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Who believes $1000 is a fair price for an adapter?

Who believes $1000 is a fair price for an adapter?

$1000 really?
If I didn't know better I would say Tesla is trying to discourage us from using this company!

NRG eVGO is installing stations that can charge our cars 150 miles an hour, BUT.......

I stopped to see one yesterday at the Camarillo outlet malls. Their Freedom Stations can charge a Tesla 150 miles in an hour, 5 times faster than a level 2, but only 1/2 the speed of Tesla's super Charging stations. These stations could come in vary handy in an emergency, but I have been told that we can't use them at this point because our car didn't come with the correct adapter for this unit.

I have also been told that the adapter will cost $1000, which seems to be very userous. I have never heard of an adapter costing so much. I have purchased several over the years, and this one would seem to be gold plated.

I called NRG today and talked to a rep for about 30 minutes. They fit their charging stations for the majority of electric vehicles, which did not include Tesla.

He said that adapters are available over seas but are in the process of being tested here.

He indicated that Tesla will produce the adapter, and he agreed that they are way to expensive. He was going to ask his boss if they could include an adapter at each unit.

$1000.00 is ridicules!

If I didn't no better, I would assume that Tesla is charging so much to discourage us from going with this company.

Call 855-509-5581 to talk to a company rep and voice your concerns, or e-mail Tesla.

$1000 is just crazy!

Captain_Zap | 11 april 2014

@LMB

In the wild west, where we put things together with left over baling wire and tree pitch, the AC 100A charging station is a cheap and easy solution for remote areas or rural areas when compared to the alternatives. (The alternatives are either much slower, more expensive or nothing at all.)

We can coax small towns and small businesses to consider putting in those chargers in more remote critical junctions by letting them know that a higher amperage J1772 attracts tourists and customers that wouldn't normally stop in. Small cities want their charging stations to be accessible to all makes too, otherwise a HPWC would be the best option on a tight budget.

AmpedRealtor | 11 april 2014

Stating for the record... even though I have a supercharger in my town and only 2 miles from my house, I would never think of using this or any other supercharger to furnish my charging needs in lieu of my home charging. I think that constitutes abuse and goes against the intent and purpose behind the superchargers.

carlk | 11 april 2014

@AR A full charge costs about $7 electricity in my case. I wouldn't think may owners would drive miles and then have to wait for 30~60 minutes just to save a few bucks.

Captain_Zap | 11 april 2014

@AR

Your post confused me.

renwo S alset | 11 april 2014

AR. +++, but you are confusing.

PV_Dave @US-PA | 11 april 2014

$1,000 is a perfectly reasonable price for a 50kW charge capability. I just hope that it's really available "soon".

There are over 300 CHAdeMO stations in the US, and Nissan is continuing to roll them out via their dealer networks. This would be a big help not only where Superchargers are still sparse, but also with destination charging. Supercharge between cities, then CHAdeMO within the city.

I think of it as a travel-oriented car option, similar to the dual on-board chargers, except that it's easier to add later. Though I agree that renting it on an as-needed basis would make a lot of sense for owners who only expect to use it very infrequently.

amitb00 | 11 april 2014

Do Nissan dealers offer charging facility to Tesla? Does it vary from dealer to dealer? Is there a cost to charge there?

NO2PTRL | 11 april 2014

I called two Nissan dealerships, it seems that Tesla's, along with all electric cars, are welcome at all of them.

However, the first one that I called in Montclair indicated that Chevy Volts, from the dealership across the street, were jamming up the chargers so they had to restrict all of the kids including Tesla.
But it sounded like if I showed up, I could charge.

It is free......

carlk, I agree, if it only cost $7.00 to charge at home, why would locals jam up the charging stations, but I have read here that they do. I guess it depends on where you live and your power rate. If it costs $12,00 a fill, and you fill even twice a week, that saves $624 a year.

Mark22 | 11 april 2014

@Sterling,
Do you really need more than 200-250 miles for a day of driving around town?

d_kaufman | 11 april 2014

There have been mixed comments about Nissan dealership responses to charging requests, but in any case are often limited to business hours.

NO2PTRL | 11 april 2014

Mark,

I am moving two a new house next month, so I have not installed the 240 at this house, I am on a slow drip 110.
I have been driving to the new house and back, and if I then, at the spur of the moment, want to drive to my daughters house in Irvine, I could very well be in trouble.

