It is so HARD to stay positive about other EV's

It is so HARD to stay positive about other EV's

Don't get me wrong. I WANT the other EV's to succeed. I hope that Porsche gives Tesla a run for its' money in Nuremburg, because that will create a new level of excitement and buzz about going electric. I WANT the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt fill in the gap that exists between minimally compliant and amazingly Tesla.

Easier said, than done.

My beloved Fabio (2014 Model S with almost 180K) was hit and incapacitated near the Supercharger in Birmingham a few weeks ago. After 2 days in a $55/day rental ICE and $80 of fossil fuel- I decided to find a rental EV. After 10 days and $800 drained out of my account, I learned that Fabio will probably be gone for several months. Instead of giving all this money away, it seemed wiser to just buy a backup vehicle. The goal was to find the cheapest vehicle that could meet my basic driving needs.
First stop: Nissan- When I told the salesman that I was interested in the Leaf, he pointed to where the 'new vehicle' lot was, and then turned right back into the building. ZERO interest in making a sale, and none found on the lot
Second stop: Hyundai- Salesman very nice, and even found someone that was familiar with the electric Ioniq... She was able to confirm that they are not sold in the state of Florida, and their were none for sale within a 500 mile radius.
Third stop: Chevrolet- Short story- they had one available, and they were willing to sell it at a price I was willing to pay. Let the buyers regret kick in...

Considering that the Model 3 and the Chevy Bolt are listed in the same price range, it is difficult to accept some of the stupidity in the choices Chevy made, like:
1) They chose CCS/SAE: the least available and most inconvenient of the 'fast charging' options available (Tesla Supercharger, CHaDeMo, and CCS/SAE).
2) For home charging, it comes only with a 110, super slow charging cord and there is no adapters for use on a 30 or 50 amp outlet. So, the choices are super slow, expensive, or limited availability.
3) It doesn't have a built in Nav system. You have to have a smart phone plugged, and if you want to find the next available CCS during a roadtrip, you have the choice of looking at your phone to browse Plugshare, or pay a monthly OnStar navigation subscription for them to help you find it. But wait- there's more... On Start can't tell what kind of charging location it is, whether it is free, whether it is open. They also can't tell you too far in advance. I called to let them know I was heading to Asheville, and would like to stop at the first available CCS/SAE enroute. Mission impossible. We were on the phone a full hour, before she was able to come up with an answer. This is just not compatible with spontaneous roadtripping
4)The AC is a major energy sucking system. In order to even get close to the theoretic 240 miles of range, I would have to get an average of 4 miles/KwH. Tis can be accomplished by having the AC off and driving at moderate speeds. Once the AC is turned on (even at a conservative 75 degrees), I am lucky if I can get 2 miles/KwH range.
5. I've tested the 'lane assist' function. It is supposed to ping me back into my lane if I go over the line, but even with the best marked roads- I've only been able to get it to respond twice, in over twenty intentional sways over the line. Maybe it only works at certain speeds, or only if there is also a car on the other side of the line. I don't know, but I definitely don't feel any safer with it turned on.

Despite all this whining, I still see this vehicle as a viable option for the average driver. The range is more than enough to compfortably handle a days worth of driving. Even with the AC turned on, most people would be able to go about their day without range anxiety. It is far better than driving an ICE, but no where near the Tesla experience.

NKYTA | 17 september 2019

Sorry to hear about Fabio, hope you made it through unscathed!

Could you even make it to Custer in the Bolt? Doesn’t sound like it would be as fun as your epic Tesla travels, even if.

sklancha | 17 september 2019

Custer in the Bolt? LOLOLOLOL

I have doubts that I could even make it out of Florida without a LOT of planning and doubling my anticipated travel time. I am tempted to really to do my previously planned Asheville trip this upcoming weekend, but only because I want it to be viable- and I am not sure what will make me suffer more: not traveling for the next few months, or traveling in a Bolt for that timeframe.


SamO | 17 september 2019

Thank you for that perfect encapsulation of why, for the most part, Tesla’s goal of accelerating the advent of sustainable transportation has been unrealized.

Tesla has done everything possible.

GM has done the absolute least.

Very sad for humanity and the planet. Good for TSLA since their market is going to be enormous.

raffidesigns | 17 september 2019

It’s more the sales guys that are still focusing on the gas instead of EV. If they put the same amount of energy into selling EV’s would all be a success. Tesla’s success is direct customer approach. The showroom is for your entertainment. I love the Porsche Taycan. I’m not afraid to admit it. In white…. Damn. I’m excited. I’m excited to see what others bring. (Ford F-150 EV, Mercedes…etc. I don’t see these companies as competitors. We’re all working for a better future. Tesla is just pushing a bit further with the Autonomous ability.

