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Not giving Enhanced Autopilot Software for 1st production cars? Really?

Not giving Enhanced Autopilot Software for 1st production cars? Really?

Don't you guys frustrated that Tesla is not giving a complementary Enhanced Autopilot at least to people who reserved the car on March 31st and waited for almost 2 years? It is software only, no hardware change required. Why would they include useless 'premium' package and not Autopilot?...

weluvm3 | 1 august 2017

OK, get prepared to be "shouted down" by the usual suspects for voicing this opinion.

FYI, I actually happen to agree with you. In fact, I even think it would be in Tesla's best interests, for reasons I've given elsewhere.

lilbean | 1 august 2017

Lame. It's hilarious you guys want free stuff for being in line. Entitled much?

Mr.Tesla | 1 august 2017

This has been addressed many times.

The idea of "no cost" software is a fallacy. Software doesn't magically appear. It is a product that has to be "produced." The stakes are very high, when it comes to self-driving software, so that multiplies the research, engineering, and testing costs by an order of magnitude. Also, for this kind of software, it will NEVER be "finished". New data, new roads, new capabilities forever ad infinitum, etc, and so on!

ilya.email | 1 august 2017

lilbean, at least the ability to choose between 2?

SUN 2 DRV | 1 august 2017

"at least the ability to choose between 2"

No, the whole point of the First Production configuration is to REDUCE the number of options they have to build.

Ehninger1212 | 1 august 2017

That would be rediculous. In fact we shouldn't expect anything short of just an amazing new ride in a timely manner.

dylan.dtl | 1 august 2017

Software can be incredibly expensive to create. As a manager at a large software company I can tell you it can take millions upon millions to create what they have with their system. I wouldn't expect them to give it to me simply because I signed up early.

akgolf | 1 august 2017

Next you'll tell me I have to pay extra for better wheels or more range or premium interiors. When will it end and why can't they include all of that for $35K, maybe not for everyone but at least those that ordered on the first day, or maybe the first week.

And why do I have to make payments, for crying out loud I reserved on the first day. Surely they make enough they can take care of that little bit.

Tesla2018 | 1 august 2017

Maybe they should give the free self driving $3000 upgrage to those who want to voluteer be beta testers. They could then use the statistics to see how many people survive crashes in the event that it doesnt work as planned. :)

JustSaying | 1 august 2017

A great present for 3/31 reservation holders, that would not cost Tesla as much as giving away the EA hardware already installed in the M3, might be free supercharging for life at any Supercharger outside of a 100 mile radius (+/-) of the registered address of the car.

Mr.Tesla | 1 august 2017

Fuzzy dice for hanging on the rear view mirror, once FSD is enabled, of course.

A choice of fuzz colors would really sweeten the deal.

elephant in a bottle | 1 august 2017

It boggles my mind how Tesla is able to price the base M3 at $35k. We all know that the batteries would be the most expensive item there. But how about that supercomputer that Elon mentioned that can do 10 teraops.. that's computing power close to 150 mac books.. per what I've gathered, this costs $10-15k by itself only.. those ultrasonic sensors and cameras aren't cheapos as well.. then you have to pay these top notch software engineers..

Those wishing to get EAP for free should give it up.. it aint gonna happen.

Bighorn | 1 august 2017

It's already complementary.

Shalinv | 1 august 2017

I'll add my two cents.. I expect Tesla to do something special than handing out M3 sketch to those who really believed in Tesla story without even seeing M3 but I dont think Tesla will take any decision that will effect their bottom line. In order to survive, they need to show profit.

Woodsonpd | 1 august 2017

$5,000 software for free for 130,000 cars is a lost revenue of 650 million dollars. But please tell me why it costs tesla nothing to do this, and why they should give you $5,000 for standing in line or reserving early.

Woodsonpd | 1 august 2017

@elephant nvidia's 1080ti graphics card can do over 11 teraflops for $599, a consumer graphics card.... far from 10-15k. A MacBook is a terrible comparison for graphics performance compared to cost.