So I have been looking into options until I get my 240 installed.

The other issue that a new owner has, is just how much energy I use driving the car the way a 0 to 60 in 4 seconds car should be driven.
This is not your granddad's electric car.
It is near full out open on entrance ramps, with a shite arse grin on my face.

So getting to Barstow and then Vegas could be a problem with how I like to drive, and I want to know where emergency stops are along the trip should I need them.

Brian H | 13 april 2014

Mark K;
Tesla has no clout or pull at the CHAdeMO outlets, which are mostly Nissan.

Tam;
$1000-650=350, not $250.

Mark K | 13 april 2014

Brian -

Looking at the CHAdeMO map, the coverage sucks compared to the already built superchargers in the US. (Europe has more though).

Except in Tenessee, (Nissan factory home state), they're not all at Nissan dealers either.

The stated purpose of CHAdeMO is to charge all makes. If they don't accept free adapters from Tesla, that pretty well defines them as not at all universal.

Given that Tesla is investing engineering in making an adapter, I still think the most efficient way is to install them is at the stations instead of 100X as many in frunks. And they can skip all stations near a supercharger.

Lower cap cost and higher utility.

Looking at the comparison of the networks though, Tesla suoerchargers already now far outclass them across North America.

SuperChargers are a much better deal for Tesla owners. Faster charge - strategically located for distance travel, and no recurring costs.

AmpedRealtor | 13 april 2014

CHAdeMO would seem to make the most sense for the S40, but you can't enable DC charging on the S40 can you?

Mark K | 13 april 2014

AR - that's rather true, which further says few will benefit from it.

Tesla is outrunning CHAdeMO install rate and location. So much so that it will quickly be of little interest to Model S owners.

The only thing that helps Model S owners is more Tesla-compatible nozzles.

It sure seems like $1K for an adapter that almost never comes out of your frunk - that money would be better spent on other infrastructure.

Adding 3G to The HWPC and just letting more people set up their own public Tesla chargers would have a larger impact.

With 3G, Tesla could see who's getting the power and how much. There could be a nominal charge for it run by a Tesla server, which could then forward some modest credit to that owner to cover the electricity cost.

If those were to spring up all over the place, by home/business owners, that would be great.

There are lots of Johnny Appleseeds out there who'd love to help.

NO2PTRL | 13 april 2014

When you look at charging expansion over the past few years, within a couple more they should be everywhere.

If NRG wants to see 30,000 plus Tesla's stop by their stations, they had better figure out a way make Tesla charging more economical, and $1000 is not it.

shop | 13 april 2014

There is a big difference between charging at HPWC speeds (20kW) and Chademo (50kW).

Mark K | 13 april 2014

Shop - definitely, but you can't use it unless you have supercharging enabled.

And if one is nearby, why the heck would we pay for 50kW when could get 120kW for free?

aaronw2 | 13 april 2014

According to a friend of mine who drives a Leaf and has extensively researched this it cost $500 just for the ChaDeMo connector!!! It's basically controlled by only one company which charges a bloody fortune to use it.

Apparently people are now 3-D printing the connector which brings the cost down significantly, but I'm not sure how legal that is, especially with all the safety issues involved with handling that much power.

mrspaghetti | 13 april 2014

The market determines what a fair price is. If the price is high compared to cost of production, others will produce them to try to get in on the 'obscene profits', which in turn brings down the cost. If other companies are not jumping on that bandwagon, it probably means production cost isn't as low as you might think.

SCCRENDO | 13 april 2014

It is all about supply and demand. It is a niche product. As the supercharger network build out its relevance decreases. On the west coast particularly Californa at present it has minimal utility. I would find it extremely useful in a couple of weeks as I am going to Oregon and exploring the coast would be a tremendous time saver and an alternate option and frankly worth it. As it's availability is only a month or so later and I live in Southern Cal not sure whether I would ever recoup the cost but it would be an extra bit of insurance for those days when one is going to multiple places off the main supercharger highway. If I lived in Canada or Tennessee it would be totally worth it. Perhaps if I get one will plan a road trip through Canada.