The OG KP | 17 september 2019

Bummer about Fabio, Angel!! What happened at the supercharger??

So, did you buy the Bolt, or lease it? If you bought it, do you have plans with it when you get Fabio back? I think I would have had a hard time spending that money on such an inferior EV unless they gave it to me. Did you consider a model 3 - even a used one - instead?

The OG KP | 17 september 2019

*Plans FOR it.

Shesmyne2 | 17 september 2019

Sorry to hear about Fabio! Owwie.
Appreciate the observations, and yes, it makes you appreciate Fabio even more.
Seems to me if it’s gonna be ‘awhile’ you should get used to travel in it.
Asheville sounds like a good start.
Travel safely, my friend. Glad you’re ok.

Still Grinning ;-)

sklancha | 17 september 2019

@OG KP- I just finished charging and was and moved all of 3 or 4 parking spaces towards the exit when someone peeled out of his parking space. He hit the right front corner of Fabio hard enough to jam the tire well into the tire. The insurance denied coverage because the guy was explicitly left off the coverage and his personal car insurance has not been particularly responsive. Very frustrating and problematic.

At this time, I’m thinking of making the Bolt available through Turo for fellow Tesla owners wanting an EV while their Tesla is being serviced or repaired. I’m hoping that their are enough of us that would choose a mediocre EV over an ICE, when Tesla doesn’t have a spare company vehicle. Otherwise, I will have an unused EV collecting dust (or pollen, since it is Florida). I know I personally have tried to get an EV whenever Fabio was in the shop and would have gladly paid a little out of pocket for the EV versus ICE upgrade.

If that doesn’t pan out... idk... open for suggestions.

My #1 choice was a base Model 3, but I didn’t trust myself to settle for a stripped model. I felt I could justify $23.5 K (after 1/2 tax rebate), and that was kind of pushing the insanity of a second car in a single person household. Legacy car manufacturers need idiots like me to support their sluggish progression into mediocrity.

Maybe a little more time and education in the archaic sense of futurism

The OG KP | 17 september 2019

Turo in general isn't a bad idea if you are ok with the risk and have good insurance. (or, Turo does. not sure how that works.) At least make some money. I'd prefer to rent an EV in general, even if for vacation.

Too bad there wasn't a LR RWD on the used market. That would have been good for Turo, too.

Mathew98 | 17 september 2019

Oh no! That's adding insult to injury. Getting an impotent Bolt as a back up? Get out of town!

Could have picked up a well used S60 for $30K...

PrescottRichard | 17 september 2019

Maybe you could get paid to write a series or articles on your experiences?

Now-er-days the route to go is a series of videos. Take trips that you did in the Tesla with the Bolt and note the differences / similarities.

Tesla gives out Uber credits now, but to take advantage of that you have to drive so that prolly isn’t too helpful.

Bighorn | 17 september 2019

Met an 85 driver last week who just paid $32k. Seen a bunch of second hand owners taking advantage of their FUSC. Hope the Bolt has a sunroof so Apollo can fit his head.

2015P90DI | 17 september 2019

Don't necessarily disagree with the title of the post, but the information following is quite inaccurate.

NKYTA | 17 september 2019


The posters above you are more than trusted.

You are not.

vpoz | 18 september 2019

I have to put in a vote for a Leaf.
Cost me 1/3 the price of my MS and apart from having 3/5 of the range no pano roof and being a bit smaller inside it’s got everything my MS has plus all round camera view for parking.

nwfan | 18 september 2019

I'm one of those idiot single person households with two Tesla's.
Model S and 3.

I'm position for robotaxi....

1BadNerd | 18 september 2019

Very sorry to here about Fabio!

It’s not surprising about the other EVs. Even when the ICE dinosaurs make a brand new EV, they still have their legacy baggage. That’s why the prefer hybrids—they get to use the billions in capital already invested in ICE production.

sklancha | 18 september 2019

I was just reading the warranty manual for the battery...
The good news: The battery warranty is up to 100,000 miles,
The bad news: Up to 40% degradation can be considered normal!

neezer | 18 september 2019

"I hope that Porsche gives Tesla a run for its' money in Nuremburg"

Yeah....unless Tesla was found to have committed war crimes in WW2, I don't think Porsche will be doing anything to them in Nuremberg.

sklancha | 18 september 2019

Nurburgring... Cut me a break- I was only a few [hundred] kilometres off

hsuru4u | 18 september 2019

wish the ZOE was avail in usa!!!!

thranx | 18 september 2019

@Matthew98: "Could have picked up a well used S60 for $30K..."

