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Positive opinion of Sig Next Gen seats

Positive opinion of Sig Next Gen seats

I felt compelled to start this as a new post, given that the current posts on seating seem to be full of unhappy reservation holders. However, my wife and I both agree that we like the Sig configuration with the Next Gen seats, even though they don't fold. Our primary purpose in getting the Model X is for carrying people -- our son, his friends, our relatives and friends, etc. We plan to not only use it for taking our kid to school, but also for long trips, where the comfort of the seats for all passengers is a priority.

Now I do genuinely feel for those who reserved this vehicle for its cargo carrying capacity. I do agree that Tesla has poorly managed the communication with reservation holders since the prototype was initially demonstrated. However, some of us, perhaps even a less vocal majority, wanted the Model X primarily because of the ability to carry seven adult passengers. I think that was the main billing of this vehicle.

As a disclaimer, I should state that, first of all, I plan to keep my Ford F-350 ranch truck, so we will always have a way to transport large items when needed. Also, we don't ski, so there is no need for that capacity. Additionally, our dogs are more likely to ride on the comfy seats, rather than on a folded down flat area.

After digesting all the info on the seating options which is now available, we have agreed that the Next Gen seats are the way to go. It is not a decision we made lightly, as despite being Sig reservation holders, the price tag is still a lot of money for us.

Ron
SigX #1015

Tâm | 16 september 2015

@ronmerkord

Well said. Perfect fit for your needs. Don't forget towing capability when you need to transport large items too. That way, your car's interior will be kept clean and from all the scratches of big items.

aesculus | 16 september 2015

@ronmerkord: Your post pointed out that there is a dichotomy in the seat opinion. Both are right.

This is the reason car manufactures have options. In this case Tesla should sell two types of middle seats (like they did for the MS BTW). One for utility and one for people transport as the primary use.

What Tesla did was to design and sell the car as a utility vehicle, and then for whatever reason, changed the design to a person transport vehicle. This upset a large portion of their potential buyers but actually might have pleased another set.

Regardless of which set is bigger, the other set is still significant. And to top it off you don't pull a bait and switch of this magnitude so late in the game.

Many of us are hoping this is just poor communications and that Tesla still has plans for the utility aspects (folding seats) and will reveal this in short order.

Red Sage ca us | 16 september 2015

My sincere condolences are offered to Model X Signature reservation holders who are not satisfied with the mandatory second row configuration.

ronmerkord | 16 september 2015

@aesculus: I don't think their intention was a bait and switch. I believe, and I think you will agree, that if a quality seat that met all of the necessary engineering criteria, and would also fold down, were available, we would be seeing it in the Model X now.

However, given that this seat is not currently available, Tesla has to make some hard choices. Do they delay the release another 6 months, or do they release it now, with the seats now available, and keep some people happy? Either way, some people will not be happy, but that is the reality of the situation.

I believe you can accuse Tesla of bad communication. You might even accuse them of bad planning, though without knowing the engineering and supply chain details, I don't think that would be fair. However, I do not think that anyone can accuse them of not trying to get out the best possible car, in a timely fashion, to those who have been awaiting their X.

carlk | 16 september 2015

@ronmerkord

given that the current posts on seating seem to be full of unhappy reservation holders.

It's just a few who have special needs that made the most noises. People who are OK with it would never come out to let people know. It's always been the case.

Looks the 2nd row seat is designed more with passenger comfort and convenience than hualing goods in mind which I think is fine with most people. Elon has mentioned the X is designed with a lot of consideration with what female owners wnat. How often do you see a woman, or for that matter man, carries large furnitures in the back of a car? You can always rent a pickup when you need to do those kind of things.

carlk | 16 september 2015

Add that you can use a trailer like @Tâm said too. Wife would never let me to hual large furniture or bags of manure in the $100K+ car even if we could.

Roamer@AZ USA | 16 september 2015

@carlk, May have to use a trailer with my wife's X. Won't be able to haul 16 foot base and case stuck thru the pano like I do with my P85D. When the choice is drive my truck and burn 20 bucks of gas or drive the Tesla it has to be a really big dirty load before the truck gets started.

