's are almost non-existent since the software delivery.
Here they are. You have summoned them @Ross. :)
@Ankit: Sorry if we are expressing our opinions as TSLA stock holders, owners of their products, reservists of other products.
Tell me what I posted above that is not true. It happens in all walks of life. The 'newest' thing always gets the most immediate attention.
Go to the BMW forums. They bring out the i8 and that becomes the center of attention for that moment.
Take your pick your pick of internet forums and the most discussed topic will be the newest 'thing'.
Not sure why you have to categorize/imply that because one posts in any thread that the person has some type of bias.
It's my general perception of your posts that you are discontent with Tesla because how the X turned out. That's cool. But you have been questioning the direction that Tesla is taking because they spent time and money on FWD. You have made several posts with almost exact same content. That's fine. But that gives me enough data to consider you as a discontent person with the recent direction of Tesla.
Now about this thread. Yet again you choose to focus on the half glass empty part with X. Your point is factually correct but I find it irrelevant unless Tesla doesn't plan to make further deliveries with X. But that isn't true because Sig holders have been assigned VIN and pics are available showing testing of finished X at the plant.
So what's the use of focussing on the fact (though true) that only 6 X are present in hands of customers?
Please don't consider my post as some form of policing. There are few things I dislike as strongly as shoving your views in someone else's throat. But I cant betray my perception of you as a discontent person whose recent experience with X has left a bitter taste in his/her mouth.
Thank you for supporting Tesla by buying its stock, cars and reserving X. You are doing good stuff and you don't need anyone to certify that.
As a stockholder, I was not too thrilled at the complexity of MX, increased costs and associated delays. Cut my position in late July. However, I added shares last week on Thursday because the priced dropped, analysts had turned negative, etc. Meanwhile, the auto-pilot V7 seems to be impressive and a lot of reservation holders are inclined to buy the MX.
In the end, the FWD, seats and the windshield are issues that will be resolved with optimization of the manufacturing process. Tesla knew that these would be critical issues and made it all work. It was impressive watching the FWD doors work with the minivans parked closed to it... even if not enthusiastic about the FWD!
I suspect that Tesla will scale production of the MX much faster than Wall Street expects, especially next year. Anybody visited the factory since the new assembly line with 500+ robots started working? Link to videos?
@Ankit Mishra: I don't consider my posts to this thread as negative. They appear quite accurate and I think they address human nature. The 'newest' thing always gets the most attention.
Something else will come up shortly and will divert attention away from AP.
Look at this logically. We are all speculating about things regarding the X because factually only a few people have them and are able to give real world experiences. That fact is not meant to be negative. Factually, many people now are using AP so there can be some real world experience expressed by a number of people so that is now a hot topic. It is getting both positive and negative responses.
For the record: I am disappointed in the currently offered SigX but I am not bitter. I have participated in both the S (mostly) and the X (recently) forums here for a couple years.
For the record:
1. I like the AP
2. I like the FWD (my wife is neutral..good access but too 'attention getting for her taste.). Read the other thread...I am not against them just questioning whether they were necessary to achieve the mission statement. It is a fair question that no one has the answer to, and never will.
3. I will buy an X, when it fits my particular needs and am happy for the people that will be getting one, as is. I have not asked people to buy/not buy the X. I believe it is the best SUV on the market for moving people: safely, comfortably, in numbers as large a 7..and is fast. It will replace many ICE SUV,CUVs, and Minivans. That is a good thing for those families and the environment.
4. I have started several threads here and on TMC. My frame of reference in posting is to *try* to give facts, when possible, or honest (whether positive or negative) whenever possible. We are all human, if I appear 'negative' to you, that is from your frame of reference. I can't and would not try to change that.
5. Even when I don't agree with people I try not to 'catagorize' them and accept that they may have a different frame of reference than mine.
I now return you all to our thread topic: Sorry that I have diverted this discussion.
I think you're right. The naysayers looked at the AP and realized that Tesla actually knows what its doing.
I also find it fasinating that the few who strongly dilike the 2nd row seat are also the few who strongly disapprove the FWD or the new windshield or the AP or in general how Tesla do things all with different reasonings.
@carlk n @Ankitmishra I agree with you both. The negative posts get old, especially when they are posted multiple times on the same and different threads. Either buy the car or not....contact TM with your suggestions.
@laura: I have contacted TM with suggestions and comments both 'pro' and 'con'
I participate in an open forum to share opinions. Sorry, if I am one of the 'negative' people to whom you are referring and you don't like my posts.
there are many other here that posts their same opinions on multiple threads.
If you don't feel I am contributing to discuss please ignore my posts.
