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Autonomous

Autonomous

Dear Trolls,
Before you read this and leave a snarky comment about my creativity. Please provide a link to something original that you created. You must have something under that bridge with you. Maybe it’s a finger painting or something. I would love to see it. If you are going to critique creativity you surely must have created something other than a two sentence comment degrading someones creativity. You must surely have made something without degrading or offending someone you don’t know. You must have something pure left in that wrinkled prune of a heart.

Autonomous vehicles are terrifying no matter how you look at it. Putting life in the hands of a computer is a huge leap for some. When you ride in a car or drive one, you rely on trust. Trust of yourself or the person driving. You don’t typically get into a car with a drunk driver because you don’t totally trust their abilities in those moments of intoxication. For some, getting into an autonomous vehicle would be like letting the drunk sit on your lap while you both drive. You will likely get home just fine, however there was the fear the drunk was going to pull the steering wheel or hit the brakes. The drunk on your lap driving down the road could’ve killed you and only someone with nothing to loose would take that ride.

Of course an autonomous vehicle will out preform any driver. What is it thinking though? It’s a form of AI so what’s stopping it from putting on the brakes? Its software is, however software is imperfect and can get damaged. What if the right brake system glitches because of moisture? Or the steering? Have you ever seen your computer crash? Anything is possible when you take the control away from the controller. There is an override but if you need to press that button, then it’s probably too late.

Glitches aside, hacking is an even greater danger with these vehicles. Nothing is impossible and people will hack and stealing a car will be just be a few key strokes. Or if you are undesirable, people will not need to get their hands dirty. All they need is a keyboard and they can put you into the guardrail. When you die in a car accident controlled by a computer who is to blame? Not Tesla I assure you. No one is to blame, your death was caused by an error or an impossible avoidance instance. People get in accidents every day and most are due to negligence. This will save some lives however it will take the responsibility away from people. Drink as much as you like because the car is driving.

Autonomous vehicles are coming there’s no doubt. Tesla won’t be the only one producing these vehicles. Tesla is a great company and I trust the people there and their abilities. Tesla will have competition and I can’t say that I trust all the auto manufacturers and their ability not to cut corners. Non Autonomy should and will likely always be an option though. People have little trust of people and even less trust for machines.

EVRider | 8 marts 2018

Do you expect anyone to take you seriously when start your post with “Dear Trolls”?

kurtzite | 8 marts 2018

I don't expect anything. If you arn't a troll and you'd like to read what I wrote. You are more than welcome to come up with a genuine thought related to the topic presented. If you actually read dear trolls, you would know that critiquing me is not the point of this forum.

kurtzite | 8 marts 2018

EVRider please provide a like to something you created. That is the rules...

hoffmannjames | 8 marts 2018

1) Your title is not very descriptive. Surely, you could have written more than just 1 word, no?
2) You really should not start a thread with "dear trolls" because it alienates your reader before you even give them a chance to read what you have to say.
3) You really don't understand how autonomous cars work.

kurtzite | 8 marts 2018

hoffmannjames I'm sorry for alienating you but please provide a link to something you created. Then tell me about autonomous vehicles, since you are so versed on the subject.

hoffmannjames | 8 marts 2018

Your requirement is ridiculous. You don't provide a link to anything you created but I am not allowed to even express my opinion on your opinion unless I link to something I created? That is a double standard. Give me a link to something you created! You posted your opinion. I have the right to post my response and my opinion. That's how a forum works. You can't just post your opinion with no support but demand that others only respond to you if they provide proof of their expertise.

Tropopause | 8 marts 2018

I’d trust a FSD vehicle any day over the young generation TWD’ers. 35,000 deaths in the USA. 1,000,000 worldwide.

hoffmannjames | 8 marts 2018

@kurtzite Have you watched the Waymo videos of their self-driving cars already on the road now? They are very trustworthy. I would trust them more than a human driver.

kurtzite | 8 marts 2018

I only suggest you have created something before you critique my forum post of which I created and not you... I don't think you can link anything it wont let me in the comments Mwahahaha. Yes I believe in the ability of the autonomous vehicles to out perform people. I just suggest that the people that die in accidents will be caused by different means other than negligence. Autonomous vehicles at least some will allow for a third party interface and you will be whim to whatever the hacker wills. The guidelines of how you should make autonomous vehicles isn't clear and automakers will vary. I know that overtime electronics fail due to moisture and heat. Under maintenance will likely lead to system failures in the autonomous systems in the vehicles.

