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S85 OR THE S85P ? HELP!

S85 OR THE S85P ? HELP!

I am about to order a model s, but I can’t decide whether to go for the s85 or the s85p. Both models I will have fully equipped with any of the possible options given.
Because there is a significant difference in pricing I am interested in your opinion which model to choose.

Thereby, if I will decide to buy the s85p, will the “Performance Plus Package” actually have an added value? Have any of your bloggers driven both models and noticed any differences?

Finally, If there are any Dutch bloggers reading this, who bought/ordered a model s, could you please inform me which supplier you have chosen to install a charging station at your home? There are so many options to choose from. I live in an apartment building having a parking spot in the basement garage. I am aware of the fact Tesla providing charging stations yet I am looking at the sustainable aspect of having other neighbors using the station as well.

I look forward hearing your advice!

Thank you

Kind regards,

Sarah

mumanoff | 1 juli 2013

My order is going in on July 7th for Performance without the Plus. Coming out of Audi TTRS. Not sure if added cost is warranted but its not always a matter of cost. Good luck.

mumanoff | 1 juli 2013

By the way, what color did you opt for?

SamO | 1 juli 2013

The dirty down-low on the difference between 85, P85 and P85+:

85 - largest battery

P85 - performance inverter, air shocks standard, performance motor (hand winding)

P85+ - all P85 + race handling and offset rear suspension to improve turning and acceleration (tire size increased). + 5% improved range.

You WILL burn the tires off this car every 6-10,000 miles if you aren't careful.

Best value, in terms of future collectibility is the P85+.

Best overall value is a fully loaded 60. With the ability to swap, you ensure ability to upgrade for long trips. And upgrade to the next larger battery size (100, 120, 150) that will be available in 3-7 years.

Bighorn | 1 juli 2013

@Sarah
It sounds like you haven't decided amongst the three, S or P or P+. The only significant straight line acceleration difference you'll see is between the S and the Ps. I don't think the P vs P+ will be significantly different. I chose the P+ for two main reasons. I've always sought the top-end model and biggest engine, but sometimes compromised because there is usually a fuel efficiency penalty. No real penalty here for 4 second performance--that's just amazing to me. I chose the P+ over P, and I've never driven either, because of peoples' concerns over the suspension in the stock P. Why would Tesla bring an update to market so soon if they didn't realize there was improvement to be had. Even Elon insisted that his personal car have upgraded components for improved handling.

You're welcome to try mine any time you'd like--ETA July 20;)

Fred O | 1 juli 2013

I chose the non performance because it has plenty of performance. It is much much faster than any car I owned before. I could not convince myself to spend another €15k let alone the extra €6.6k on the plus kit.
Plenty of stories on this forum from people who experienced both 85, P85 and P85+.

I have not chosen a wall outlet yet but at the moment I'm inclined to get Cohere. They seem very experienced. I'll go for the 3-phase 16A option mentioned in their leaflet which will recharge an empty battery in 8.5 hours. I did not order the twin charger.

sarah.k. | 1 juli 2013

Mumanoff: I think about the pearl white.

SamoSam: Thank you for your clear explanation. About the possibility of upgrading from a 60 battery to a newer battery; I will be driving at least 125 miles every day and I am not afraid to challenge the speeding limits. This why I do prefer to have that extra range, which the 85 battery provides.

Bighorn: I haven’t decided yet, that is correct. I just have difficulties choosing due to the fact that it seems the s85 (fully equipped) doesn’t inferior the s85p based on handling. I haven’t heard/read any theories treading this subject. The test ride I experienced was in a fully equipped s85p+. I was immediately sold on the model s. The only thing left is the assessment of the model differences.

sarah.k. | 1 juli 2013

Fred O: These stories you said there are plenty of, I am trying to find. Thank you for your comment and the link to Cohere.eu.

SamO | 1 juli 2013

@Sarah.k

Are you sure that you drove the S85+ at your test drive? These vehicles only became available ~6 weeks ago, and none were in Europe.

Do I have bad information?

petero | 1 juli 2013

Sarah. It all comes down to your wants and needs versus what makes sense.

