the Top 3 big's....

the Top 3 big's....

Honeymoon seem to be over.
Issues are coming up.
Without complaining and still hoping that the S is as good as we all hope(d); here are my No,No's which if not addressed will lead me to walk away.....

1. Door handles
2. Sunroof bar
3. Creep

Sudre_ | 8 oktober 2012

Wow. Those are the top issues. Things are going good then.

mrspaghetti | 8 oktober 2012


Can you clarify - Do you already have the car and are having issues with the things listed? Or going by comments from others?

I tend to agree with Sudre_ on this. I can't speak for creep because I've had no exposure to it (and don't really care much about it). But I've seen the sunroof bar and I see no issues personally, and I'm not hearing about widespread issues with the door handles either.

vouteb | 8 oktober 2012

pure on the basis of what I am hearing/reading from others.

On the list for a SIG (UK)

but am curious what others think, I have no issues with the 'real' range, controls, looks(great), etc.

Backwards limited view was on my mind however.

David M. | 8 oktober 2012

I suspect he does not have the car yet, because "walking away" is an option. Funny, even today, those 3 items would be the least of my concerns. Seems to me that $5.75 /gallon gas in California would be keeping me on the Tesla "bus".

Personally, I can't wait to:
- Stop buying premium gasoline
- Have a better performing car with more tech
- Refuel at $10 per week (for a 300 mile range) or
- Refuel for free at a Tesla supercharging station (driving on sunlight)
I could go on and on.

vouteb | 8 oktober 2012

@David M :correct

vouteb | 8 oktober 2012

2David M. : How do you know I am a 'he'?


pbrulott | 8 oktober 2012

vouteb, please clarify, 2 weeks away from this forum and it seems I am already behind in the news.

1. Door handles, what's wrong with them? too slow, sticking?
2. Sunroof bar, i kind of get it. Did we see the sunshades already?
3. Creep? didn't they say that would be an OTA updgrade

vouteb | 8 oktober 2012

1. : see other topics
2 ugly big bar (and noisy?)
3 Hope so

mrspaghetti | 8 oktober 2012


1. whatever
2. Noisy by one person's posting. But is it really any more noisy than any other sunroof? Or was it just that one particular demo car? Hard to say. Certainly not something I'd be to anxious about unless there are other people corroborating.
3. No need to hope, they explicitly said this was getting addressed in an update.

mrspaghetti | 8 oktober 2012

And you can read my 'whatever' comment above as 'no comment'. Was not intending to mock concerns over the door handles, whatever they are. (Though I'm not concerned with them personally.)

archibaldcrane | 8 oktober 2012

I'm concerned with the door handles, both because door handles are not something that should be a problem in a car - it's the type of thing where if the problem persists, the Model S will start to get mocked as "Yeah, great car, except the doors don't open" and that would be annoying. They should work 100% of the time, period. Given that the standard for every other car is the door handles working 100% of the time, that's not too much to ask.

I too think the sunroof bar is inexplicably hideous, and given how nice that area looks in my wife's Jetta Sportwagen, I don't understand. I'm really not worried about rolling my 17" CoG 4500 lb. car. (I'm likely not getting the sunroof for this reason, so that solves my problem)

As a person currently driving a manual, I could care less about creep. I'm kinda shocked that a UK driver has this as his make-or-break issue, given how widespread manual transmissions are over there.

Epley | 8 oktober 2012

If you don't like the sunroof bar, why not get one without the sunroof? The black roof looks pretty good.

michael.bashta | 8 oktober 2012

Creep should be addressed with a Model S software update soon. :)

MandL | 8 oktober 2012

Only three days so far, but no problems with door handles. Sunroof bar is a non-issue for me (and likely still wouldn't be even if I had to sit in the back seat where I could see it). Lack of creep does take a little getting used to. I haven't driven in any particularly hilly areas, but it's not just like a manual transmission. With a clutch you can hold the car while you move your foot from the brake to the gas. Not so with this. From a stop on an incline you have to move your foot quick and you will still roll a bit. I guess you could use your left foot on the brake, but that's a lifetime of training to overcome.