And probably received a chunk of cash back if and when reselling same.

sklancha | 18 september 2019

Are you guys just trying to grind a little salt in the wound? ;)

Mathew98 | 18 september 2019

Trying to keep it all in the family.

PS - Don't get caught charging after hours at the dealership and avoid the phone sex hotline...

sklancha | 18 september 2019

aaah, a fresh reminder of the infamous Leaf adventures. The PTSD from those dark days of EV life might be why the thoughts of trippin’ in the Bolt is triggering PTSD flashbacks

2015P90DI | 18 september 2019

NKYTA | September 17, 2019

The posters above you are more than trusted.


Just because they're "trusted" doesn't change the facts of information being accurate or inaccurate. Didn't say he was a troll or bash him like many of the classless people on this site do. Just pointed out that there's a lot of inaccurate information in the post. Quite simple. So anyone reading the post and consider a Tesla or other EV, check the facts is all.

Sorry you don't like my straight to the point honest approach, positive or negative, but trust me, I don't post on this site to please you or any of the other's that call the Tesla forums their second (or maybe first) home, hitting the "refresh" button every 10 seconds.

The OG KP | 19 september 2019

Does the Bolt have a no questions asked return policy? ;-)

sklancha | 19 september 2019

@2015P90Dl This is the second time you are reporting inaccuracies with my post. You can add value to your responses and some credibility to your claim, if you actually let us know why you believe I got it wrong. As the title says, I want to stay positive about other EV's.

Also- you come across as a tad hypersensitive to NKYTA's simple statement...
I am not known for hyperbolic posts. Observations are posted as observations. Experiences are posted as experiences. Facts are not fudged. Hence, the trust. Of course there is plenty of room for inaccuracies. Maybe the salesman lied to me or didn't know all the facts. Maybe OnStar has a magic phrase that gets me to the right type of assistance. Maybe I misquoted/misread the warranty manual. If any of that is the case, than a more useful contribution to the thread- is to provide the clarification.So your 'straight to the point honest approach...' iself analysis is disingenuous, at best.


Mathew98 | 19 september 2019

D'oh, let's discard all the info from seasoned, verified owners. But let's trust the lone contrarian who claimed to have purchased a dozen Teslas in 6 years.

Perhaps the cars have been so unreliable that he had to upgrade every 6 months. But why would he keep on bashing Tesla but trade each one in for a newer version every dang time???

sklancha | 19 september 2019

@nwfan- maybe an idiot savant, since you made the genius move to make the second vehicle a Tesla ;)

@The OG KP- interesting question.............................

NKYTA | 19 september 2019

"but the information following is quite inaccurate"

^^ this ^^ is inaccurate.

SamO | 19 september 2019

Doesn't mention a single item that is inaccurate and then take umbrage. Sounds like troll moves to me.

sklancha | 19 september 2019

At first I thought nothing would make me happier than to be wrong, but that only works if the inaccuracies are revealed.

sklancha | 23 september 2019

Good news ish - I've been able to get the 'lane assist' in the Bolt to work a few more times! And I've learned that it apparently just deactivates itself at slower speeds. It also deactivates itself at apparent random times -or I just can't figure out what makes it decide I don't need it- at higher speeds. When the little lane assist picture disappears from the screen, that means the Bolt has decided to bolt. Bottom line, it is very important that you pay attention to your dash if you aren't paying close attention to the road.

PBEndo | 23 september 2019

Maybe a new state-of-the-art, faster-than-fast supercharger coming to your neck of the woods is reason enough to get a Model 3.

sklancha | 24 september 2019

O M G ! That happens to be in the vicinity of my favorite fishing too! I really don't need any help drooling over a Tesla as a back up vehicle- thank you very much. I'm barely able to justify buying a cheap second EV! The peer pressure is killing me!

dougk71 | 24 september 2019

Tesla doesn't plan to be the only manufacturer of EVs. It plans to be the best but if EVs are to replace ICE vehicles then the other manufacturers need to step up. The issue is that their EVs have to be credible enough that they don't dissuade their current ICE customers from buying EV's.

PhillyGal | 24 september 2019

Aww man, I know I'm late but so sorry to hear about your car. Glad you're okay.

I almost bought an i3 after we already owned a Model S (while waiting for the 3) but the dealerships were not that interested in making a deal. Glad I dodged that bullet but I did have high expectations for the Bolt. Bummer to hear it's not as good as it could be.

Mathew98 | 24 september 2019

On the bright side, Woz thought this Bolt was a better commuter EV than his MS.

I wonder if his remark wad made before or after he squeezed his double wide rear end to the tiny driver seat.