PhillyGal | 1 august 2017

Consider me a "usual suspect" then because as Woodsonpd noted, $650M is about $649M too much to spend on a freebie. Why should a company spending like crazy to innovate at an unheard of rate give away anything that valuable?

Even if the software development was free (ha!) do you know how much money is probably being spent on navigating the regulatory nightmares?

rpad.tv | 1 august 2017

"complementary Enhanced Autopilot" You want it to speak nicely to other cars?

Seriously, I don't understand the frustration. The EAP development is ongoing. Talented software engineers are expensive. Expecting it for free is silly.

Bighorn | 1 august 2017
weluvm3 | 1 august 2017

@ilya.email Ha! told ya so!

But, all kidding aside, here's a couple of things Tesla COULD easily do, which wouldn't cost them a penny and be a very nice gesture:

1. Allow people to delay purchasing EAP by a few months (6, for example), and still charge them the same $5,000. That would allow early purchasers to use the proceeds from their tax rebate to pay for EAP (assuming they file their taxes by then, or get CA's rebate.) And they would save some money on licensing and such.

2. Allow early purchasers to delay purchasing FSD until it can actually DO something, and still pay the same $3,000 when they do. Set a cutoff date, beyond which, if they still haven't activated, they pay $4,000.

Now, again, prepare to see these perfectly fair and reasonable suggestions get shot down. I mean, obviously, anyone who would propose anything besides what Tesla is currently offering must be full of sh-t, right?? :-) Gotta love those fan boys!

elephant in a bottle | 1 august 2017

Also per elektrek , nvidia sells these nvidia px2s dev kits for 15k per unit.
https://electrek.co/2016/10/21/all-new-teslas-are-equipped-with-nvidias-...

Woodsonpd | 1 august 2017

@elephant did you read what you linked? All the comments go on to talk about how it's not $10,000, but somewhere around $300-$800. Do you seriously think they're putting a $10,000 computer in the car?

rpad.tv | 1 august 2017

@fiddlesticks That's far more reasonable than expecting it for free. That would be a nice gesture. Now that that's out of the way, I'm still trying to figure out how EAP can be "complementary" as per the OP.

elephant in a bottle | 1 august 2017

@woodsonpd See the elektrek link. Tesla is probably getting volume pricing or perhaps this hw is on consignment.

PhillyGal | 1 august 2017

@fiddlesticks - Why are you knocking so hard on existing owners? The name calling?
Your suggestions on offering it at the same price is a very reasonable idea, especially with the tax credit consideration in the US.

My dream would still be some kind of 3/31 marking on the car but that would make production more complex so I'm sure we won't get that.

bottesini | 1 august 2017

Fiddle baby, allow me a shot. I think that you might possibly agree that all of us would like this company to remain in business for awhile, and we, being such financial sophisticates, are also very well aware that it's burning thru cash at warp speed, and a huge percentage of its stock is in the hands of short sellers who are not only praying that it goes deeply south, but saying anything that comes into their minds to help that wish along so that they won't lose their Gucci jock straps and have to sell either their town house on the upper East Side or their summer getaway in Nice in order to cover their asses if our favorite store-on-the-mall manages to hang on for the next couple of years. Knowing all of this, in addition to wowing us with your business acumen, the best you can come up with suggestions on how to delay $$$s from entering the company coffers, when what the need right now is more of the green stuff.

Mr.Tesla | 1 august 2017

So clever to predict people would call out unrealistic wishes for what they are. So impressively clever.

burdogg | 1 august 2017

So wait, are you saying they gave free premium package??? Your last statement makes no sense.

Now for a usual suspect response I guess....

First - did you stand in line because you Thought you would get something for free?

Why did you stand in line??

No one made you stand in line to get the car right???

No - you all stood in line because you wanted to get your car faster, be first in line, get car first - right??? Right!

So, since Elon wanted to say thank you - now you have run amuck thinking you should get some fantastic expensive thing.