Oaktowner | 8 oktober 2012

None of those concerns me at all.

I can see how creep would be useful in traffic, but I'm not in bumper to bumper traffic very often. I've owned several manual transmission cars, and I've never had an automatic with hill hold, so I don't hold my left foot as sacrosanct and am not above using it on the brake if I need to on a hill.

Biggest worry for me continues to be price -- concern that the 85 KWh model is the only one that will be practical enough, hold its value, etc. As someone who does not yet have a reservation, I'm quite keen to see how maintenance works out, and if after a year the early adopters are very satisfied with the value they're receiving for their maintenance dollar.

As far as the car itself, I don't believe there are any features that are "blockers" for me other than delayed-time charging, which I am quite confident will be addressed before I get a Model S.

Captain_Zap | 8 oktober 2012

I can comment on "the bar" on the pano roof. When test driving the car back in July I drove a car with wider bar and it seemed somewhat unrefined. Since then I saw another newer version and it was 100% better. It was much narrower and looked good. I didn't get to drive that car. You might go look at Tesla Motors Club for discussion about the panoramic roof performance from new owners. There are some extensive reviews there. From the ones I have read they seem to be very happy with the improvements. I recall one comment about it being surprisingly quiet.

Also there is discussion there at TMC about the creep update.

I'm not sure what aspect of the door handles you are refering to. That is being thorougly discussed at Tesla Motors Club too.

GLO | 8 oktober 2012

Drove a pano roof production model on Saturday and the bar was a non-issue for us. Door handles worked perfectly. Creep is an option on an upcoming software update but on flat ground the creep was a non-issue as the car did not roll one bit. I too have had many amnual transmission cars and see that as a non-issue. If it were me, I'd drop the pano roof (actually we are not getting the pano roof anyway). The car drove like a dream. Now my waiting frustation has gone to new heights after driving it for the 2nd time.

Kal-el | 8 oktober 2012

To me, the top 3 no no are:
1) Cost of service
2) No supercharger for 40kwh-
3) cost of service

vouteb | 8 oktober 2012

Thanks for your reactions, was hoping that alternative 'No,No's' might show up (Dealbreakers).

UK traffic (in/around London) is a nightmare so creep is kind of critical.

Range, price ext. are a given and I don t mention these, since those are the basics and if these are deal breakers, you should n t even consider this car.

Again, I haven t seen or driven the car(Unfortunately) but have set aside the funds for a SIG Performance full specs, so you can guess that it needs to be pretty perfect for that kind of money.

Captain_Zap | 8 oktober 2012

The 40kwh batteries just can't handle the supercharging so that isn't likely to change. (From an EE)

weeandthewads | 8 oktober 2012

This is still to early to tell. From all I have been reading the door handles are my biggest concern. If someone doesn't get the idea of how the handles work they are going to rip them as if they are mechanical.

Tomas | 8 oktober 2012

Door handles are a bit finicky, yes, but they are so cool it's worth it. I mean how many times a day do you actually use them. And, in any case, you can always go retro and use the fob to unlock the door.

Sunroof Bar. Not sure what that is. The sunroof is bit noisy when open, but hell, it's a huge hole in the roof of a car going 70 miles an hour. how could it not be?

Creep. I would love a little creep, but I am getting used to it.

My "complaints" (oh gwad, that sounds so harsh given that we are still ON our honeymoon... less than 500 miles) are:

1. The garage door remote sends multiple signals so the garage door go up, down, up, down; poor thing is going crazy. Using my old fashion hand held until they fix that.

2. The buttons on the steering wheel, to change the radio station, do not advance to the next programed station; rather, it advances to the next station on the dial(scan).... useless.

3. The stick with the cruise control is where the turn signal should be. Don't most people drive with their hands on the top of the steering wheel? With one's left hand on the wheel, at the 10:00 position, the turn signal should be where you can grab it with your baby finger. It is not.