SBerg | 13 april 2014

If it seems too expensive compared to your expected use, don't buy it.

church70 | 13 april 2014

There's not too many level III chargers in Canada I know British Columbia have some but there's only one in Ontario that I know of in the GTA

paulfgoode | 13 april 2014

Price is too steep. There are only a couple of CHAdeMO in NYC but at convenient locations in Manhattan. But not worth paying $1000 for the adapter. Nearest Tesla SC is at JFK, close enough for topping off after long weekend driving but useless otherwise. I rent a garage and can only get 110v 12amp from owner now so charging at third party locations is necessary for back to back drives of 100+ miles. BRING DOWN THE PRICE!

NO2PTRL | 13 april 2014

I hope that NRG sees the benefit of 30,000 Tesla's and subsidizes these adapters.

NO2PTRL | 13 april 2014

Call 855-509-5581 to talk to a company rep and voice your concerns about how much it will cost us to charge at their stations, or not.

If they get enough call's maybe they will chip in.

jjaeger | 13 april 2014

I do.

shop | 14 april 2014

Sounds like a portion of the cost of the Chademo adapter isn't based on supply and demand, but license fees from the Chademo association. Not much Tesla can do about that.

AmpedRealtor | 14 april 2014

I'm not sure about the business case for NRG to pay $1,000 per location to enable a handful of Model S cars to charge. It doesn't seem to make any financial sense to do so. It sounds lofty and nice to say that providing an adapter will bring Model S cars to their charging stations, but ultimately, such low volume won't matter or make any difference.

Mark K | 14 april 2014

AR - it seems like it's still smarter to get 10 people to pay $100 for one installed at the station, that they use maybe 0.1% of the time.

By definition, no two users could use that station at the same time anyway.

jamespowell | 19 april 2014

I live in Buellton, CA and had been planning to drive to LA, recharging in Camarillo on the way since I can't get there and back on one charge--285 miles round trip. Reading this post, I am concerned that I will not be able to use the Camarillo NRG eVgo charger. I have a Model S purchased 8/31/2103. I know I could recharge in Hawthorne, but that is out of the way and might be crowded. Any advice will be appreciated. I will be in Hancock Park.

Thanks.

thekiko | 19 april 2014

"$1000.00 is ridicules!"

ridicuous...

"If I didn't no better"

know...

thekiko | 19 april 2014

"ridicuous"

ridiculous, sorry.

NKYTA | 19 april 2014

I've now associated ridiculous with "the kiko".
Apt.

AmpedRealtor | 19 april 2014

Hey little boy, come back when you can spell like the grown ups.

AmpedRealtor | 19 april 2014

Fortunately, very few Model S owners will want or need a $1,000 CHAdeMO adapter because they can charge more than twice as fast and more conveniently using the free Tesla superchargers throughout the country. CHAdeMO is more useful for stunted, hobbled, and crippled cars like the BMW i8 which can only go 20 miles on a charge - half as far as a Chevy Volt which costs 1/3 the price of an i8. You'd spend more time charging that i8 than actually driving it. Per BMW's web site, it takes 2.5 hours for the i8 to charge to 20 miles of range. It also cannot use DC fast charging, probably because it would damage the battery.

If you wanted to use the i8 as a real EV to drive the circumference of the earth, it would take 3,125 hours (130 days) just to charge. Good luck with that. Oh but wait, the i8 is a hybrid and has a gas engine. Who cares? This is an EV forum and we are fans of 100% electric vehicles. Hybrids are bastard stepchildren of misplaced corporate interests and the antiquated gasoline technology on which they are based.

Bighorn | 19 april 2014

@AR
...not that there's anything wrong with that.

AmpedRealtor | 19 april 2014

Right.

Pungoteague_Dave | 19 april 2014

Charging adapters are a temporary and (eventually) irrelevant sideshow. The problem is the lack of any reasonable business case for EV charging. It is simply impossible to make a profit model work, given either current demand, or the wildest EV adoption projections. As it is today, even the "free" Supercharger network barely provides as many charges per week WORLDWIDE as customer fill-ups at a single high-volume gas station does in the same amount of time. (That's ONE gas station in ONE location fuels as many cars as the whole Tesla Supercharger network does - as of Feb 2014).

