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Elon, please make the falcon doors optional!

Elon, please make the falcon doors optional!

I want to see Tesla succeed yet I am concerned that forcing a new vision for rear-car access via the falcon doors may turn many buyers off. I love the concept. I see the benefits of the falcon doors. I even like the style of them. But they will not work for many people. Those who want a roof rack, those who have low-ceiling garages, those who are concerned about rain or snow falling into the cabin when opened, etc. There are just too many potential negatives to some demographics. Therefore, if they were optional they would not hinder sales. Yes, I know that engineering an optional traditional door would cost more, however I'm sure the additional sales would more than make up for it. You already have rear doors on the S so I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult to design a traditional door for the X. Even further, allow the option of having just 1 falcon door and 1 traditional door. That would free up some roof space for racks.

Koz | 27. April 2014

Fortunately, Tesla's decision makers appear to be a little more logical and well reasoned but even then mistakes have and will undoubtably continue to be made. If they keep they eyes and ears open fewer will be made and corrections will come faster. I'm not saying offering only falcon wing doors is a mistake but not considering the ramifications of it would be. The $100k and no gun logic is accurate and foolish.

carlk | 27. April 2014

The remifications are already there. There are always Model S, Cayenne and Odessy for you to choose from. If you think about it from the other way how silly it would sound if any potential buyers of those vehicles demand a falcon wing door option?

EVolution | 27. April 2014

Here in Canada, snowstorm of 3-4 feet are common, skis on the roof rack to go skiing is the rules rather than the exception and the road/mountain bikes on the roof racks is on half the cars going to the countryside roads to enjoy the peaceful unpolluted nature.

It has to have a compatible roof rack or hitch rack for bicycles else you'd have a 7 seats car with no sportive utility.

If you don't have a family who practice sports every week-end you cannot understand how important this option is.

Mr. Peabody | 27. April 2014

I think those wanting to use the Model X for recreational use, with roof racks and bikes or skis or especially kayaks on the roof will be very unsatisfied buyers. The X, as described, has 10% less range than the Model S as designed. The roof rack will decrease range another 25%. That leaves a range of around 185 miles for an 85kwH Model X with roof rack.

Measure the distance from the nearest charging point to your recreational area. Multiply by two, and subtract from 185. That's how much driving around you can do when you get there.

Come up with an aerodynamic way to carry your stuff.

EVolution | 27. April 2014

I can charge my car at the countryhouse where I park my vehicle and do my rides. I don't need to divide the range by 2 like you suggest. Range and aerodynamics will surely be a greater problem to someone who drives at 70 mph on the highway with 3 bikes staked in the trunk than someone driving at 55 mph with timetrial or road bikes on the roof.

If a Cayenne offers the option to burn 30% extra gas and release more CO2 I would accept a car with 30% less range and zero emission.

Koz | 27. April 2014

@CarlK

hmmm...K...thought about and your scenario is nonsensical. For it to be similar all existing models must have Falcon doors and the Cayenne under development was proposing a new type of rear doors to swing open with side hinges. Even then, if many potential buyers said they must have the "normal" falcon wing doors to consider the car I would think it appropriate for them to express it and for the manufacturer to consider it. We are discussing a means of transportation, not a work of art. Nobody will think less of Tesla or the Model X if it has standard rear doors. The questions are simple. Are there practical advantages to standard doors? Will the affect on sales by having standard doors optional be worth the cost of design and development?

This is not a one time only consideration that must be addressed now. Tesla has plenty of orders for the X and they are still opening markets and building infrastructure. They can wait and determine later on how much a standard option will build demand, if they even come to a point where they want to build more demand.

Regardless, it would be silly for those not to speak up that are interested in the X but are uncomfortable with the Falcon doors.

Brian H | 27. April 2014

Koz;
The X is not an 'SUV 4 Everybody'. It's a crossover with some unique features and wide appeal.

EV;
Tesla has claimed less outward swing required than minivan sliding doors. We'll see.
With the Falcon Wing design, the doors just have to get out far enough to clear the frame and roof before they lift.

NumberOne | 29. April 2014

I am not sure that Tesla has claimed less outward swing than minivan doors. Certainly that may be true at the height just above a standard car door where the window starts, so in theory, you could be closer than a car next to you than with a Minivan, and still open the door without hitting the car next to you. If you look at most cars, they bulge out at the door but are 6-10 inches narrower where the door starts below the window than the widest point of the car near the center of the doors.

I think what they mean is that if there is sufficient room for a person to pass through albeit just barely, for example 12 inches of space, then the door could open freely. With a minivan, there would not be sufficient room between the opened door and an average person to pass, so it would be necessary to get in front of the door, and then open it. With the falcon-wing door, the door is completely out of the way, and it would be easy to pass.

p.s. Brian H. I am sure that you can see that am not correcting your post, but adding to it. Just saying in case someone else reads it that way.

