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Same home charging station for LEAF and Model S?

Same home charging station for LEAF and Model S?

Hi guys, sorry I'm a noob to EVs and am thinking of the Tesla Model S and the LEAF as a 2nd car. Question is, can I install one charging station in my garage that would be compatible for both? Confused about the SAE standards here...

Thanks

nickjhowe | 20 november 2012

Not sure what the connectors the Leaf uses.

Most Model S users are choosing either the 220V NEMA 14-50 4-pin outlet or the Tesla High Power Wall Connector (HPC). It is also possible to charge using a normal 110V outlet, or using the 'J1722' adapter that many public charging stations use.

The Model S has a proprietary connector. The HPC plugs directly into the car; for all other options it is necessary to connect the Tesla-supplied proprietary cable into a connector and thence into one of the outlets listed above.

Jolinar | 20 november 2012

Ordinary 240V/40A (I guess you are from USA) outlet is fine for both if you do not want to pay for faster 20kW Twincharger. However, you will have to use cable (which is included in both cars), but some people rather have two cables - one at home and one in the car, or one mounted charging station at home and cable in the car...

If you'll decide to mount home charging station it woun't be compatible for both cars without adapter. Nissan uses J1772 connector, while Tesla has its own proprietary connector (plus adapter J1772 -> Tesla).

We have Nissan Leaf at home and we have mounted charging station (3.3kW) for it. When Model S arrives, we'll install HPWC (20kW high power wall connector) for Model S too (since we are from Europe, I'm very courious how will it work with 3-phase). In combination with 20kW Twincharger it's faster and more convenient than untangling cable every day :-)

It depends on you and your budget :)

Epley | 20 november 2012

I have a friend who has a Leaf--the standard cable it came with was for a 110 outlet only. He had to have a company in CA modify the cable to take a higher voltage/amperage cable. The Leaf doesn't come with 14-50 capability out of the box, which is weird...

jat | 20 november 2012

I have a LEAF and a J1772 Level 2 charger. The Model S comes with an adapter so you can charge it off a J1772 dock. However, the LEAF only draws 20A steady-state (30A peak when it starts, presumably filling capacitors), so you would be charging your Model S quite slowly. You could get a higher-current J1772 charging dock (the spec goes to 70A I believe) and charge the Model S faster, and it would still work for the LEAF as it would only ask for the lower current.

Personally, I think you are better off getting another charging dock for the Model S -- you would have to remember to switch the cable to the other car (and 0-100% on the LEAF will take over 7 hours, so best done overnight). It wouldn't cost much to just get a NEMA 14-50 run, and you can program the LEAF to start charging after the Model S will be done so you don't need to increase capacity to your garage.

Like @Jolinar, I plan to install the HPWC for the Model S, even if I have to cap the charging rate at ~60A to be able to have the LEAF and Model S charging at the same time.

mrspaghetti | 20 november 2012

One advantage of going with the J1772 would be that you might be able to get one installed at your house at no cost to you through http://www.theevproject.com/index.php

cthiim | 9 januar 2013

Hello jat@jaet.org,

I also have a Leaf with a J1772 Level 2 charger in my garage.

When my Model S arrives, I am planning to sell my Leaf however.

I was hoping to keep my current charger and use the J1772 adapter, but you mentioned it would charge the Model S slowly. Any idea of how slowly? Removing the J1772 charger and installing a
NEMA 14-50 plug instead may be an expense I could avoid?

Thanks.

jat | 9 januar 2013

@cthim - assuming you have the Aerovironment EVSE wired as they recommend (using a 40A breaker), it is capable of supplying 30A. At 30A, you should charge at about 13mi/hr. If it can only supply 20A (some of the other chargers people have used for LEAFs), you should get about 10mi/hr.

Unless you are driving all day or can't charge overnight, it won't be a problem in either case. It will mean that after you come back from a long trip, you won't be able to back out again in your Tesla that night if you depleted the battery, as it will take overnight to recharge.

tork | 9 januar 2013

This is a minor issue but note that there will be no button on your charging cable to pop open the charging cover. That just means you'll have to get into the habit of opening up your charge port manually from the touchscreen each time you come home. You could probably train yourself to do it but on the other hand, you may find it to be a nuisance.

