Looks like the Taycan information embargo is over:https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/09/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about...https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28899036/2020-porsche-taycan-photos-i...https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020-porsche-taycan-electric-car-range-i...
Love it or hate it, it's a well-executed EV with a lot of buzz around it. IMHO, if there were a real charging network for it, it would be a huge success.
Looks pretty sick on the interior. Im a person that likes alot of that cool futuristic stuff. Im definitely one that wanted the instrument panel to stay behind the steering wheel in M3. The range though.....
This is like Teslas first roadster. They'll reach 300 miles "soon"™
Some interesting points:
- Coefficient of Drag (Cd) of 0.22 - which is excellent, besting the Model 3 at 0.23
- Estimated range of 240 Miles (EPA, Motor Trend) from a 93 kWh battery indicates an inefficient drivetrain given the excellent aerodynamic performance. I'll be interested in future analyses here.
- It plays electric motor whine through the speakers. Seriously, this is a "feature".
- An 800V charger will add 75% charge (5% to 80%) in a bit over 22 minutes.
- 3 second 0-60 in the Turbo, 2.6 seconds in the Turbo S
- Weighs 5100 pounds
- 484 800V / 350 KW chargers from Electrify America should be online by the end of the year, in addition to 189 at Porsche dealerships. No word if the Dealership chargers will be available after-hours.
- Turbo starts at $150,900 before options; The Turbo S at $185,000. Note that it has $7500 US EV tax credits available.
And, in a purely personal opinion, the drooping eyelids at the outer edges of the headlights and the downturned mouth of a grill make it look like it's feeling sad.
@Frank, no wonder it's sad. It's a sad excuse for a "Tesla Killer." And hopefully Porsche's parent company doesn't cheat on any materials or specs that will sour the public on BEVs.
270 kW max charging per the Porsche PowerPoint presentation.
And don't forget the Taycan has hundreds of cryptic buttons for those that love them!
Front and rear looked OK and Porsche like but the side profile looked like some American muscle car designer designed it.
I think it looks great with the white rims. Now as for the interior, wayyyyyy too busy due to too many screens. Also a screen, in the center console, at an angel is a dumb idea because of sun glare, plus it makes it too susceptible to ruined by spilling a drink on it.
I’ve seen it in person on the road a few times now... all blacked out it looks awesome. It has that traditional Porsche design language so from a distance or quick glance you it could pass for Panamera or 911. I see this as a great car from a great manufacturer. The best feature is that it will compel Tesla to improve and innovate more. Especially cabin noise and interiors. I’m sure Tesla will update the exterior but hopefully not dramatically so. Porsche has managed to retain its design language for decades, Tesla is iconic enough to do the same. I’m torn on the interior. Tesla could definitely learn a lot with regard to quality, fit and finish. But I hope they don’t lose the iOS like simplicity and ease of use from the current version by adding things just for the sake of it. If they add things hopefully it’s a HUD or things that are meaningful. Very good times for high end EVs!
"Especially cabin noise and interiors.
Seriously? Porsche is pumping sounds into the cabin!
Can't wait to see the Turbo S and Performance S race at the 1/4 mile!
Good to see the tire pressure monitor is front and center on the drivers display. Because that information is critical.
@RX yes... There's a difference between unintentional rattles, road and wind noise vs intentional audio to enhance the driving experience. The Porsche is more oriented for what I’ll call “EV GT” driving so the audio is a feature. I still think Tesla is a better everyday luxury car due to Autopilot, price, room, cargo space and of course an actual Supercharger network. For those reasons if I had to pick I wouldn’t give up my 2015 P90D for a Taycan. But when compared to my pre-AP 2013 P85+ I’d take Taycan especially since back then Superchargers weren’t as widely available.
Wow, it's almost as fast as my Model S! Seats almost as many people too. And it has almost as much range (as my pre-Raven S). Storage capacity, not so much, but who's counting? And one day there will be almost as many charging stations!
Maybe that should be their slogan - almost as good as a Tesla!
Only twice the price.
@Mad it’s not a direct competitor to Model S. The cars have some overlapping capabilities but they specialize in different things. Taycan is a boutique sports car, an exclusive big boy toy built in small numbers, for people who also or may like doing track days. This is what Porsche is good at. But it can be a daily driver. Model S is a mass market luxury sedan that specializes in being an everyday driver that can rival or beat sports cars in some categories.
It's a start. Long way to go. Need Japanese automaker
to introduce fully electric car.
It was depressing walking from my parking garage into work.
Drop in the bucket as far as EV's here in TX. Need electric
pickup / van now instead of these expensive high end luxury
cars. Need millions sold instead of thousands.