4. The distortion on the bottom two inches of the windshield is annoying and may be contribution to my motion sickness.

5. I'm sure its more me than the car, but something about it is making me motion sick... even when i drive. Is anybody experiencing that? It could be the distortion of the windshield, the air suspension, the 21 inch rims.. can't figure it out. hopefully, i'll get used to it soon.

6. Range anxiety. I've had the Roadster for three years as second car so never really felt it. Now that I have given up my Prius, and I'm a two Tesla family, I'm starting to feel it a bit. I rarely drive very far, but I have a 200 mile round-trip coming up in a few weeks, and I'm a tad nervous... I'm sure I'll be fine, but given that I'm a worrier, I'm sure I'll worry the whole way.
P85 "rated" range is 280 or something. After a full charge i'm starting with 235- 240 RATED range, but my estimated range, based on last 30 miles of (apparently heavy-footed) driving starts at around 180 miles. That kinda sucks. I'm a bit surprised, actually. Hopefully now that I've gotten the heavy acceleration (almost) out of my system, the averages/projections will improve.

Like a honeymoon, I am learning more about my partner... but the pros more than outweigh the little quirks. In fact, I'm growing to love the little quirks. ahhh.... true love.

Schlermie | 8 oktober 2012

1. I'm not sure what door handle issue you're referring to, but I do hope they eventually get an update to automatically extend when you approach them with a fob, as it was defined in the original feature list for the tech package. Having to press/wait/pull the door handle to get in will be a drag, but far from being a deal breaker for me.

2. At the end of the Get Amped tour, Tesla was still saying the sunroof bar will eventually house the shades for the sunroof, but since then, I've heard they've abandoned plans for having shades. I'm not sure what to believe. That glass is so dark, I don't feel like it needs the shades where I live, and I'd love to see that housing reduced to whatever it barely needs to cover the roll bar; however, either way, this is far from being a deal breaker for me.

3. During my test drive, I was surprised a couple times when the car started to roll backward at some stop signs. It didn't even register with me that I was on an incline. It doesn't take much of an incline for the car to start rolling backward. I'm sure a quick learning curve will solve that problem though. I don't creep through bumper-to-bumper traffic very often, but when I need to it will be nice to have. If it costs me a noticeable amount of battery range, I'll probably have it turned off most of the time. It's already a committed feature though, so not a deal breaker.

Even the summation of these three items isn't a deal breaker for me. I tried to come up with a deal breaker, but there aren't any for me so far. Unless cars start showing evidence of unfixable safety/reliability problems or Tesla closes its doors, count me in.

Schlermie | 8 oktober 2012


3. The stick with the cruise control is where the turn signal should be. Don't most people drive with their hands on the top of the steering wheel? With one's left hand on the wheel, at the 10:00 position, the turn signal should be where you can grab it with your baby finger. It is not.

Most of us were probably trained to drive with our hands at 10 and 2 on the steering wheel, but with the advent of air bags, the NHTSA is now advocating a 9 and 3 position on the wheel. According the NHTSA, placing your hands at 10 and 2 could cost you your arms or hands in particularly gruesome ways if your airbag deploys.

Oaktowner | 8 oktober 2012

Tomas -

The buttons on the steering wheel, to change the radio station, do not advance to the next programed station; rather, it advances to the next station on the dial(scan).... useless.

Wow - I hope they change that (or make it configurable) via software update. I agree with you entirely; I almost always want to go to my next programmed station. The only exception is when I'm on a roadtrip, which is probably less than 1% of the time. | 8 oktober 2012

Honeymoon's over?!? Before most of us get hitched? I have known for years that I would be part of the large scale beta testing on this vehicle. I am still infatuated.

ArieK | 8 oktober 2012

@David M. : Seems to me that $5.75 /gallon gas in California would be keeping me on the Tesla "bus".

A quick online check ( of average gas prices in september puts the US at $3.96 a gallon and the UK at a whopping $8.61 a gallon! So the scales tip very favorable towards Tesla in the UK. :-)

Getting Amped Again | 8 oktober 2012

Tried the doors out on a demo unit the other day, and I agree the electromechanical door opening scheme will take some getting used to. We've been brought up yanking a car door handle with a continuous pull and that doesn't work on the Model S. You have to use a Pull-Pause-Pull approach, as the first pull doesn't unlatch the door fast enough to allow a continuous pull. I quickly got used to this, however, and it was no big deal.