Brian H | 9 januar 2013

jat;
That's the same no matter what charger you have. A depleted battery needs recharging before you can go "back out again in your Tesla that night", but only for enough miles for that night. It doesn't have to be full for short trips!

cthiim | 9 januar 2013

Thank you Jat and Tork. Very informative. I'll probably keep my J1772 for charging my Model S. I'm already accustomed to opening my Leaf's charge port manually when arriving home each evening, so I'll be fine with using the touchscreen.

stevedar | 9 januar 2013

By my calculation EVSE outputting 30A should put out about 7.2 Kw which should add about 22 miles range/hr compared to the mobile connector's max of 31 miles/hr.

laalan | 9 januar 2013

I ran #6 wire to my LEAF J1772 Aerovironment charger. Was thinking about upgrading the breaker to 50 amp and connecting the 14-50 and the Aerovironment on the same circuit since only one will be used at a time.

Any issues with having both on the same circuit that anyone knows? Has anyone done it?

jat | 9 januar 2013

@BrianH - yes, but if you are charging at 80A, you don't have to wait long to be able to go someplace. If you are charging at 20A, you aren't going to fully refill the battery overnight, but unless you are making back-to-back out of town trips that won't matter.

@stevedar - the 31mi is ideal miles, not rated miles. When you consider slower rates when the battery is nearly full (as it will be if you are just recharging after a daily commute), and you will get less. But anyway, it will be plenty to recharge a typical day's usage overnight.

jat | 9 januar 2013

@laalan - yes, by code you can't have multiple devices on a high-current circuit, they have to each have a dedicated breaker. You could move the Aerovironment charger to a 14-50 plug and plug it into the outlet (though their manual says it has to be hard-wired, I think that would be ok by code --- but I am not an electrician).

laalan | 10 januar 2013

Brilliant idea about converting it to a plug in!

laalan | 12 januar 2013

Aerovironment's response: ( although I don't see the harm as my warranty is over)

Regarding your interest in converting your charging dock into a plug-in unit, the mechanical workings inside our EVSEs are much more complicated than just the difference in their cords.

All of our products are built in an Underwriters Laboratory (UL) certified factory. The Plug-in and the hardwired versions use two different control boards. The EVSE-RS was designed for a hard-wire installation with specific circuit requirements which the Printed Circuit Board expects and tests. Only the EVSE-PI (Plug-in) model has the right board for a NEMA 6-50 plug fitting. Altering an EVSE-RS to fit it with a plug is an incomplete modification.

Modifying the original product also voids its UL certification. As a result AV can not warranty a modified product and ny modifications to the unit it will nullify your warranty.

DTsea | 12 januar 2013

why don't you just install a nema 14-50 and call it good?

stevenmaifert | 12 januar 2013

I'm a Leaf and Model S owner too. I didn't install a Level 2 charger for the Leaf, as the Level 1 trickle charger that came with it is working out fine, but I still would like to be able to charge if from the UMC that came with the Model S.

Trekker56 | 12 januar 2013

@stevenmaifert - how long does it take to charge the LEAF using the 110V trickle charger from empty to full?

jat | 12 januar 2013

@laalan - there is nothing to modify in the EVSE -- you wire two hots and a neutral to it, and you can either run the other end of the wire to a breaker panel or to a 14-50 plug. Now, they may well not have it UL listed for a pluggable cord (which requires that the cord be able to support the weight of the device, among other things).

The only thing I can imagine is that it checks the ground and essentially is a GFCI, but as long as you wire up the ground on the 14-50 plug (leave the neutral unconnected, as the EVSE doesn't have any 120V loads) that shouldn't matter -- in the worst case, after you plug it in you might have to reset it.

Personally, if an electrician said it didn't violate local code, I would go ahead and do it anyway.

@Trekker56 - about 20 hours :).

stevenmaifert | 12 januar 2013

@Trekker56 - Although I've never done it, the owner's manual says 21 hours from empty to full. We rarely put more than 40 miles per day on the Leaf, so the overnight recharge with the trickle charger works out for us.

laalan | 12 januar 2013

Being an electrical engineer, I am not worried about the UL issues. I am just trying to avoid running new #6 back to the panel when I already have #6 15 feet from the Aerovironment J1772 and only want the J1772 as an emergency backup for the other LEAF once the S arrives.

My biggest worry really is that the TESLA isn't too big for the garage opening although I imagine that shouldn't be an issue.

frisbin | 13 januar 2013

I have charged my Model S on standard LEAF's Level2 home EVSE.

Delivers 30A. Works just fine with J1772 adapter for Model S.