I would be interested in knowing what car you are currently driving and how you characterize your driving style (highly aggressive, fast, average/normal, or passive). Also, have you driven an “S,” if so was it an 85 or P85? What did you think, like-dislike, etc.

AmpedRealtor | 1 juli 2013

@ Sarah,

I originally wanted the S85 with most of the options, sans 21" wheels due to the accelerated wear and replacement costs. Then I realized that I would regret not having spent the additional $12,000 (based on my particular config) for the Performance version. I stayed with the 19" wheels, however, because I want my tires to last 20,000-30,000 miles and to keep ongoing costs to a minimum. The last thing I wanted was to feel any regrets after I bought this car, and the Performance upgrade was something that kept nagging at me.

My view of the P+ option is that it's great for those who want the absolute best performance, don't mind replacing tires frequently, and who tend to drive aggressively or like to take their cars to the track. I am not one of those people, so the P+ was overkill. Also, without the P+ upgrade, 21" wheels on any Model S will result in reduced range due to the fact that the 21" tires are not low rolling resistance and have much more surface area touching the road. That equates to more friction and reduced range, so keep this in mind.

I think it all comes down to what you expect from the vehicle, your driving style, etc.

petero | 1 juli 2013

AmpedRealtor. Please clarify did you order an S85 or P85 with 19" wheels?

martijn | 1 juli 2013

@Sarah
Check http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/forumdisplay.php/118-Belgium-and-the-Neth...
You will find lost of info, and are welcome to post your questions.

AmpedRealtor | 1 juli 2013

@ petero, yes I ordered my P85 with 19" wheels.

sarah.k. | 1 juli 2013

SamoSam: My mistake It was the s85p in which I had the opportunity to test drive. This took place in Eindhoven.

petero: My current car is tuned Mercedes ML 420 CDI. My driving style aggressive and fast. Always in a hurry.
I drove the p85. It was a test drive of 30 minutes. It was amazing, not to be compared with any other car. Most definitely not to be compared with my Mercedes.
The only dis-like is the charging. It takes time.

AmpedRealtor: I can really relate to your comment. This is exactly why I wanted the comments and opinions of others.
I am almost certain I will choose the s85p. The only question left is whether to add the plus package.
My opinion: The 19” size wheels and their performance can’t compete against the looks of the 21” wheels.

eAdopter | 1 juli 2013

I drove (some would say abused) a loaner P85 last week. Unless you plan to race it or simply want bragging rights, I think the P85 has more power than anyone will use frequently so the extra expense may be a waste.

Racing (and bragging) can get boring when you win every time ;)

If you use the extra power regularly, be prepared to buy tires every 2k-3k miles (not 6k-10k as others suggested). If you don't plan to use it, then what's the point?

I've now driven a 40/60, 85, and P85 and, as much as I love torque and HP, would not buy the P85 unless money is no object. If that's your situation then go for it (and purchase tires in bulk).

P85_Norway | 1 juli 2013

@SamoSam

Yes you have bad information.
I saw the P85+ in the Teslastore in Oslo last week.

sarah.k. | 1 juli 2013

Martijn: Thank you for that link!!

carlf9121 | 1 juli 2013

@sarah.k
Unless you prefer a harsher ride and can accept more road noise vibrating into the cabin due to the tighter suspension on the P85+, I'd stick with the P85. I have a fully loaded P85 and with the 21" wheels, the road noise is more apparent than with the 19" on the demo car. It's very tempting everytime I get onto the freeway entrance here in CA to feel that rush when you get thrown into the driver's seat from time zero acceleration but I keep reminding myself the $$$$$ for new sets of tires and that squelches my urge for the few second thrill :-). Ran into so many MS owners at the Fremont SC switching out their tires, some as low as 5,000 miles from the hard acceleration. Enjoy whatever MS version you pick. It's amazing.

erik | 1 juli 2013

Hi Sarah,

Orderd the P85, but as captain slow's halfwitted nephew, not for the power. I plan on it being the last car i(47) will ever buy/drive. So it better have the best infrastructure currently available to deal with the 300kw pack in 8 years to come :-)

Basically, if you have the cash, spend it on this car.