The real issue is with new passengers, as Model S owners will be spending a bit of time explaining how to properly open the doors. I've lived with a similar issue on BMW's for a long time, as the interior handle requires two pulls to open a locked door (one to unlock and one to open). Once you "train" your passenger they get used to it, so this is really only going to be an issue for someone that has new passengers on a regular basis, like if they carpool, etc.

Like push-button start and other new car technologies, this will be annoying for about a day and then you'll forget about it - just my opinion.

Tomas | 8 oktober 2012

re: being part of a huge Beta test. I think you are sort of right about that, but i'm fine with it, as long as the folks at Tesla feel that way as well and they are appropriately responsive. Thus far, they have been.

It kind of reminds me of my neighbor as a kid who had an Jag XKE. The damn thing was nothing but trouble, but owning a Jag back in the 60's was like being in a cult. Owners loved the damn things, warts and all.

OK, so maybe I drank way too much of the cool-aid, but for me, Tesla is a movement as much as car company. I'm happy to live with some nits, temporarily, in order to advance the EV movement. And besides, the car is still rad.

BYT | 8 oktober 2012

For those who have the Model S, at times I might slightly press on the gas pedal on my ICE when on an incline that is too steep for creep to overcome. Does this type of slight touch on the accelerator work on the Model S to keep it from rolling backwards or is it so sensitive that it would just start moving forward instead of hold on the hill?

Tomas | 8 oktober 2012

My door handle issue is that sometimes it simply doesn't work-- the handle does not extent when touched. I touch it and nothing. Touch it again, and nothing, nothing, nothing. So I simply go retro and push the button on the and it works. No big deal.

And YES, it would be great if just extented when you approached the car. My Prius would light up and unlock when I got within a couple of feet. Seems easy enough to program.

Tomas | 8 oktober 2012

it can be done, but it's a sensitive balancing act keeping the car from moving forward or backward. and it depends on how steep the hill is. it creep backward even on an incline too small to even notice. Kind of a pain, but you get used to it.

Although, if one lifes in a very hilly area, it's may be a bigger problem. Like driving a stick where you have to be really fast moving your foot from the brake to the accelerator.

I have a Roaster as well, and for some reason, it does have as much if any at all.

BYT | 8 oktober 2012

Thanks Tomas, I know even in an ICE it can be a sensitive balancing act and practice makes perfect. I'm very happy to hear that it can be pulled off and luckily, I don't live in a very hilly area. I do visit San Francisco from time to time however and yea, it's pretty hilly! :D

GLO | 8 oktober 2012

I can't wait to be a paert of the large Beta test! Loved driving the car in San Jose Saturday! With CA gas prices, I am still on board...

sergiyz | 8 oktober 2012

Did you try left foot breaking ?
Does it actually work, i.e. does it let you push the accelerator at the same time with pushing breaks ?

Andrew18 | 8 oktober 2012


Brian H | 8 oktober 2012

It's "brakes" and "braking".
This was discussed, I believe, at some length wrt safety. There was a 3 (?) second delay, then the brakes overrode the goose pedal. There was some suggestion this lag would be reduced.

DouglasR | 8 oktober 2012


Regarding your motion sickness: do you experience this only with motion? What happens when you sit in the car but don't drive? I'm wondering whether you might be sensitive to something in the car's interior.

Michael S | 8 oktober 2012

The "door handle" issue is thus:

I have had VIN 76 for three weeks now and the door handles are very glitchy. You may not think its a big deal until you can't open any of the doors, fob or no fob, and have to climb into your car via the rear hatch. Not fun.

There are two problems currently:

Handle presentation. This is where the door handle extends so you can use it. Mine only extend once the driver's side is triggered first. Also, some don't extend at all sometimes unless I use the fob.