If you are on TMC they have a great function that I have not personally used where you can put an 'ignore' on certain posters.
We have a better function here than TMC forum. We discuss about everything rather than banning people or asking them to stay out of the thread. Yet again I disagree with you on another topic and that's fine. This is the beauty of this forum that we can still talk without the interference of a moderator.
Misery loves new company. It just migrated.
@ankit: on your last post we can agree! :). Just no need to 'label' people. Accept we have different perspectives on things and will not always agree.
I will try very hard to prevent any further labelling of people. I might need some time to learn to take the gloomy discontent posts without getting excited. But I would like to prevent calling people naysayers etc.
Just an FYI, avoiding terms like 'gloomy discontent' will help you along the way.
I don't think @carlk or I called you out......this time.
I'm an overly optimistic realistic ....only fret about what I can change, fix it n move on.
@Laura: Thanks for clarifying. Have a good factory tour. Hopefully you will see line#2 churning out many Xs!
Most likely scenario is that they held back the release of AP for a good reason.
The reason turned out to deflect attention away from slow or non existent X ramp up.
It sure worked a doodle.
@Ross Another possibility for the lack of MX complaints is that most of us have successfully gone through the 5 stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and finally acceptance. I made it to acceptance last week, it was a big breakthrough for me.
@Ankit Mishra, @Carlk, @LauraTesla - Who died and left you three in charge of the peanut gallery to post negative on those who have a honest and realistic opinion that you don't agree with? This is an open forum to present thoughts and opinions, and while you have the right to express yours, it should not be attacking others for theirs... did you fail "playing in the sandbox 101"?
Some of us who owns lots of Tesla stock and are waiting to purchase an X may not be thrilled with some of Tesla's choices...while I can sell my stock (for a significant loss due to recent plunges) and cancel my reservation I choose not to.
Carlk has a considerable track record of pouncing on others, crying "basher","hater" and other negative labels, now I see he is in good company with other small minds...and once again Carlk..."every other SUV in the world has folding 2nd row seats"...you want to make dismiss me again???
@Ankit Mishra "We discuss about everything rather than banning people or asking them to stay out of the thread." Really? Right after you lay into @AImc... Practice what you preach!!!
I can't wait to tune in tomorrow and read the critique of this posting, cause I am pretty sure you prima donnas will whip up some good hateful comments since it seems to be what you do best.
Now that that's said... How about them Cowboys?
One of the things I've seen in multiple threads from many posters (both pro and con) is repeatedly saying the same thing--sometimes in different words, sometimes literal repostings in multiple threads. It's almost like people think the reason there is disagreement is because people didn't "get" it the first, or second, or tenth time it was said. To me, that is what gets old--on any side of the discussions.
@johnse Good comment, I have been guilty of that myself, I guess it feels that different people are in different threads, which may or may not be the case.
If the car doesn't work for some people and they express it then that's fine. The problem begins when they begin to take shots at Elon, Tesla or make prophecies that X will be a failure. Some of the people belonging to your school of thought have been posting very strong worded posts as to how due to lack or due to presence of some features the X is a fail and then they go on to question the decision making capabilities of Elon.
Now that is trying to force your opinion onto other people. If you don't like the car that fine. Don't try to present it that it won't work for anyone or it is a disaster in making.
Also some of you guys have been copy paying exact same post questioning FWD and then question Elon decision to spend time on them. Again if you don't like them it's fine don't try to show that it won't work for any of other people or is a bad decision by Tesla.
I am pretty confident in my mind's abilities and your opinion about it doesn't matter to me. I think you are implying that you are a better person because you feel there is something righteous about bashing X. I hope you do good things with that big mind of yours.
Getting off topic.
Find the appropriate thread.
Address the Original Post, 2 points
Back on topic. I do expect that there will be a new 'shiny apple' to talk about in a few days. I just don't know which one.
Just would like to see people be civil, regardless of your opinion on what that will be.
While I agree with johnse that the incessant harping about seats, doors, and rooftop racks is grating, people who don't care have to just ignore it. There is nothing people in this or any other forum is going to accomplish by arguing with people about these things. I feel bad for the folks who have waited this long to find out the X doesn't meet their requirements. I understand that they think that if they say it enough times Tesla will get the message and change things. But that is up to Tesla. The advantage the complainers have is that if this were GM or Toyota, they would probably just drop the car model. Tesla being small and having only 3 models isn't going to do that, so they will adapt. But that isn't going to happen until the current backlog of orders decreases significantly. So we will hear this for months if not years.
Hopefully once Sigs get delivered and Bonnie and others begin to write about their experiences, and demo X cars start appearing in the showrooms people will be better able to decide if this car is worth the price and meets their needs.
