Forums

Stirling heat pumps for heating el. cars

Stirling heat pumps for heating el. cars

Tesla could use a heat pump for heating based on a Stirling engine. Of course, not the kind we know today, but slightly modified, so that heating and cooling would be easier than ever. I think most electric cars will need something very innovative for heating and cooling and I can offer that. I would like to introduce a completely reliable and simple system to Tesla, maybe anyone knows the process for submitting inventions to Tesla?

jimglas | 7 oktober 2019

send a tweet to elon

TeslaTap.com | 7 oktober 2019

Tesla will not be interested in adding a gas engine to the car, just to heat the cabin. Sounds like it would be far more costly, complex, and requires filling up at a gas station just to get cabin heat. It goes against a number of desires Tesla has, including avoiding pollution. Sorry, but this sounds very bad on so many levels.

Now the Leaf does use an electric heat pump that seems to work well, but it is still a bit more expensive than the Tesla solution, but perhaps a bit more efficient. It seems the heat pump was more critical in a car with a very limited range. Not as much of an issue in an EV with a large battery, such as Tesla offers.

ttoomm1 | 8 oktober 2019

Normally, electric cars will not be heated by gas ... In the reverse process, Stirling can be driven by an electric motor and then act as a heat pump. This can still be complicated and expensive, but my modified Stirling variant simplified things to the end. I am convinced that this is the future of electric vehicle heating, since it cannot be simpler and more cost effective, but I am only talking about cars, not to mention everything else. Current heat pumps are something special, the future of heating, but still far too complicated, I think I have managed to simplify this matter a lot.

Techy James | 8 oktober 2019

Maybe you should look at the Heating/Cooling system that Tesla designed for the Model 3. Having the Model 3, I can say while my WH Per Mile increases more using Heat versus AC. But the system is very efficient, and even uses 1 Heating/Cooling system for both cabin and battery pack. The system design made it to several uTube videos. So not sure what motive Tesla would have to change a system that is already hail as truly innovative solution for EV's that hasn't been seen with any other manufacture.
As for heat pumps, they are good in southern states where the Temperatures mostly stays above the freezing mark, but there is a reason you don't see them in the North when temperatures go way south of -F temperatures. Who would want an EV if the battery heating system is unable to handle -30F temperatures if they live in a area that sees those temperatures a few times a year?

ttoomm1 | 8 oktober 2019

I believe that the HVAC system for Tesla 3 is already an extremely sophisticated system. However, there is still room for improvement, with my modified Stirling variant simply missing out on a lot of unnecessary things like: fans, heat exchangers, liquids ... saving a lot of space and taking advantage of ambient heat.

rob | 8 oktober 2019

Sterling engine does not use gas.

I was wondering why Tesla didn't go w/ solid state heating/cooling... Probably way to inefficient.

rxlawdude | 8 oktober 2019

Where's @Silver in this sterling discussion?

jrweiss98020 | 9 oktober 2019

I wonder how difficult it would be to turn the AC system into a reversible cycle heat pump... Augment that with heat from the battery/motor cooling system (if not done already).

TeslaTap.com | 9 oktober 2019

@rob - A Stirling engine requires a significant heat source like burning gas and ideally a cooling source like cool water. They do suffer from slow startup. I suppose you could use resistive heating, but why? You'd lose at least 50% efficiency in an EV over just using resistive heating. Perhaps I'm missing something, but this seems like a wacky idea. Perhaps Tesla can wait until the large car companies can figure it out, although other car companies have spent a ton of sterling R&D in the past and can't get it out of the labs.

@jrweiss- Very difficult for an owner. Not so difficult for a new design. Still, there are conditions where Tesla needs to cool the battery while heating the cabin. So you'd need to create two entirely separate systems - which adds expense, weight, complexity and consumes cargo space. Each design approach has tradeoffs, and it seems Tesla has chosen the best set of tradeoffs right now.

ttoomm1 | 10 oktober 2019

Stirling can also work in reverse, that is, it is powered by an electric motor, in which case no heat or gas is used ... in which case it is converted into an ideal heat pump that captures heat from the environment, even when very cold outside ... of course the current Stirling variant needs to be modified a bit in this case and my invention does just that ...

Battery cooling and cabin heating are ideal in the case of a Stirling heat pump, with the highest efficiency, my variant of this machine is greatly simplified, a lot of extra parts are wasted, saving on cost and space in the car

sabbia | 10 oktober 2019

@ttoomm1 you may have a good idea or you may not. I'm not encouraging you to stop posting about your invention here, but this is an odd audience. There are some here who care not a whit about science and only post to screw up these threads. Others are deeply curious and honest.

You won't convince Tesla motors by explaining or promoting here. We might find innovation interesting but those of us here have no authority.

If your idea is truly good, have you sought to patent it?

jrweiss98020 | 10 oktober 2019

"Still, there are conditions where Tesla needs to cool the battery while heating the cabin. So you'd need to create two entirely separate systems - which adds expense, weight, complexity and consumes cargo space."

In that case, heat from the batteries could be dumped into the cabin. Maybe a couple more pipes & valves to the existing system? That's essentially how the heater in an ICE works...

jordanrichard | 10 oktober 2019

Will this system use less energy than the current system? If not, it's DOA.

ttoomm1 | 10 oktober 2019

Heat pumps are more efficient because they capture the heat from the environment, even when it's cold, except at extremely low temperatures, and my engine reworking makes it possible to waste quite a few unnecessary things in the system, which saves money and saves space.

ttoomm1 | 10 oktober 2019

Heat pumps are more efficient because they capture the heat from the environment, even when it's cold, except at extremely low temperatures, and my engine reworking makes it possible to waste quite a few unnecessary things in the system, which saves money and saves space.

TeslaTap.com | 10 oktober 2019

@sabbia - Nicely stated.

@ttoomm1 - if you have it figured out, perhaps the next step is to create a prototype and prove out the feasibility both in function and cost. A patent would be smart to protect your invention too. Clearly the resistive heater is not ideal in an EV, so something more efficient may be of interest to Tesla and others. I do know that it can be very difficult for the right person at a company (Tesla or others). Many companies also suffer from "Not-invented-here" syndrome, although I'd hope Tesla is better than that. Good luck!

ttoomm1 | 10 oktober 2019

Fortunately, Stirling has already been tried and tested, so the protection can be implemented very soon, but it still needs some start-up capital and a smaller team to get started, as far as Tesla is concerned, many manufacturers will be looking for economical future electric car heating solution.

Xerogas | 11 oktober 2019

@ttoomm1: get a job at Tesla, and make it happen!

sabbia | 13 oktober 2019

@ttoom I am not a patent lawyer so please do not rely on my advice. I think you should, however, seek a patent lawyer's advice. Good advice should inform you as to the likelihood of protection, costs and extent of protection. It seems to me that your October 10 comment suggests one or two misunderstandings. Again, I'm not a lawyer.