Roamer@AZ USA | 16 september 2015

Back to the seats. I will give up flat fold slab of seat for the adjustable reclining seats. Most flat fold seats are torture to ride for any distance.

carlk | 16 september 2015

Looks the 2nd row seats can move back and recline. That would be very welcoming for passengers sitting there on long trips.

Madatgascar | 16 september 2015

The rocked-forward second row seats will allow several additional cubic feet of storage space across the footwell area that would otherwise be occupied by folded-flat second row seats...this could make up for lost volume, but the footwell step in the cargo area floor seems awkward. For one thing, I won't be able to sleep in the back very easily, the way I can in my S. And when I store things in the back they will slide forward when I brake and fall in the footwell space. And my bike wheel or handlebars will get stuck over this ledge.

Someone should develop a parcel shelf or an all-weather cargo bed liner to bridge over this gap and make a more functional storage space.

rossRallen | 16 september 2015

I'm happy with the SigX second row sets anyway they come. Although I carry more than 1 passenger maybe 3 times a year, I always kept the second row seats up in my departed SUV. I folded the seats down about 2-3 time a year as well. And, of course, there's the trunk now for more cargo and better load balancing.

I just wish there was proactive and clarifying communication from Tesla after the first Sig X holders went through the Design Studio and all sorts of questions and conjectures arose.

All we have is about 10 reports of people (such as myself) calling Tesla and getting the same answer: the second row does not fold flat.

aljjr2 | 17 september 2015

Respectfully, I reiterate the solution to the angst is simple: Provide the measurements. How much floor space with the third row up? How much floor space with the third row down? How much floor space with the 2nd row doing what every it does. That is communications that all can deal with... no speculation, just facts. Then each reservation holder can determine whether it fits their needs for a bike, golf clubs, people, boxes or anything else they would like to transport. I can appreciate the picture of boxes and bikes, but that still doesn't provide real information, and only fuels the speculation.

DriverZ | 17 september 2015

@aljjr2

+1

grant10k | 17 september 2015

Thing is, we know exactly what day we'll have all of these measurements, answers, pictures, video, everything.

carlk | 17 september 2015

@grant10k Exactly. Most of those who say I want to know NOW don't even have an early sig reservation. What is the point?

jarbet3539 | 17 september 2015

I agree that this is an awful miscalculation on the part of Tesla.
I expected this to be the state of the art in every way. There isn't one other SUV on the market by anyone that doesn't have folding seats in the back. I also agree that they have provided the poorest communication of any company to its customers and share holders as to what they were designing. No one new.

I also am stunned at how first grade their communication is on when they will be calling the signature holders or how many they have already called. None of the sales people know what is going on in their own company. I can't get anyone in corporate to answer their phones besides sales people who know nothing. And leaving messages is total waist of time as they never return phone calls. How low can they go in customer service? As far as I know, they have not let any customers pick their cars yet. I do know that they let all the executives pick their Signature Xs ahead of their paying customers. I found this offensive as well. Has anyone who actually paid received one phone call to pick your colors for delivery?

ian t.wa.us | 17 september 2015

@grant10k and carlk - Do we though? Or are we just ASSUMING they will release all the information that day? We are talking about Tesla here. I don't think we will. I think it will be at a larer date. I hope I'm wrong.

@jarbet3539 - What do you mean by them letting executives pick their X's before paying customers? If you're referring to the Founders, they, too, are paying customers. If it's actual executives driving test cars, well duh, that's just what happens.

Yes they have asked close to 500 signature reservation holders to configure their X's.

You won't get much argument here as to how bad their communication sucks.

grant10k | 17 september 2015

I'm actually talking about the new owners. At the very least we'll get a mountain of information. I assume it would also come direct from Tesla, but it won't matter even if it doesn't.

Roamer@AZ USA | 17 september 2015

Jarbet3539, Configured Sig reservation 309 several days ago. Order goes firm on the 22. Another 100 to 150 Sig orders will open for configuration next week. If no production problems order rates will slowly ramp up.

One thing I like when buying Tesla's is they don't waste my time with phone calls. They sent an email and I logged in and configured. Not real complicated. Purchase agreement showed up in my online "My Tesla" online document file. Buying is as easy as ordering socks from Amazon.

What has been painful is waiting for a product to be available to actually buy. It appears they now have a product and are beginning to finalize orders.