kurtzite | 8 marts 2018

You didn't post an opinion originally hoffmannjames, you posted a critique on my formatting skills. Unrelated to the forum topic. If you read the beginning once again. You would know that you need to provide a link because only trolls would care about my formatting rather the topic at hand. Your opinion originally was of me and my ability and not the forum topic.

hoffmannjames | 8 marts 2018

I am still unclear about what you are asking. What I am supposed to create? Do I have to write a blog on the subject and link to it? Do I have to write a technical article in a journal? And why is this a requirement to post my opinion on what you wrote? You don't accept other people's opinion unless they can prove that they have written something on the subject? Your requirement makes no sense.

hoffmannjames | 8 marts 2018

I have posted my thoughts on self-driving cars many times. You want me to respond to your post with a long post of my own on the topic of self-driving cars?

kurtzite | 8 marts 2018

Exactly. I think you got it. This was forum about a consumer opinion and view of autonomous vehicles and thus your post should relate to that. Not 1. your title is too short 2. that's not how you start a thread 3. you don't know what you are talking about.
This was a post about a belief and a fear of mine. It is a fear that many might share. If you don't that's fine. Posting reasons of why I'm wrong and how safe it is may change me and others to be on your side of the argument. Your side is definitely winning no doubt. I do hope you are correct and my fears are just that.

hoffmannjames | 8 marts 2018

Fine. Let's talk about your post.

Your first fear of not being able to trust the autonomous car is completely unfounded. Autonomous cars are not artificial intelligent robots as you seem to think. They can't think on their own or have a will of their own. They won't "decide" to veer into a car or try to kill you. You compare autonomous cars to a drunk which is a silly comparison. A drunk is someone with impaired judgment and capabilities. An autonomous car is the exact opposite. It can never get tired or impaired. An autonomous car is simply a computer that is programmed to perform driving functions. It has sensors including cameras, radar, ultrasonics and some cars also have LIDAR. These sensors cover all 360 degrees so unlike a human driver, an autonomous car has no blind spots. In fact, the sensors give the car far better perception of its environment than any human. It will be able to "see" through fog or heavy rain, unlike a human driver. So autonomous cars will be far more trustworthy than a human. Ask yourself this question: would you trust a human who might be tired or drunk or would you trust a machine with perfect 360 degree vision and that never gets tired, impaired or distracted? Obviously, the machine would be far more trustworthy.

Your second fear of hacking is also unfounded. Companies like Google and Tesla are well aware of the risks of hacking and will take every possible precaution against it. This means super encryption. In addition, the cars will probably be non-networked when they are driving with all the software on board but disconnected from a network during autonomous mode so that a hacker is physically incapable of connecting to the car remotely. The only times the car will be connected to the network to receive updates and such will be when it is safely parked and locked out from driving. That way, even if somehow, by some miracle, the hacker was able to penetrate all the encryption they would be unable to drive the car.

That is just a brief explanation of why you have nothing to worry about.

up north | 8 marts 2018

Self driving cars don’t need to go 145 mph, 0to60 in 5 sec. suspensions for going around corners fast at 90 mph. Steering wheels and pedals are not needed along with bolstered seats. Give me a comfortable car that I can get into and tell it to take it to my destination the grocery store or cross country to see this beautifull country instead of the car in front of me. When will they build that car. Q the music I’ll be there.

kurtzite | 8 marts 2018

But driving is the half the fun of the adventure. If I couldn't get in my car and drive, I'd have no way of escaping. I once drove an entire weekend so I could think about my life. Driving is a campfire and it's a thrill if your doing it right. I don't even like automatic transmissions because it steals the control from me. How could I continue to live if there was no gears to switch between? No steering wheel to turn. Life would loose all meaning and excitement for me. Where do you get your kicks if not behind the wheel? Sports, bars, movies and dancing just aren't enough for us all. I'm in control, I'm driving. For some that's the only thing left you are in control of. Everything else is up to the wind. Ill drive till the day I die. If that's in an accident then at least I know it's my fault and that I was living not sitting watching the world pass me. That's what everyone wants it seems, just sit back and watch no control just a living movie.