Alex K | 14 januar 2013

@frisbin | JANUARY 13, 2013: I have charged my Model S on standard LEAF's Level2 home EVSE. Delivers 30A. Works just fine with J1772 adapter for Model S.

Same here. But I decided to unplugged the Blink charger and used its NEMA 6-50 plug to charge the Model S quicker. I got a NEMA 6-50 adapter while waiting for my HPWC to be delivered.

jat | 15 januar 2013

BTW, I just hooked up my Model S to the LEAF's Aerovironment EVSE to make sure I knew how to hook up J1772 and that it will work, since I am about to go out of town where my only way back will be charging on J1772 (the hotel I am staying at has EV chargers, and there are other chargers around as well).

The Model S was able to charge at 30A, getting back 16mi/hr (rated).

laalan | 27 januar 2013

I am surprised the LEAF charger doesn't pick up 24 miles/hr of charge as my LEAF picks up 12 miles per hour of charge at half that amperage.

tranhv68 | 27 januar 2013

I have both a Leaf and a Model S. I bought the Leaf first so I installed a GE Wattstation with a Nema 6-50 plug. I used the 240V 30A dryer breaker, which I don't use as my dryer is gas. The charger on the 2012 Leaf is only 3.3KW so it only draws 16A.

I had the electrician use the 240V 50A stovetop breaker for my NEMA 14-50. The Tesla is able to charge at the full 40A to max out the 10KW onboard charger.

By using the circuits that I wasn't using anyways, I did not have to upgrade my panel and now can push 56A in my garage at once and take advantage of the super off peak rates for both cars between MN and 6AM. This will be enhanced when I can program the Model S to charge between MN and 6AM.

You can probably use the GE Wattstation or some other Level 2 charger to charge your Model S, since it does come with the J1772 adapter. However, My model came with a 30A limit even if it was connected to a 50A circuit. Thus I would have to dial down the Amp Setting in the Tesla to 30A which would only give me 7KW per hour. In fact, since the Wattstation is connected to a 30A breaker, I would have to reduce the Tesla's Amp setting to 24A to keep things safe, giving me less than 6KW per hour.

In summary, it totally doable to use one charger for both, but it is much better to have a dedicated charger for each car.

RolfS | 27 januar 2013

I didn't want to be locked into a high-power Tesla-only solution for charging as I currently have a LEAF too - and will probably have other J1772-based vehicles in the future. Therefore, I ended up installing a ClipperCreek CS-100 at home to charge both my Model S Performance (with twin onboard chargers) and my LEAF. It's a pricey unit, but industrial strength and it will charge the Model S at a full 80A (19.2 kW) - though you do have to use the J1772 adapter with the Model S. I haven't found this to be even the slightest bit of an inconvenience, though. The CS-100 works great with all the plug-in vehicles I've tried it with. The only downside is the cord is *really* a beast and takes some hefting around. That's the price you pay for being able to charge at such high power, I guess.

Good luck!

jkirkebo | 28 januar 2013

If the current EVSE is hardwired, there might not be a neutral wire at all. If so, the 14-50 is not the correct plug to use. Use a 6-50 instead and get the correct adapter.

We Leafers always open the charge port from inside. I do not see that as a hassle at all, it's more or less muscle memory ;)

Even so, I do think the fob should be able to open the charge port. Personally I have no need for the function that lowers all the windows so it would be nice to be able to reprogram this to open the charge port door instead. We just need a simple swith on the settings screen for this, should be very easy to program.

jat | 28 januar 2013

@laalan - the LEAF only has a 3.3kW charger, so it can only use around 14A. It draws 16-17 steady-state (it hits 30A for 20 sec or so when it first starts charging).

stevenmaifert | 28 januar 2013

tranhv68@gmail.com - You don't have to dial down the setting to 30A. It will adjust automatically. If you dial it down, you have to remember to reset it the next time you charge at a higher rate. Ref: Owner's Guide Pg. 17.

peahl | 28 januar 2013

@AlexK
Where did you get the NEMA 6-50 from
Peter

peahl | 28 januar 2013

@AlexK
I mean where did you get the NEMA 6-50 adapter from?
Peter

nickjhowe | 28 januar 2013

I assume from Tesla - it is optional, and needed if you install 6-50 prior to getting HPWC

Alex K | 28 januar 2013

@pahlemann@seque... | JANUARY 28, 2013: I mean where did you get the NEMA 6-50 adapter from?