Second is the opening of the doors. The driver's side went out first, then started working again. And then once all of the doors decided not to open. Please note that they were having these problems the day I picked up my car and swapped out the driver's door handle thinking that was the problem.

Obviously they were wrong and have yet to come up with a fix for it 3 weeks later. Still waiting for a call with the fix. Personally, I think its a circuitry problem in the processor that controls all of the doors, rather than this door handle or that door handle.

I am well aware that we are all beta-testers in a new electric world and this issue will resolve itself before most of you get your cars. I'm certinaly not giving you mine. They can have my electric car when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

Rod and Barbara | 8 oktober 2012

Michael S, thanks for the update. Very interesting and surprising. After 10 weeks we have had no problems with our door handles (not counting a couple of key fob inspired snafus). Wonder what changed?

Alex K | 8 oktober 2012

@Michael S | OCTOBER 8, 2012: You may not think its a big deal until you can't open any of the doors, fob or no fob, and have to climb into your car via the rear hatch.

What about clicking the fob 2-times to open all the windows and then using the door latch?

gimp_dad | 8 oktober 2012

You'll be happy to know that creep has now been added. I just got release 1.13.16 tonight and it included the creep feature. It is pretty mild compared to most automatic transmissions in idle but my driveway is on an incline and it causes the car to hold rather than roll backward like it does without creep enabled. On level ground it creeps very slowly.

Oh, and regarding the pano roof bar, I personally am not a fan of sunroofs or moonroofs for that matter. I have and have had several of them and don't use them hardly ever and consider them more likely to let in noise or whether than to provide any enjoyment. I had a Porsche Carrera Cabriolet which I enjoyed and almost always had the top down but the sunroof seems more like the bad of top down (noise, weather) without the good of being all the way down. I went with the solid roof and love how quiet the car is on the highway.

Also, regarding opening all the windows with the fob. Mine is not a double click. A single press and hold on the top button causes all four windows to go down. Double click is how you unlock the car and single click and release is how you lock it.

vouteb | 9 oktober 2012

Adjusted top 3 deal breakers:

1.(and firmly 1) Door handles (Thanks Tomas)
2. Sun/moon roof bar
3. Rear vision views and distortion

cerjor | 9 oktober 2012

MandL: On a hill, can you use your left foot on the brake and then use your right one on the accelerator. Release the brake at the same time you press the accelerator?

MandL | 9 oktober 2012

cerjor: I suppose I could, but I have never been able to operate a brake with my left foot. It's like writing with my left hand. All jerky and uncomfortable. You can hold it with a light touch on the accelerator. Takes a little practice.

Michael S | 9 oktober 2012

@cerjor: Very bad idea. Let foot is clutch foot and otherwise should not be used for driving.

@Rod and Barbara: Just my luck, I guess. If something's not going to work, its not going to work for me.

@Alex K: I did not know of the window function. I will try it now.

@gimp_dad: Will try you method, as well.

(I wish Tesla would have told me about that function at some point themselves).

Michael S | 9 oktober 2012

@gimp_dad: Your method worked. Thanks.

mrspaghetti | 9 oktober 2012

@Michael S: +1 "They can have my electric car when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers."

mrspaghetti | 9 oktober 2012

Also @Michael S:

Very bad idea. Let foot is clutch foot and otherwise should not be used for driving.

Let's not be dogmatic. After all, there are a lot of people who would say, "Bad idea. Batteries are just for starting an ICE and should not be used for powering the wheels."

There is no reason one can't use the left foot for the brake on hills. I've done it many times and it has not resulted in any harmful effects that I'm aware of. Sometimes we must unlearn what we have learned.

Oaktowner | 9 oktober 2012

+1 tesla.mrspaghet...

I've had some big ICEs without hill hold in the past, and I certainly used my left foot to assist in starting on steep hills in order to prevent rolling backward (I lived on Russian Hill in San Francisco for 10 years, so I did a lot of hill driving). I used it in much the same way I used the emergency brake in the same situation for my manual transmissions.

I agree that, in general, the left foot is to be eschewed when driving an automatic. But I do grant myself absolution during startup on a hill.