SO | 8 marts 2018

@kurtzite - you better never fly in an airplane.

kurtzite | 8 marts 2018

Not unless they let me fly it. Ill stay on the ground thank you.

hoffmannjames | 9 marts 2018

@kurtzite

Self-driving cars will still give you the option of driving yourself. You will be able to turn self-driving on or off at will. So you will be in complete control. And, people who enjoy driving will still be able to drive whenever they feel like it. That is another big advantage of self-driving cars is that it will give drivers the flexibility to drive when they want to or let the car drive when they either don't feel like driving or are unable to drive safely. There are many instances where letting the car drive will make sense: tedious stop and go commutes where driving is not fun, a medical emergency where you need to get to the hospital but it would not be safe for you to drive. A self-driving car could also act as a designated driver, getting drunk people home safely when it would not not be safe for them to drive. The fact is that there are times when it would not be safe for a person to drive. Self-driving cars will save lives. You may love to drive and you may not care if you die in a car accident but it is not fair to put that on other people who could die through no fault of their own. If you need to get somewhere but are unable to drive safely, why risk your life and the lives of others, when a self-driving car can keep everyone safe?

To summarize:
1) You are still in complete control and can turn it on or off at will.
2) You can still drive for fun when you feel like it.
3) The car will allow you to get places when you don't feel like driving or when it would not be safe for you to drive.
4) Self-driving cars will eliminate drunk driving and other human related car accidents.
5) Self-driving cars will save lives.
6) Self-driving cars will be better drivers than humans.

There are no real down sides to self-driving except maybe the loss of some jobs but I would say that is worth it to get all the tremendous benefits.

up north | 9 marts 2018

Hoffmannjames thank you I agree. It’s great that kurtsite wants to drive himself and he can do that in every car on the road today. And it would be fun to have a 2 way car. But my choice is the car I explained above and I don’t want to pay for both. My choice is not to far into the future, I don’t know if I’ll be around I’m 70 hope so. By the way I’ve been around the world and watched it pass by, it’s a beautiful place we live on.

hoffmannjames | 9 marts 2018

@up north Well, companies like Waymo are making self-driving cars that will serve as taxis only. Right now, they are only available in 1 or 2 cities but in a few years, they should be more widespread. Someone like you will definitely be able to take advantage of the service. You will be able to get in the Waymo car and tell it where to go and it will drive you there comfortably. You can save a lot of money from not having to own a car anymore and just pay the fee to use the self-driving taxi when you need to go somewhere.

I definitely think that self-driving cars will cater to both groups. Companies like Waymo will make the self-driving taxis for people who want that and companies like Tesla will make self-driving cars that are also fun to drive for people like kurtzite who still want the thrill of driving. it's the best of both worlds. Both types of people will get what they want. Just another reason why self-driving cars are a good thing and definitely nothing to be worried about.

GunnerD | 20 marts 2018

horrmannjames makes some good points but I think that there will be times, more and more as time goes by, when you wont have the option to drive yourself. I often wonder why every manufacturer seems so hell bent to produce electric and autonomous vehicles when there is currently such a small market. One big issue is that we have almost no where to go with expanding our surface infrastructure. There are 3 options when we consider reducing traffic congestion. Go up, Go down or stuff more vehicles into our existing footprint. Going up is coming but not as quickly as self driving. Though not generally visible to the masses, personal, autonomous drones are flying today and will get really big in the not too distant future. Going down is a bit harder though don't tell Elon! Underground infrastructure like Hyperloop is coming but not as soon as he would like. Maybe we can get Jerry Brown to replace the California High Speed Rail project with Hyperloop. Just a thought! The only viable short term solution is to stuff more vehicles into our existing infrastructure. The only way to do that is with autonomous vehicles running 6 inches apart at high speed in protected or semi protected lanes. That cant be done without forced autonomy. As to the viability of the idea, we could gather up all of the existing Autopilot equipped Teslas perform a few software tweaks, close off a carpool lane and do that right now! Finally, I would encourage everyone with a fear of autonomy to spend a couple of hours in a massive traffic jam in a Tesla with autopilot and see what they think of that experience. Personally, I miss the panic stops, snap lane changes, and the frustration and anxiety of all those drivers around me who are jockeying for position in the maelstrom. I do pay attention but I trust the car to do a much better job than I ever could and I relish the serenity of the experience. Imagine being relaxed and calm in a traffic jam. Now if we could only do something about that pesky flashing dash! Facial recognition anyone? We cant let Cadillac have this one!