Gr. Erik

SamO | 1 juli 2013

@P85_Norway

Thanks for the information. I still have not driven the P+.

@sarah.k

Thanks for the update. The reason I asked is to gauge how much of an improvement you'd notice. My guess (based on what I've read here and on the TMC website) is that the P+ will be better in acceleration, handling, cornering and stopping. But that the difference will only be noticeable to very few people. Including yourself.

Kimscar | 1 juli 2013

I will be buying my Tesla for a delivery date of July 2014. My train of though is to buy the 85P and on the S85 with the 19 inch wheels.
1. 19 inch wheels because lower road noise and cost and frequency of replacement. I test drove the S85 with 19 inch rims and that was fine. Looks good enough but the 21 inch look better.
2. The acceleration on the S85 was pretty good but if you want bragging rights and I bet you'll feel the difference then you go for the P85. For me I will be keeping the car 10 to 12 years and if I divide the cost difference between the two versions over that time it doesn't cost that much more a month.
3. One possible monkey wrench is insurance. My preliminary look at that with my company saying Tesla $100,000.00 was reasonable. I have read on this site great rates for the car and horribly high rates. In fact it is amazing at the different costs mentioned. So when the day comes to order and if I have a good rate then it's the performance version for me.

I'm 58 1/2 now that's why July of 2014. I will be 59 1/2 and no penalty on pulling a little of retirement money to add to cash for buy for me.

eAdopter | 1 juli 2013

@Kimscar
Good point regarding insurance. My current insurer won't insure a P85 or P85+, only the non-performance versions.

AmpedRealtor | 1 juli 2013

@ Kimscar, Geico insures the P85. I received a quote for 100/300/100 coverage, no medical, no windshield, no roadside, yes loaner car up to $30/day, $500 deductible all around was under $700 for six months. I'm 44 yo w/ domestic partner who will be a 2nd driver on the policy. Progressive was even lower at $600 for six months, and they don't differentiate between Model S flavors and will accept a P85 VIN number. In hindsight I will probably get windshield coverage because Model S windshields cost over $900 each and I doubt they can be purchased from anyone but Tesla.

herkimer | 1 juli 2013

I went with the Model S 85, and used the difference to get all the options and the service plan and extended warranty.

I now have 3000 miles on the car, and love every minute of driving it. Believe me, it has plenty of power, plenty of acceleration, still more than nearly every gas car. Handles beautifully and is the most responsive car I have ever driven, in every sense. With electric torque, regen braking and the one pedal driving, its not only going fast, but it is also going slow that is amazing in this car! So supple, quiet, and responsive in all situations and traffic. This is part of the magic.

With the sunroof down on a summer night, its just not the acceleration that completes the beauty of the night, but the smooth, ultra responsive handling and quiet power and at low speeds. The car is a revelation, even without the P or the P+.

Since I don't need to race, the S85 has all the power and torque I need. The 19's are smooth, quiet, and save on tire replacement.

Just an alternate view for your consideration.

Kimscar | 1 juli 2013

@AmpedRealtor
That would be fantastic at the rates you quoted me. I have the money lined up for the performance 85. The only thing that i can see that could change that is the insurance. When I get the car next July I will be 59 1/2, married. I live in Southern Calif. in the Orange County area. I'm retired and would probably be putting around 8,000 miles a year.

AmpedRealtor | 1 juli 2013

Yes, my rates were quoting 20,000 miles annually. I'm also in Phoenix, so your rates may be higher in OC.

petero | 1 juli 2013

sarah.k. imherkimer said it beautifully. The S85 is a quantum leap in all around performance from your ML. I agree the 21s look nicer but the 19s make the most sense. Two other, small consideration is the smoothness of the roads you constantly traverse and how much snow/ice falls on these roads.

A common trait of Model S owners/reservation holders is the need to check off every option box. Reading the forum posts there many that go way overboard in aftermarket upgrades (stereo, armor, electronics, interior, wheels, etc.). Some times it pays to hold off and see and drive a few different cars. When I sold/leased new cars I always asked my customer to drive the least powerful model first, so they had a realistic yardstick to measure performance. I always tried to sell the least expensive car that fulfilled my customers needs - not the most expensive. It is probably very hard to be satisfied with an 85 if you have driven a P85 or a P85+ first. Just my 2cents.