Mike83 | 24 september 2019

Woz should cut down on the Galumpkis

I have a friend who had a bolt losing time having to charge the thing. She even tried to charge it at a dealership and it was iced; they moved the ICE and the charger didn't work. Not a long distance car. For local I use an electric bike which is fun sometimes.

sklancha | 24 september 2019

I agree that it has all the signs of being designed as a commuter car without the range anxiety. It is just a shame, though. It would not have taken that much more effort to make it a viable road trippin' car, if they wanted it to be.. Chevy (and the new Nissan Leaf] did one thing that Tesla didn't, which seems to lure a certain segment of potential future EV owners: They designed it to feel 'comfortably familiar' to those that don't like big change. I went to an EV car event this weekend, and the Bolt and new Leaf were a big hit to those that (as one patron put it) was ready for the car, but wanted it to feel like a horse. The Bolt has all kinds of old school knobs, and even has a 'stick shift' in the center that apparently makes the car feel 'normal'.
So, there's that....

Mathew98 | 24 september 2019

I feel like dancing the night away! One step forward and two steps back. Yup, it about sums it up for all these mass market EVs.

PrescottRichard | 24 september 2019

Sklancha- You name a good point, my parents and some others who aren’t that old are not interested because it ‘looks’ so high tech. Funny thing is they drive a 2005 Prius which has all kinds of weird stuff bolted onto the dash. Still, trying to get them to consider a Model 3 is a fool’s errand.

Which is fine, they’ll drive that Prius until, well, one of them stops working.

dukeybootie | 25 september 2019

Our household has put 92,000 miles on our Model S and 17,000 miles on our Bolt and we love them both. Not going to cover what the Model S does better in this crowd, but here are the advantages of the Bolt:

-cost (I'd bet average transaction cost, even vs Model 3, is much lower)
-more traditional interior layout, door handles, etc (subjective, I know)
-much easier ingress/egress (including rear seats for those with kids and car seats)
-outward visibility
-360 degree camera
-ease of parking (a big deal for those of us who hate door dings and are surrounded by narrow parking spaces where we work/shop/play)

Still get HOV/BEV access and privileges as well as cabin preconditioning. No autopilot or supercharging ability but we don't have that expectation or need from the Bolt for our local usage.

-suspension a bit too firm
-front seats could use more cushion
-OEM tires lose traction too easily at launch

For my 100 mile daily work commute, the Model S is unbeatable.

For all our family's around-town needs, the Bolt is great and we greatly prefer it to the Model S. It's just easier to live with and we don't feel the need to baby it or anything. Jump in, treat it like a borrowed mule, throw strollers and yard waste and sand covered beach toys in the back, park it anywhere without a care. We love it not for its ability to impress anyone other than ourselves.

My 2 cents.

SamO | 25 september 2019


Thanks for the report on your experience. I don't think the S and Bolt are comparable for all the reasons you mention.

But as far as the Bolt vs Model 3, then I think you'll need a bit of revision:

-cost (I'd bet average transaction cost, even vs Model 3, is much lower)
[Nah. If you are so inclined, you can add dual motor and performance, but if you are doing an apples to apples comparison, the SR+ and Bolt are separated by only a few thousand $]

-more traditional interior layout, door handles, etc (subjective, I know)
[The 3 is even more different than the S from the Bolt, but it is also more familiar to an iPhone and thus easier than all the switches and knobs of the Bolt or the multiple screens and levers of the S and X]

-much easier ingress/egress (including rear seats for those with kids and car seats)
[Model 3 is much easier to get in than Model S, harder than Model X.]

-outward visibility, 360 degree camera
[V10 stitches together a 360-degree view with 8 cameras. Much higher definition and Sentry Mode provides better security than multiple dashcams.]

-ease of parking (a big deal for those of us who hate door dings and are surrounded by narrow parking spaces where we work/shop/play)
[Model 3 fits into a compact space quiet easily as I can attest to having to use them throughout the Los Angeles area]


Mathew98 | 25 september 2019

@SamO - You neglected to point to an advantage for Bolt/Leaf/other brands. Owners could use and abuse these other brands regardless of door dings or shopping carts.

It's unlikely M3 owners would treat their cars like pizza delivery vehicles...

Bighorn | 25 september 2019

There is a real freedom in driving a beater.

Earl and Nagin ... | 25 september 2019

"There is a real freedom in driving a beater." -Bighorn

This is the main reason we bought a Leaf instead of a Model S. We needed something I could beat up commuting.
The 3 is a bit on the nice side for this but its such a great overall car that it serve nearly all of our driving on pavement. Still keep the truck around for off-road and hauling big and dirty stuff.

Mathew98 | 25 september 2019

When do you get the chance to drive a Roadster?

neezer | 25 september 2019

Watch how rapidly the opinion of the Bolt and Kona turn into garbage piles after the Model 3 is tried ... lol