Sure - it sounds great and who wouldn't love it - I for one would love to get it for free - hey that is a $5,000 gift for me for what....doing nothing different than what I planned on doing right??? You and I went to get in line to get the car as fast as we could. That is end of story.

Now, oh, the insanity. I can't believe they are not giving away free money? Software is not free. All the hardware on the car is not free. They have a balance point - so many people have to buy enhanced autopilot to outweigh those that choose not too, but yet have the hardware, and to continue to pay for development. EAP is NOT there yet, there is still many many hours going into its development - trust me, it is not on par with AP 1.0 (I have both!) So to think it costs them nothing is flat stupid.

Ok, now call me a usual suspect, but hey, I don't believe Tesla can do no wrong, I am not a ra ra guy. There are things that they can do, things I don't like, etc.... but this bashing over a "free" gift that we should get is funny.

akgolf | 1 august 2017

So bottom line burdogg, you don't think they'll give me a free car just because I reserved sight unseen on the first day?

That seems so unfair:(

burdogg | 1 august 2017

I can't predict everything so I may be way off - But I can hope that you and I and the other 180,000 would get such a gift....

Sadly, I think I have to say no though. I shook the magic 8 ball again and it just said don't count on it - do you want me to go for a third shake?

Chargedmr2 | 1 august 2017

OP has a right to voice this opinion. And others have a right to strongly disagree. Personally, I'm repulsed by the entitlement. You think you deserve a $5,000 option for spending a few hours in line? You're frustrated because you "want it" and Tesla didn't give it to you?

ReD eXiLe ms us | 1 august 2017

Wait... 'complimentary'? For criminysakesalive...

Right click, highlight, 'Hide posts from user'

~*ahhh*~...

.

.

I'm pretty sure that the Hilton Express is not an 'apartment building', but I am not a robot, so what do I know?

ReD eXiLe ms us | 1 august 2017

Now that I've skimmed through some other posts...?

Bighorn is always right. ;-)

csmith476 | 1 august 2017

There already is a perk for reserving early: getting your car early.

Rutrow | 1 august 2017

How much Tesla would lose on allowing later installation of EAP and/or FSD without the extra charge would be based on projections of what percentage of buyers would have opted for them at time of delivery. Does anyone know the ratio for S & X of "first day activators" to "delayers" to "never adders"? At the price level of the S & X vastly more of those owners sprung for those features than 3 owners will, especially FSD! I would project that very few 3 buyers will choose FSD at delivery. Giving the option to delay for first day reservers without penalty would generate a lot of good will among strong supporters without much actual dollar loss.

Shock | 1 august 2017

Complimentary? No.

I have complained about the cost of EAP on this $35k car. It's too much but--and this may be selfish--you are already if you were an early reservist going to get the tail end of the full $7500 tax credit. To get free EAP on top of that is a bit nuts, because somebody a year later would be paying $12,500 more than you.

It's not like you gave them a lot of money. $1k. That $1k buys you an early spot in the line. That's really all it's worth.

dsvick | 2 august 2017

I love how people think that they are entitled to something insanely expensive because they decided, all on their own, to stand in line for something that no one told them, or pressured them, to get. I want to go buy a new BBQ grill, maybe they'll give me free propane for life or a free rotisserie or something if I stand in front of the store before it opens ...

JAD | 2 august 2017

You do realize companies have sales and give things away to create demand, not to be nice. Tesla is not in a position where they need to give you thousands of dollars worth of stuff to get you to take their car. Using the normal dealer model, I would expect the first Model 3 would be selling for nearly double the asking price.

If you want a deal, I am guessing Leaf's and Bolts will be available soon with lots of gifts for you...

Nexxus | 2 august 2017

@burdogg,

While reading the second to the last paragraph:

"Now, oh, the insanity. I can't believe they are not giving away free money? Software is not free. All the hardware on the car is not free. They have a balance point - so many people have to buy enhanced autopilot to outweigh those that choose not too, but yet have the hardware, and to continue to pay for development. EAP is NOT there yet, there is still many many hours going into its development - trust me, it is not on par with AP 1.0 (I have both!) So to think it costs them nothing is flat stupid."