Not an insider and for sure not getting it for free.......

Roamer@AZ USA | 17 september 2015

Jarbet3539, Orders really are starting up. Hard to be critical of the order sequence when people bet $40,000 two years ago to someday be able to place an order and receive the product.

https://www.dropbox.com/photos/shared_space/cK97w4TlaQgnG8O

Ankit Mishra | 18 september 2015

Nice.

vandacca | 18 september 2015

I can only assume that @jarbet3539 just created this account a few days ago at best. This post is full of old news (first paragraph) and wrong information (2nd paragraph).

Word of advice: forum members don't tolerate newcomers who haven't taken the time to spend a few days reading and catching up, prior to posting something that will be perceived as nonsense by others. You can't just step into a conversation and immediately join in until you understand the topic and tone.

Please familiarize yourself with the Tips & Tricks thread first.

With regards to communication, yes Tesla's communication was awful, but it may be slowly getting better. I sent Tesla a question via Email a few weeks ago and I received a phone call within 48 hours, answering all my questions. I won't bother correcting the rest of your misconceptions since others have already done so.

carlk | 18 september 2015

There are early sig holders who need to make a decision now. That I can understand. There are people who can wait until everything is known to make decisions. I'll just tell them to calm down and wait. There is no real value of any information now other than to satisfy your curiousity. We have waited for so long already what's the big deal for a few more weeks. Not to mention waiting can be kind of fun. Things most likely will turn out to be fine if not great.

Then there are people who come here making emotional comments with no purpose other than trolling. To not be mistaken for a troll new members like @jarbet3539 need to at least tell us where you are coming from. Are you a current owner, reservation holder and how the communication affects you? That will make it much easier for us to carry on the conversation.

jarbet3539 | 18 september 2015

ian, how do you know that 500 have been asked to configure their car? Where are you getting that info. I would love to have those kinds of updates.

Others stated only 350 have.

vandacca | 18 september 2015

Highest number asked to configure is currently 448. One of the members has created a website to track Model-X information: https://www.modelxtracker.com/

Mel. | 18 september 2015

carik, +1. i do not think you will get a response from jarbet.

jarbet3539 | 18 september 2015

clearly, you havn't called the main number to talk with people in the corporate offices. I have. I get only voice mails and I leave messages and never get a return phone call. I am a sig holder and have been waiting 2 years. When I talk directly with the sales people for Tesla, they either have no idea how many have been called or refuse to tell me. I don't know why this has created such a back lash. Everything I have said is true for my experience. I did send an e mail once and got a phone call, but was handed off to someone else after the first phone call who wouldn't tell me anymore than I already knew. It was nice to know that the founders paid for their cars, I was told by someone that the Founders were some of the executives in company that were being given their cars.

I tried the tracker X link, but the terms and conditions look like I am opening myself up to all kinds of stuff. Does anyone else use that link to keep up?

Gwgan | 19 september 2015

The data at https://www.modelxtracker.com/ is only as good as the effort of the contributors. If you have a reservation please open an account and add your own data. There is no more risk to you than posting to any other public forum, including this one.

grant10k | 19 september 2015

@Gwgans: No, that's not true.

This form is run by Tesla, and has a privacy policy. There is some semblance of accountability because Tesla is a real company with an address.

Modelxtracker.com is just some guy asking for everyone's email addresses. There's no privacy policy (and no accountability, so I guess it wouldn't matter even if there was).

It wouldn't be as big of an issue except that he requires and email address and your forum name to even see the data. He's asking for people to provide data for free, but by requiring you to sign up to even see the data, he's not giving it back for free.

I think the guy means well, but until he offers some sort of public facing data, I think Modelxtracker.com is a net negative.

jarbet3539 | 19 september 2015

thanks. That was my take on Model X .. so I still ask the question, where are you'll getting info on how many have been called? I am getting nothing from the company.

georgehawley.fl.us | 19 september 2015

Tesla has dropped the ball IMO.
1. 2/2012 reveal clearly showed a prototype X with second row seats that folded flat. Elon even remarked on the cargo capacity of such a configuration.

2. They have adopted a policy of secrecy regarding the production Model X features and will not give Signature reservation holders details like dimensions or how, exactly,the second row seats are going to work except that they won't fold flat.