@nwfan that would be good... I recall the Japanese being more supportive of hydrogen cars. Oil is a strategic vulnerability for Japan. Moving away from fossil fueled cars could free up oil for more urgent energy dense needs in their case. Considering that hydrogen for them has a good use case.
not on topic but important nonetheless:
@nwfan - We already do have a very successful EV from a Japanese automaker (Nissan Leaf).
A twitter account was showing the interior, and HORRIBLE lag from the touch screens in the Taycan. Apparently the Germans are no match for Silicon Valley.
That lag was horrifying. But almost better than all the f’ing clocks.
I like my German-built smart TV, tablet, smart phone, with custom coding! Move over Silicon Valley!
@parichey, 62 kWh version of the Leaf I agree. The early versions were
limited by battery size and lack of thermal management. Doubtful
anyone could be a single Leaf home.
I applaud Porsche and personally think Taycan is great looking car. It appears well built and will only get better. Good to see that Tesla is not the only game in town and we'll soon have many other choices besides the quirky Musk brand
I agree with you. And if the promise of high-speed Electrify America chargers comes to pass, the Taycan will be the first serious competitor for Tesla. Then we can argue about the details of two great cars, like the Vette and Porsche guys do. Without the chargers, IMHO, the Taycan is fatally flawed.
No charging = no chance of success.
Charging in the city shouldn’t be an issue. Charging at home shouldn’t be an issue. Road trips are going to be problematic for Taycan. But it isn’t built for road tripping...
Reading this just make me want to jump in my Model 3 and go for a test drive....
Of my model 3
“It isn’t built for road tripping.”
Porsche, with decades of experience building cars, having more cash at their disposal than Tesla cannot build a half-worthy car to compete against a 2012 Model S 85 kWh? Granted it’s much faster than the S85, but it’s been SEVEN years since it came out!
They already build a car to complete with Model S... It's called Panamera! There's even a Hybrid version for those who want EV capability. Yes I know it also uses an ICE engine beyond ~30 miles but that was so that intentional since Porsche has great engines and transmissions they can leverage to take advantage of existing infrastructure for long range driving. Remember that all auto manufacturers aren't on a mission to exclusively make EVs. Taycan does not have a direct competitor yet. It’s a different type of car targeted towards a different type of buyer.
We are talking about a direct competitor to the Model S. As in all electric. Breathe deeply, and focus.
So Panamera is a competitor to the Model S, but Taycan doesn’t have any competition? Wow.
You are back to your inane comments, aren’t you.
The starting price is $150,000!!!!, the pool of people that can swing that is much much smaller than those that can buy Model S’s. This car was built to be a halo car, not for actual sales. They went overboard with the screens and then stick an analog clock in the center of the dash. Anyone want to take a guess at how “well” it will be too see the screen they put in the center console with the sun coming through the windshield. “Brilliant” design.
Again, the car cost at least $150,000 and it has LESS range than a 2012 S85.
Specked out it is $234k for the top end. Roadster II has already had this for lunch.
Somebody at Porsche missed the memo...
Is this the “sugarcoating” everyone has been talking about? Lol
@redshift a Leaf has an electric motor. Does that make it a direct competitor? You are misunderstanding product categories and markets. Taycan and Model S are not direct competitors or even the same kind of car. Understand that Taycan is a sports sedan targeted towards 1%'er Porsche buyers with the objective of highlighting what an EV performance car can be and of course marketing. You will not see many of these out and about like by design. You will not see many people with Taycan as their only car, family or road tripping car. In stock configuration for now no EV will outperform it on a closed course race track. I hate to break it to you but Model S while slightly quicker in the 1/4 mile is not built to do what Taycan does and vice versa. Does this mean Model S is inferior or outclassed? No. It means Model S isn't built to do what a Taycan is built to do. Taycan buyers will also on average be much more wealthy and aren't buying it for the reasons most Model S owners buy their cars. In fact some Model S owners will also own Taycans. Guess which one they will take to track day? Guess which one they will take on a road trip? Be objective and not a fanboy.
It’s a competitor to roadster 2.0
Thirty years ago Legacy car makers were testing the car market to see how well electric cars would be received by the general public. Saturn had the EV1 and Toyota the Rav4 (ev). Everyone knows "who killed the electric car", a documentary which highlighted how much these cars were loved by the test group who leased them. Fast forward 20 yrs... in 2008 some former Saturn EV engineers decided to resurrect the EV and started Tesla who's first offer was the roadster.
Tesla proved once again demand for EV's was real even at the luxury price point ... north of 100K.
After Elon Musk joined the team (vision), Tesla has been able to overcome every obstacle in their path, and develop the technology .
Fast forward to present day. .. Legacy car makers are all being FORCED into the EV arena for fear of being left behind. This is all due to Tesla, their vision and commitment. I cannot thank you enough.d
Point #`1. Everyday I'm reading about another "Tesla Killer" car hitting the market. Porsche, byton, Rivian... Audi.. you name it. If these cars were in fact equal / better than Tesla cars, it would mean Legacy Mfg have been
holding back superior technology for decades, in favor of maximizing profits on their investment in antiquated techbnology. For this reason, I would never buy one of their EV's .