I kept hearing Homer Simpson's voice while reading it. LOL.

I find it really amusing the entitlement people think they deserve sometimes. Sheesh!

jefjes | 2 august 2017

I don't think giving EAP away would make any sound financial sense but I do think allowing a trial period so new owners can see the benefit before deciding not/to order it. If it's really that great, let it sell itself. Maybe the fear is that once experienced, many will decide it's not worth $5k? I think it will be the other way around and many will decide they love it so much that they will gladly pony up the extra money for it rather than have it turned off after a month or so of use.

burdogg | 2 august 2017

Jefjes - they did that with the model S for a month. So they might do this at some point for the 3, but I would think they would wait until they had lots of cars on the road.

weluvm3 | 2 august 2017

@Nexxus it probably cost a lot of money to develop air bags, 3 point restraints, anti-lock brakes, crumple zones, safety glass, etc. etc.

And, yeah, I guess at some point in history, safety features were an additional cost to the consumer.

Could you even buy a car without seat belts today? Could you drive it that way?

And, the interesting thing about seat belts is that they are primarily intended to protect the driver and passengers. EAP and (eventually) FSD are also beneficial to the other cars on the roads and society as a whole if they prevent accidents.

But, yeah, Tesla wants to charge whatever they can for it because....Shock! They are a business. And they want to make money, even if it means that some of their customers may get into avoidable accidents, and other, innocent people will get hurt or killed.

I personally think it should be the law that all car manufacturers provide a certain level of EAP free of charge if the technology exists for it. And that insurance companies and regulatory agencies should mandate that they be used in the same way that seat belts and air bags are required today. But that's just my opinion...

bmalloy0 | 2 august 2017

Fiddlesticks:
"I personally think it should be the law that all car manufacturers provide a certain level of EAP free of charge if the technology exists for it."

We're getting the safety features from EAP for free, what more do you honestly think they should provide free?

akgolf | 2 august 2017

Automatic emergency braking is going to be mandatory by 2022, yet Tesla is making it and other safety features standard on all of their models.

It's possible that EAP and FSD will be mandatory in the future. When it is I feel confident that Tesla will be one of the first to offer it as standard before it's mandatory.

Until then there is development and other hurdles to get done. The need money for that.

You can always go to another manufacturer that will be giving away their tech for free.

akgolf | 2 august 2017

You beat me bmalloy0.

El Mirio | 2 august 2017

Seems not everyone noticed that Model 3 has demand beyond believe, is anti selling the car, did not reach self sustained net profits, so handing out free stuff should be on the bottom of their priorities.

Yes Tesla is trying to do good, why in the world people conclude Tesla should act like a charity will remain a mystery to me.

akgolf | 2 august 2017

Me thinks there are still a few GM folks trying to get rid of some inventory.

Carl Thompson | 2 august 2017

I don't think @Fiddlesticks's idea of giving people a few months to purchase EAP at the discounted rate is so unreasonable. Tesla still gets their money they just get it a little later. After all, Tesla will have had the early reservationist's money for nearly 2 years before they actually deliver the car. We let Tesla hold $1,000 for two years and Tesla lets us hang onto $5,000 for 3 months longer. Seems a fair enough exchange.

But is it necessary that Tesla do this? No. The only benefit that I expected when I waited in line was to be one of the first to get the car. As long as that happens I'm happy.

Carl

Chargedmr2 | 2 august 2017

@fiddlesticks you make some reasonable points, but you also seem to be confounding "free" and "mandatory." Perhaps EAP should be mandatory, but not free. Not even seat belts, airbags, and the other "mandatory" safety features of modern cars are free.

I'm sure autonomous diving will be mandatory at some point, but the cost will simply be baked into the base price of the vehicle.

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