If you own stock does it have any meaning at all to anything. So what. It's a publicly traded company, anyone can own as much or as little as they like.
People must not own many stocks when they post,"as a stockholder I want this or that", do you really think they care what people who own .0000001% of the company think.
I think this is exactly why the posts (except the repeated ones) have diminished. Everyone is waiting for real feedback and something to touch at this point. You can only speculate for so long.
And if you think it's slow here, over at TMC there are only a handful of MX related posts per day. This started before the AP release too.
I got impatient and went over to the Factory on Friday and saw a few X's being put thru their paces on the test track...Pictures on TMC...
@Roamer Elon owns 25% of the company. I'm sure he has the most interest in well being of the company than anyone else especially those who own negative amount of the stock.
@Ankit Mishra That's how I would answer too. Don't let trolls to shut you down. As the saying goes the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
@Roamer: Unfortunate reality about stockholders: It seems that to try to prove you are not trying to affect the share price negatively by posting anything that is not positive about TM or the product offerings one must identify themselves as stockholders/owners of TM products/reservation holders. Sad, but true.
@carlk: really: people who post things you don't agree with are 'evil'?
@AlMc I've been very nice to you since I know you're frustrated but if you are trying to pick a fight just say so.
Let's start from here.. Nay I'm not going to do it this time.
I'm just going to ignore you from now on.
It's not about agreeing or disagreeing. We are in dead zone about X. We have option to speculate on what may happen. Now there are two school of thoughts emerging here. One that me and carlk belong to choose to expect good things to happen. We have enough data to base our expectations on. We are talking about a man that has made EV relevant.
Other school of thought that you belong to choose to expect bad things to happen. You choose to doubt Tesla decisions. You choose question Elon's abilities when he has doing extraordinary things one after another.
Just because we don't have data about X and we are left to speculate, some of you choose to predict failure.
It is evident from the targets some people have selected for X- 5, 15, 20 etc. I mean are you guys serious? You are saying that after launching the car there will be less than 100 deliveries this year. Man, if it turns out to be true you guys are sure wasting your talents. Better solve some of the problems world is facing.
@carlK: If you prefer to ignore my posts that is certainly your prerogative. If you are on TMC they do have an 'ignore' function if that is your true intent.
My intention in responding to people, including you, is two fold: First, to discuss things of importance to all; Second, to keep things civil. Second, to try to keep some type of decorum, if possible.
If I have offended you, I apologize. I will continue to respond to your posts if I think I may have something to add or want further clarification.
Wait... What's the point of this thread again? Complaints about the level of complaints about things that don't need to be complained about?
I think that all right thinking people on this forum are sick and tired of being told that ordinary decent forum members are fed up with being sick and tired. I'm certainly not, and I'm sick and tired of being told that I am.
@rmitchum: Well said.
I think that the people who were unhappy said what they needed to say and while still of the same opinion, decided to move on. I am also sick and tired of being sick and tired and of course the long wait.
@ Ankit Mishra - I should just take the "high road" and ignore and dismiss your preaching comments, but in the interest of being a good forum citizen I will respond to say that I have no intention of swaying anyone's opinion, nor criticize another regarding their opinion.
Some of my prior posts have simply been my expressing my frustration with some of the decisions in the design decisions and features made by TMC with respect to a "dream car" that may not 100% for me, but I still want to purchase it.
I can cancel my res and sell my shares anytime and may actually do so if the features and/or the numbers don't work for me.
Other posts of mine have commented on your and other's posts that simply criticize others for expressing their opinion which I find childish and pathetic.
Truth is nobody is wrong when expressing their opinion, and should NOT be criticized for doing so.
If you agree, then we are all good.
All the others on this page of this thread... Hear Hear
And @thevangoghs How cool was the factory tour?, I hope to go early next year
@Wait4: I agree and feel that the X forums have become a little more civil recently. One knows that expressing an opinion on TM that is not in line with the mainstream will elicit some counter arguments.
Just leave the 'labelling' of people or their motives out. Attacking the person in a debate/sharing of opinions is usually an indication that you have no better way of countering
someone else's assertions.
This is not directed at any particular individual(s). Just a general comment about sharing opinions and countering ones which you don't happen to agree.
This site has 'hand's off' moderation. It is part of the reason that many have moved over to TMC, IMO.
@thevangoghs - Please post a link or direction tithe photos on the TMC site. There's so much there, it's hard to navigate. Didn't find the photos I expected unless they were the outdoor shots in the "Random model X sightings" thread.
Could you post some comments about anything X-related you saw on the factory tour?
@rossRallen: I don't believe he went on a factory tour. he went over to the factory location and took photos of Xs on the outdoor track.