It turns out that road trips are a VERY small percentage of EV charging demand, even for cars with the capacity to do so. That's one reason that Blink already went bankrupt, and why virtually all other commercial charging ventures will also go the way of the dodo, except for Tesla's Superchargers, which have a whole different financial model. The only reason that private charging networks can exist today is through subsidies from the landowner, who desires to have the amenity onsite (eg Whole Foods, Cracker Barrel, Walgreens, and office building or shopping center owners). These EV benefactors are finding out fast that it isn't a build/install-it-and-forget-it deal - that these things break or get vandalized regularly. Lately the places we have tried to Level II charge have been broken or crippled about half the time. That's now true at virtually every Whole Foods in our region, and is a key reason that Cracker Barrel has decided to stop installing and/or replacing/repairing the chargers at their restaurants. As a shopping center owner, I have researched installing several EV alternatives, and the numbers for private install don't work. We have investments in several centers (outlets and Mills projects) with Superchargers, which cost the landowner little, but even those are seeing almost no shopper traffic benefit.

The answer is and will remain, home charging coupled with Superchargers, and for many people, an ICE backup for towing, long trips to destinations like ski resorts or places far beyond the Supercharger network. For example, it is virtually impossible to reasonably quickly drive a Model S today north from Boston to Cape Breton, where we have relatives and attend a music festival every October. It is a real place with real highways connecting the cities, but there is neither the high speed charging network, nor any proposal, Supercharger or otherwise, to enable such a trip in the next few years, maybe much longer. EV's are still fringe vehicles for many. We put more miles on them than any of our other vehicles, but when they can't do the job, we are thankful for good old ICE range and towing power.

Red Sage ca us | 19 april 2014

NO2PTRL tickled me with, "This is not your granddad's electric car."

LOLoLOLoLOL!

This made me think of my Grandfather's Brother, Uncle RJ... who had a Pontiac Firebird, like the ones from the Smokey & The Bandit movies. Teeny little man, he could barely see over the steering wheel. I imagine him racing my Grandfather Will, who would have a Tesla Model S... Ah, pure joy!

shop | 19 april 2014

@PD: "The answer is and will remain, home charging coupled with Superchargers, and for many people, an ICE backup for towing, long trips to destinations like ski resorts or places far beyond the Supercharger network."

I agree, but let's not exaggerate the other way too. I have destination charged at lots of ski resorts and vacation condos. So you can very much take your Tesla with you in many places.

"For example, it is virtually impossible to reasonably quickly drive a Model S today north from Boston to Cape Breton"

Yes, even in the US, it will take a long time (10 years?) to fully fill out a transportation infrastructure.

Be careful, though, PD, with extrapolating current trends into the future and not taking into account potential disruptive changes.

Four years ago, the idea of doing ANY long distance driving comfortably wasn't in the cards AT ALL. Then comes along Elon and Superchargers and now a large number of people can drive most places (if you live in CA) without significant compromise.

So, when looking to the future, you have to ask yourself, what else could happen?

Let's see. In three years, the $35K Model E starts selling. In five years, 500,000 new Model Es are hitting the road, completely dwarfing all other EVs by a huge margin. And while this is going on, ONLY Tesla has a real long distance travel solution. I suspect, at this point, five years from now, other auto manufacturers are going to start licensing Superchargers, increasing their build out even faster.

30,000 Teslas sold to date in the US have financed about 85 unique Supercharger locations. 500,000 should finance A LOT more unique locations.

It is still early days - 10 years from now, it'll be quite different...

SCCRENDO | 19 april 2014

@jamespowell. You didn't say whether you had a 60 or 85. You also don't say how long you will be staying and how pushed for time you will be. Can you do a wall charge at your destination. My son lives in Hancock Park and there is pretty scanty charging infrastructure. I live in Orange County so I usually go back and forth on a single charge. If I am doing errands and want a safety top up I have headed to 3 rd street in Santa Monica where they have many free clipper creek chargers in the parking garages. Best backup would be to divert to Hawthorne on your way in or out trying to arrive at non peak times.. Issue to me would be more traffic. Have charged at Hawthorne 3-4 times and there were always 2-3 open bays.

PV_Dave @US-PA | 19 april 2014

@Mark K: “Looking at the CHAdeMO map, the coverage sucks compared to the already built superchargers in the US.” and “Tesla is outrunning CHAdeMO install rate and location.”