For the record you may wish to compare the pearl and solid whites, side by side, in the light of day

cloroxbb | 2 juli 2013

@sarak k

Pretty sure you cannot buy a signature series Model S anymore... :)

ronovan_mcnabb | 2 juli 2013

@sarah.k

My previous car was the current model BMW M3 with the V8 engine. Even though on paper it is a faster car than my S85, in real-world driving my S85 actually feels faster.

I was really worried that I would regret not getting the P85 since I'm all about getting what's the top of the line, but I'm really happy with my choice because even though I tend to drive quite fast I'm still not ever really pushing my car to its limit.For me all of the extra performance I'd get from the P85 would mostly be wasted since I'll never take my car out on the track, and my S85 is fully loaded so I have everything else the car has to offer.

That being said if I got my car before I had kids I would have gotten the P85+. If the cost is not an issue for you then of course go and get the P85+, otherwise I think you'll be perfectly happy with the S85 like I am.

S4WRXTTCS | 2 juli 2013

The S85 because the P85+ has way too many compromises to be an ideal car long term for someone who doesn't view performance as essential, or has a history of performance driving (going to the track, or just being someone who likes speed and fast acceleration).

Hell even I might settle on an S85 despite all my previous cars being high performance versions. I say that because I don't think Tesla got the P85 right. They realized it wasn't quite right in the handling department and instead of fixing it they came out with the plus version. Only the plus version stiffened everything up. They didn't give us any sort of adjustable suspension like the other manufactures do (Porsche, Audi (in some models).

Plus the S models are better than Tesla admits on paper. In my area they don't even let you test drive the standard ones because they like pushing people into the high end without it being a fair fight.

S4WRXTTCS | 2 juli 2013

@cloroxbb - My interpretation is that she is in Europe, and you can still get the signature edition in Europe.

dirk.saenen | 2 juli 2013

@S4WRXTTCS : she is in Europe (Netherlands), but the Sig's in Europe as sold-out - long time ago.

cmlaff | 2 juli 2013

Sarah,
Congrats on your commitment. I have a Sig 85 non perf with 19" wheels that I received in November and am pushing 10,000 miles. I can echo the comments of others that this car has plenty of power and unless you are often accelerating 0-60 or 0-100 I'm not sure that you need the extra power UNLESS money is of no object OR your personality is such that you will forever regret settling for less. I agree that the 21" wheels look good but you will only see them when you walk up to your car or you're creating envy among others. The real joy comes from the acceleration from 20 or 30 - 80+ MPH. Now that's something that you will use and appreciate, and be afflicted with a severe case of PTSS (Post Tesla Silly Smile).
Enjoy your car!
C

JaneW | 2 juli 2013

If you are used to high-performance cars and autobahn speeds go for the full package. P85+ with 21" wheels will be a true performing sports sedan like a BMW M series. We have the P85 and could not order the performance plus package when we ordered. Though the P85 is a very good car, I'm still sorry not to get the full performance.

cloroxbb | 2 juli 2013

She probably just means (model)S85.

wcalvin | 2 juli 2013

Most present-day luxury sedans have twice the horsepower that they need, Tesla included. The P's are just extra money for a slight increment in bragging rights. If you are not big on bragging, why bother?

stimeygee | 2 juli 2013

I have an S85. I test drove the P85 twice and thought the acceleration was almost too much. The S85 still passes at highway speeds like no other car I've ever driven. Not even close.

The only time I've a teeny bit wanted the P85 is when I was at a stop light next to a Ferrari.

erik | 3 juli 2013

And no charging station at home needed i think. Just a regular(or maybe "krachtstroom") outlet for nighttime charging. Provided you have a garage or at least a carport.