My Delivery Specialist brought it by. It was to be included with the car because I ordered the HPWC (which didn't ship with the car). Tesla providers the adapter because they recommend prewiring for the HPWC using a NEMA 6-50 socket.

peahl | 29 januar 2013

@AlexK
Thank you

laalan | 23 februar 2013

Connected my 14-50 today. Picked up the conduit at Home Depot and the #6 wire from an internet vendor (wireandcabletogo.com) . If only they would start making my red performance model

dsimon | 9 marts 2013

Over at a friends and wanted to use his LEAF charger but the Tesla won't recognize it. He has a EVSE Upgrade charger that will do 240V 16A: http://evseupgrade.com/

But even after dialing down the car to 16A and using the adapter the port is still blue. Any ideas?

GeekEV | 9 marts 2013

@dsimon - I haven't tried it myself, but from what I've the portable LEAF charger from Panasonic (modified or not) doesn't fully implement the J1772 spec and doesn't work with some cars. The standard wall mount unit from AV works just fine - it's what I use. Try posting/reading on mynissanleaf.com if you want to know more.

GeekEV | 9 marts 2013

...from what I've read... Boy, edit sure would be nice!

jat | 9 marts 2013

@GeekEV - the modified Nissan portable EVSE works fine with my Model S, but I'm not sure why you would use it instead of the Tesla Mobile Connector, which will charge faster.

brucetran126 | 19 marts 2013

@RolfS

I just bought the Clipper Creek CS-100 as well and just got it installed yesterday. I did it for the same reasons you did. J1772 is more compatible with many other cars in the future, including SAE combo. I noticed the Tesla Model S is charging at 74A and it says it is adding only 38 miles per hour. Is it what you are getting too? Should it get close 57 miles per hour? The battery was at 50% when I charged it.
Do you get 80A from the CS-100?

Duy

jat | 19 marts 2013

@tranduy126 - the Model S should get about 61 ideal miles at 80A @ 240V. If you are only getting 74A, that drops it to 56 ideal miles. Converting to rated miles, and that gets it to 49.

Then, you don't mention the voltage you are getting -- if it is less than 240V, scale it down from there. Finally, the Model S slows down charging as it gets near full. I haven't charged above 40A, but it starts dropping down the current the last hour or so of a standard charge, and I presume it may cut down from 74A even earlier.

Candy J. Lee | 19 marts 2013

I drive a Leaf, my wife gets to drive the Model S. We have a 2 car garage, on one side I have the Blink charger for my Leaf and on the other a plug in for the Tesla.
Rocke

brucetran126 | 1 april 2013

@jat@jaet.org

I am getting 240V/74A. I changed the settings to show energy instead of miles. It shows 18KW which is about right for 74A. I think when you set it to miles it shows actual vs ideal but maybe it also calculates it based on how much watts you use per mile and adjust it.

brucetran126 | 1 april 2013

use the clipper creek cs-100. It can charge the Model S at 74A and your leaf as well using the SAE

Duy

DC_POWRD | 12 august 2013

Is some type of manual transfer switch possible so I could switch between an outlet for the
MS or the J1772 for my now- sold Leaf. It seems a waste not to keep the AeroVironment after spending $2200 on it. Any thoughts?

shop | 12 august 2013

Why not just use your J1772 for charging your MS?

drshap26 | 27 august 2013

My Model S is coming in three weeks and I am installing a NEMA 14-50 in my garage. No need for supercharging as my daily commute is 8 miles to my daughter's school followed by 4 miles to my office and then 6 miles home. Fortunately our circuit box is only a few feet from the garage bay I plan to use for the Tesla so wiring should be no biggie. Here's the question; my office building has EV dedicated spaces with what appears to be a J1722 charge cord coming off the wall. Will the Tesla adapter allow me to plug the office cord into the car while I am at work? The building super hasn't got a clue. I can do all my charging at home of course but having the hook-up at work would basically reduce my energy cost for the car to zero. I get to work by nine and rarely leave before 5 so i'd have 7-8 hours of solid charge time during the day..even if the rate is a bit slower than the 240 volt 40 amp circuit at home.

Anybody out there with a similar situation?

jat | 27 august 2013

Yes, you can charge from J1772 just fine. Most J1772 chargers are 30A, so you should be able to get a minimum of 120 rated miles worth of charge at work.

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