What map are you looking at? Are you saying that the >300 CHAdeMO stations in the US have no utility because Model S drivers wouldn't want to supplement the 85 Superchargers we currently have? I’d prefer to have both, thanks!
--
@thekiko: “Elon Musk found a group of suckers who believe that they are saving the environment and electricity is free.”

thekiko, I think you were looking for the “troll” forum. This is a discussion about the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter.
--
The Model S is disruptive for many reasons, one of which is the ability to do a degree of long distance travel previously impractical for pure EVs. That capability will substantially increase over time as charging infrastructure is built out. $1,000 is an expensive tool, but the Model S is an expensive car, and it'd be worth $1,000 to me to be able to use the Model S in a particular set of cases that I'd otherwise need to take the ICE. Obviously for many folks it won't be worth it, which is fine. But let's please try not to assert our personal preferences on ALL of the other owners, just because it doesn't appear to make sense for your particular situation. Some of us are willing to go to substantial lengths in order to try to leave the ICE in the garage, with the hope of ditching it entirely some day.

tes-s | 19 april 2014

Why don't they just equip their DC chargers with a CHAdeMO nozzle and a Tesla nozzle? If they are interested in the Tesla market, seems like a good thing to do.

The Tesla nozzle could simply be a second CHAdeMO nozzle with a permanently-attached Tesla adapter.

michael1800 | 19 april 2014

To address the OP: I do.

TFMethane | 19 april 2014

@tes-s

NRG eVGO would have to pay a license fee to Tesla to put connectors for both vehicles at their charge stations. Tesla may not want to grant a license if they don't like the deal or the prospects for ongoing cooperation.

Tesla has said they would partner with other car makers to license Tesla supercharging connectors on their vehicles - as long as they help pay for the network buildout (read that, license the tech from Tesla).

The $1000 price tag is justifiable based on the high manufacturing and design cost with the low expectation of demand. It's a service to the few buyers who might use it.

It will be most useful in emerging Tesla markets, and for existing owners who might want destination charging (since fee-based ChadeMo stations will also be located in population centers, rather than on the road between them, like superchargers are).

Hodas | 20 april 2014

I am still trying to figure out whether I will buy it to deal with my atypical use case.

I live in downtown LA and work a couple of miles away. I have no charging available at home OR at work. I typically drive a couple of hundred miles a week, but with vampire drain and my 365W/mi average over the life of my car that is pretty much a full charge.

Mostly, I budget a drive over to hawthorne once a week but sometimes I need two if I do extra driving.

Three months ago, though, I moved back to the Arts District (from the "core") and lately, since I have been busy, I have instead been dropping my car at Urban Radish, which has a big bank of Blink chargers including one Chademo and is a few blocks from my apartment. I walk home from there and go back in the morning to pick it up. I can get a full charge or close to it, but it takes about 15 hours at $1/hour if I am just about empty. The Chademo unit is $5 flat rate.

Although sitting at Hawthorne with WiFi is not bad, it is still a 1.5-2 hour commitment including the drive, so this is more convenient, and I have been doing it more and more lately.

So, IF i continue this pattern and IF Blink sticks to the $5 flat rate for Chademo, then I will probably get the adaptor. It will pay off after 50-100 weeks. But I am worried that I will buy it but then Blink will either really go out of business, or change their Chademo deal.

TFMethane | 20 april 2014

@Hodas

You should be able to charge at least off 110V. Tesla says not to use an extension cord, but if you buy a real heavy duty cord (lowest gage you can find). It's more than the vampire drain, and with the newer low-power sleep feature, you can get a good 30 miles or so of range added overnight, or at least 15 miles or so while at work.

TFMethane | 20 april 2014

http://www.quick220.com/220_catalog/voltage-converters.html

which has been posted at other threads. If you can find two separate outlets at work (say on different floors of a structure, and convince your boss to let you leave extension cords there, you can combine to get 220V charging for the cost of this adapter and a couple of heavy-duty extension cords. Total cost of about #350. It will charge you at about 3mph, so about 25 miles in an 8hr work day, or 50 miles or so at night, if you can set it up at home.

jamespowell | 20 april 2014

@SCCRENDO

Thanks for the tips. Much appreciated. I also note on Recargo that there are chargers at The Grove and also at LACMA. I will be in that area for awhile so these would work. J-1772 types. I have an 85 and will be there for two nights.

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