VEnUB | 3 juli 2013

S85 does have plenty of performance. You know you need the P+ if you have testosterone oozing from your ears. If you don't mind paying for tires more often. If you like testing your limits in a $115,000 dollar car you need the P+. I fyou are the occasional speeder the S85 is plenty.
Then there is the collectibility factor.

Good luck deciding.

teslamonkey | 14 juli 2013

I am still deciding between an S85 and a P85. The difference in monthly financed cost would be about $165. The test care I drove was a Signature so I assume this is more akin to the P85 in performance - Correct?

phat78boy | 14 juli 2013

I've driven both the P85 and P85+. It seems I'm in the minority, but I don't not believe the + is worth the money. It's handling is a marginally better and I believe is more a byproduct of wider tires. I'm sure a better stabilizer bar helps some too, but are wider tires and a stabilizer bar with 10k? I don't believe so.

The + package came across to me as insulting in some ways. It seemed to be another attempt to nickel and dime those who can afford it.

Chunky Jr. | 14 juli 2013

If you ever plan to sell your Model S some day, I would assume the 85P will have higher resale value.

carlk | 14 juli 2013

@phat78boy There are people who have use of the extra capability and there people who do not. There are people who think the extra capability is worth the cost and there are people who do not. I appreciate Tesla spend the time and resource to develop the new system and it's not an insult to me.

petero | 14 juli 2013

sarah K and AmpedR. Just my opinion, if you prefer the 19" wheels I suggest you consider ordering the S85 and not the P85.

AmpedRealtor | 14 juli 2013

@ petero - why, because the additional performance of the P85 is reserved only for those with 21" wheels? Oh my goodness... some of us like to have power, performance and long tire life. A P85 w/ 19" wheels is still that much faster and more powerful than a S85 w/ 19" wheels. Getting every bell and whistle just because you can does not mean that it is appropriate for your driving style or needs. I have tailored my specific vehicle to what I feel is important, fits with my driving style and budget. I prefer a more comfortable ride and do not have it in my budget to replace tires every 6,000 or so miles. I drive 20,000+ miles a year, so need to be a bit more practical. I'll take the longer mileage of the 19" wheels along with the added acceleration and torque of the P. It's a perfect fit for me.

erici | 14 juli 2013

I've noticed at least two comments on this thread where a specific configuration is being chosen with plans to upgrade it to a larger battery pack down the road.

The company is saying that you won't be able to upgrade to a larger battery pack. So that's a wrench in the plans.

Why are they saying "no"? I don't get it. Have they explained why?

nomoDinos @ca.us | 14 juli 2013

@AR - +1 definitely not getting 21's with my P85 for the nicer ride add a daily commuter and hate changing tires so frequently, but love that extra little zip on the P :)

phat78boy | 15 juli 2013

@carlk

The insult to me was that they created a 10k package that could be done for about 4-5k aftermarket. The 21" rims alone have gone up 3-4 different times.

I understand you charge what people will pay, but 3 increases in less than a year? That's where I feel a little used.

phat78boy | 15 juli 2013

@petero

I would, I actually have, go with the P85 and 19" rims. Should you decide you want better handling, it can easily be done later for far less then the cost of the + package and 21" rims.

viranjit | 15 juli 2013

Sarah,
I have a P85 with 21 inch wheels since the bigger wheel option did not cost extra with the Performance model when I ordered it. I had a 2002 BMW M5 before this car.

For an aggressive driver, I think the Performance version is more rewarding to drive. The active suspension that comes with the P is also good to have.

The 21 inch wheels do go through tires faster than 19's, it seems. They may not be worth the extra $4000. The Performance Plus package requires the 21 inch wheel option in addition to the $6500 for the P-Plus option so you are looking at a cost differential of $10,500.

The P-Plus would be great for track use, but the Model S has thermal management limitations on the track. From my own experience and others who have taken it on the track, the battery or motor or power electronics (we don't know which one) heats up after a couple of (3 mile) laps and the car limits the power output to 160kW (about half of what the P85 can deliver).

Given all the above, a P85 with 19 inch wheels would probably be the right choice for an aggressive street driver who doesn't want to replace tires every year.

Just my 2 cents.
Do let us know which one you finally choose, though.

Viranjit

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