3. Elon has stated that the X will be a better SUV than the S is a sedan. With what we know, which is not much, that may not be a universal opinion.

What are people left to do?

Those whose primary interest is in seating capacity have heard nothing to be disappointed about yet .
Those who anticipated that the production X would have more cargo carrying capacity than the Model S in addition to the extra seating, in the absence of more information, are left feeling disappointed with what little they know.

The state of things will become clear on the 29th when real information is finally forthcoming.

vandacca | 19 september 2015

jarbet3539 writes: where are you'll getting info on how many have been called? I am getting nothing from the company.

Tesla is not going to provide any information regarding reservation holders and how many have been asked to configure. The only information they will provide is that which is required by the SEC in their end-of-quarter reports, which will be how many cars are built and how many are shipped.

There is an obvious interest for reservation holders to determine how many have been called so that we can get an idea when our number will be up. We are discussing that information amongst ourselves within this forum at TMC.

carlk | 19 september 2015

@george Tesla also clearly showed in order pages in 2012, 2013 and 2014 that the performance model can be ordered with a single motor that gives you 427hp for 4.2 sec 0-60 acceleration. Then they dropped ball in late 14' that you can only buy one with 691hp dual motor and 3.2s or even 2.8s 0-60. No they did not drop the ball. They can make a lot of progress in three years, or less, and they will. From what we know the new seat is already an improvement over the old thin foldable bench seat if you have not noticed it yet. You have to think ouside the box like Tesla always do and accept unconventional but better design. Otherwise you should not have anything to do with Tesla.

carlk | 19 september 2015

@jarbet3539

Just curious are you an US sig reservation holder?

Gwgan | 19 september 2015

@grant10k, just to avoid misinformation, a forum name is only requested by the tracker site to help you claim your own info if you had previously made it public and the site organizers had scraped it into the new site. The email can be any email unrelated to one already in use.

@jarbet3539, our only source of information are posts by future owners on public sites (TMC, Reddit, here) and/or entries in the tracker which might otherwise not be announced in a forum. All we know is someone volunteered a number; we don't know if it's the highest or even if it's not a ruse, but this is an enthusiasts community so at least I am willing to take it at face value.

jarbet3539 | 19 september 2015

sorry.. I meant my take on the model x tracker. I prefer not to use it.

georgehawley.fl.us | 19 september 2015

@carlk: I have made my peace with the Model X as an excellent 7 seater. Cargo room is not a big deal to me at this stage of my life. Tesla has done an outstanding job on the Model S but they are not perfect. No one is. Why the secrecy about MX details at a time when they are asking Sig. reservation holders to order the $132K car on faith? I don't get it. They don't seem to have much to gain by this but they are frustrating many customers by withholding the details. It would be different if they first had a production reveal and then opened the door for orders but they are doing it the other way around.

rossRallen | 19 september 2015

Right, @George. I don't understand the behavior of Tesla Marketing either. Marketing must own the message, Tesla has let the message go into free-fall and for no good reason I can possibly think of.

I'd be surprised if 10-20 of the Sigs have not been bought under assumed (or their employee's) names by Tesla's competitors. That gives their Marketing staff access even to the Private threads of the Forum, and I'm sure they are scratching their heads as well. At least these trolls will see the loyalty and faith people have in Tesla even while they express their concerns and frustrations.

R.EV.olution.Qc | 20 september 2015

With Model X, Elon's objective were:
1- 4 wheel drive power train
2- 7 adults seating comfortably with getting in and out easily
3- large cago space (for whatever it means).

To me, the prime objective/challenge was seating 7 adults comfortably. This objective is clearly and fully met.

As for cargo space, this objective is more to fold flat the third row and there will never be enough cargo space to please everyone.

So for me, Model X has achieved its key objectives and it is vey unique on that perspective of seating 7 adults. Can't wait to have my X in my driveway.

jarbet3539 | 20 september 2015

does anyone have any e mail address to the executives of tesla? I cant find any. I have tried using some first.last names at teslamotors.com and every one has been returned.

rossRallen | 20 september 2015

Try elonmuskoffice@teslamotors.com

Let us know if you get a reply.

carlk | 20 september 2015

@george

Why the secrecy about MX details at a time when they are asking Sig. reservation holders to order the $132K car on faith?