Point #2. If Legacy car makers gave Tesla a 10 yr head start. This tells me no one in the personal transportation business gave the company any chance of success. Why else would they give them a 10 yr headstart ? Congratulations to Elon and everyone on the Tesla Team who over the past 10 yrs have managed countless obstacles and proved EV's are the car of the future ! This remarkable effort has forced all car makers to produce EV's for the mass market. The only problem is they gave their main competition Tesla a 10 yr head start in developing the technology. This is the second reason I would not buy a competitors EV. They do not have the range (battery density)...performance... charging network.... They are all playing catch up .
A great effort by VW/Porsche .....the taycan would compete well with the original roadster . all be it much more expensive 150-175k vs. 125k.
In closing .... competition is entering the arena ... which was one of Tesla's main goals. As for a "Tesla Killer"...
governmanet policy (resulting from campaign finance contributions from big auto ) / financing will kill Tesla before the competition does ! IMHO .. there are no EV's today which have same performance , charging, range , price and I wouldn't expect any soon. It takes time and $$ to develop these products. For my money, I choose Tesla !
@david.biron +1 you are on the mark
No he or she is not. Like most people there's a fundamental misunderstanding of the market and state of the art. There's also a misunderstanding of the objectives of these companies. The are many different type of car customer. The are different types of car propulsion systems. This is what determines the kind of products are made.
there is one market.
2. State of the art
tesla is the pinnacle. porsche is an also-ran.
tesla's objective is to accelerate the advent of sustainable energy. Porsche's is to look cool. big fail.
4. different type of customer
see market. there is one "type" of customer. everyone wants the best they can afford. nobody wants the blackberry of cars. see porsche.
Taycan is perfect for the billionaires that want a halo green vehicle that is never driven. Perhaps it would look good in the living room. Since it's an EV, no leaky oil stains on the carpets like the Ferrari or McLaren. I'm sure Porche can sell a boatload of these, as I'm sure some want two or three to put in storage. They may be worth something in 5 years from now as one of the first EV antiques sold as a new car.
I know somebody who ordered the Porsche.
He looks down his nose at Tesla because it does not say "Porsche" on the side
Yes, there IS a market for the Taycan
I just described it
@SamO you were wrong from the start. If there was ONE market, Tesla wouldn't make different type of cars. Again talk reasonably and not as a fanboy.
@TeslaTap for people making over $250 to $300 thousand a year minimum. That's where Taycan starts. Of course some fools making less will buy them too.
just because you make a lot of money (or earned it the old fashioned way, by inheriting it) doesn't mean one is prone to making frivolous, poorly thought out purchases. If I were to spend $200k on and EV, it would definitely be a Roadster 2.
Why waste that kind of money on an underperforming local commuter car with a fancy name?
It’s not “under performing” as the lap time demonstrates.
I get that Taycan cannot do road tripping, but supposedly holds its own in consecutive lapping.
The point is ‘will these two be cross shopped by a majority of buyers’?
The answer is yes. This isn’t being a fanboy. It’s just plain common sense.
Model S was created to be a family hauler meant to do long distance when demanded. It was also a bit sporty (sport sedan is a loosely defined term unlike ‘sports car’ by which it always means rear drive, 2 doors).
Taycan, while having equivalent exterior dimensions, is much more cramped inside (why?), less efficient (why?), and heavier (why?).
They couldn’t create a balance between various design constraints? Were they afraid of going head to head with the Model S, if they went that way?
There are aspects of Taycan i like. However, I feel this car is over constrained artificially to suit a narrow niche.
Makes no sense why.
@Red it’s built for its purpose. As a family hauler it soundly beats Taycan. As a long range EV, Model S has a decisive advantage. But that’s not what it’s optimized for. Those tighter dimensions and weight give it the track performance where it has the advantage over Model S. This allows for the suspension, transmission, breaks and cooling needed to out maneuver and outlast other EVs when racing. Porsche gives up .2 sec in the 1/4 mile and ~75 miles range to the Model S to get a 7:42 lap time. So it’s not which vehicle is superior, both are great. It’s what do you want to do with your EV? The good thing is that Elon is very big on competition so hopefully this motivates the creation of a higher spec’s Model S. However I’m fine with Model S specs as is. What I would like more than increased performance is an improved interior... quieter, better materials and build quality.
Taycan. Weighs. More. Than. Model S.
Taycan. Has. 150. Miles. Less. Range.
It. Is. BRAKE. Not break for the nth time.
It's really hard to take anything you write serious since it looks like it was cribbed from a Porsche ad.