Because it can. Ok a little tongue in cheek but that is also a true statment. San Jose Mercury News has an article today about the anticipation of the X release. It interviewed a few people who have waited 3 years for the X release and they are all happy about it. Let me quote a paragraph in this article here. you can figure out if it makes sense.

Mark Waxman, chief marketing officer for consultant CBIZ in San Jose, said Tesla is one of the few companies to create "an 'aura of exclusivity' which makes a waiting list acceptable." Managed correctly, he added, it builds excitement.

Making everyone to wait for the 9/29 unveiling could be part of the "managed correctly" scenario. Can you imagine any other companies, even much bigger ones, got so much anticipation and publicity for a new product release? Apple is the only one I can think of.

It's not that people have to buy the car sight unseen. Tesla does allow sig reservation to downgrade to regular reservation. It is those people's choice when they want to be the exclusive few who can own and drive the car before everyone else does. They are fully capable of deciding what will make them happy. You don't need to feel sorrow for them.

grant10k | 20 september 2015

"It's not that people have to buy the car sight unseen. Tesla does allow sig reservation to downgrade to regular reservation."

Beyond that, they don't have to downgrade. They are allowed to hold off for a little while and still get their signature car.

jarbet3539 | 21 september 2015

a Lot of companies in history have pushed arrogance too far and found themselves flash in the pans. Tesla is not the only car company now with all electric luxury cars. This arrogance can only take you so far then your gone as so many companies are in history who felt they are beyond the system. Customer car is the only thing that keeps any company in business. I hope they don't learn this the hard way. GM sure did. Blockbuster sure did. They did't keep up with the competition and serve the customer's needs. This kind of arrogance is self destructive for sure. Trump is learning that now as his ratings are dropping like a rock.

Does anyone know any e mail addressed inside the company? I would like to send e mails out.

NumberOne | 21 september 2015

This forum is most certainly not the place to post an e-mail address for any one at tesla. Perhaps a limited access thread, but not an open one. The spam bots are always working, and if Tesla wanted to have lots of irrelevant messages to go to their executives, on which they have to spend time that could otherwise be productive, they certainly would have a contact page listing all of them. @jarbet3539 I am not referring to you, but the general public all over the world.

carlk | 21 september 2015

I'm extremely disappointed that jarbet3539 still does not want to tell us if he's an US sig reservation holder after dozens of posts asking how to communicate with Tesla. How could people help if they don't know what is your problem?

Mel. | 21 september 2015

Any idea what country Jarbet is located?

carlk | 21 september 2015

He did not want to say but he apparently is not a native English speaker. He never said if his reservation number is up for configuaration either but from the misinformation in his posts apparently it is not either.

Ankit Mishra | 21 september 2015

@george
We cant be sure that Sig owners are ordering in blind faith. I read in some thread that they are given a secret no. to which they can direct all of their questions. Also since X is built on S platform, there are not so many surprises expected that could spoil Sig owners experience. They already love S.

Red Sage ca us | 21 september 2015

jarbet3539: Arrogance? Ah, joy! One of my personal hot-button subjects.

It's right up there with, "I don't like your attitude!" Seriously? My attitude? I'm here to HELP you. There's no reason for me to get out of bed every day if not to help people. But YOU still have to make the decision, and take responsibility for it! Helping you does NOT mean that I do it for you!

But I digress...

Arrogance? Dude. It is arrogant to say you can do something, that you cannot do... That you will not do... That you have no intention of doing.

It isn't arrogance if you can actually do it. That is called confidence. Look it up.

Comparing Tesla Motors to companies that were once on top and lost focus on their products, competition, and customers is not only presumptuous, it is also rather premature. Tesla is perceived as a leader in EVs by many people. That perception will surely change as viable competition arrives, but that is not only expected, but welcomed. Not as a hindrance, but as a rallying point by which they can be driven to further improve their products. That way they can both counter and compliment products offered by others.

Your pitiful attempt at prescient prognostication is plum apt to be proven perfectly incorrect, publicly imprudent, positively imprecise, and incapable of predicting Tesla Motors' fate. (Say that five times fast!)

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