Red Sage ca us | 02. Mai 2014

~*YAWN*~

Brian H | 03. Mai 2014

Dated 2010. ↑

Mr. Peabody | 03. Mai 2014

@EVolution

"Range and aerodynamics will surely be a greater problem to someone who drives at 70 mph on the highway with 3 bikes staked in the trunk than someone driving at 55 mph with timetrial or road bikes on the roof."

100% agree. The fact that you do that, I would guess, means that you are the exception. Many people heading for recreation are going as fast as possible. For example, trailer tires are rated at 65 MPH max., and it is pretty rare to see a boat being towed that slowly on the highway. People have a limited time on the weekends and think driving fast means more time to enjoy.

I'm glad you take the time to take your time -- wish everybody did.

bodaddy | 30. Mai 2014

It looks like the buyers of the Falcon doors are not willing to make it an option. Why is that? It won't change your Model X with the Falcon doors. The numbers for, vs make it an option, seem to be leaning toward making it an option. Mr. Musk, making it an option will sell more Model X's. We have all the trust in you that you will make it a perfect SUV/Crossover.

NumberOne | 30. Mai 2014

I think Tesla currently has more demand for Model X than what they will be able produce for some time. By the time production is actually ramped up, there will be well over 20,000 reservations. People who do not want the Falcon doors will either change their mind once they actually see it, or they will opt for another crossover by Tesla in a few years.

kealacow | 30. Mai 2014

A few thoughts on the doors... Can one door be opened at a time, or do they both have to open? Every time I have seen a demo, both doors open automatically at the same time. I wouldn't want that. I agree completely with the hope of optional doors. The falcon wings may be great for assisting getting children in and out, however, not all of us have kids. I won't be ordering an X as is since I carry my kayak(s) on roof top carrier. It makes more sense to me for Tesla to build solid, efficient, kick ass EVs that sell themselves on their technology.. not the gimmick factor. Just saying...

georgehawley.fl.us | 30. Mai 2014

I currently have a Honda minivan with convenient sliding doors.
I live in Florida and don't care about snow now but used to live in Truckee, CA where there is an average of 30 feet of snow per winter. I know snow. If I had the Honda in Truckee, snow would blow into the car with the rear doors open. Big deal. I was usually able to choose to avoid driving in major snow storms. Getting a little snow in the car was not a big deal. Snow on the roof does not look like it will impede the falcon wing doors. The top hinges are at the edge of the roof. Anyway, when snow managed to get on the roof of my car, I carefully cleaned it off before driving so that I would not cause chunks of snow to fly into the windshield of the car behind me.
I don't care about roof racks. I have had roof racks in the past and never used them. Lack of roof racks is not a big deal to most people I think. For those who really must have them, buy a different car.
I think the falcon wings are cool. They are also functional. I am old. Many of my prospective passengers are equally old. They have difficulty getting in and out of the third row in my Honda. The Model X will make it easier. When it is raining, they will be able to stand under a wing to open an umbrella without getting unduly wet. In a hurricane they will get wet, falcon wing or not.
If Tesla is dumb enough to offer two body styles, one with and one without falcon wings, I want the ones without to be charged extra. That's OK with me.

georgehawley.fl.us | 30. Mai 2014

OK
I took another look at the prototype. The hinges are not very close to the edge of the roof. Mea culpa. But I still like them.....

NumberOne | 30. Mai 2014

The falcon wing doors are opened together at demos because it looks cool, but they do not actually open together, and they do not both need to be opened either.

Red Sage ca us | 31. Mai 2014

bodaddy stated, "Mr. Musk, making it an option will sell more Model X's."

They will sell every one they can build, ad infinitum.

carlgo | 01. Juni 2014

I won't buy an X unless it has falcon doors in front as well. It could be called the "Dragonfly", a take on the rocket as well.

The more falcon doors it has, the better it will sell.

If you live in frozen water, in a rural area, you really should have a serious big 4x4. Maybe wait for the Tesla truck and its SUV variant.

bent | 02. Juni 2014

I am going to have to insist on falcon wings for the frunk. They may call it banana fly wings for all I care but I must have it!

Red Sage ca us | 02. Juni 2014

Splittin' Sides...

Dusenberg, 'The Mormon Meteor'

De Tomaso Mangusta

Split Hood Hinge Kit

jjs | 02. Juni 2014

I for one must have a Falcon Wing charge port. Absolutely a deal killer for me.

carlgo | 02. Juni 2014

Retractable headlight covers and of course the fuel filler door...

It is also just a matter of time before James Bond is seen in a Tesla with the obligatory ejection seat. There will have to be a flap over the ejection seat....

Oh, better yet the bad guy is holding onto the falcon door and James activates the ejection button and the door flips up at high speed, flinging the evil one out and up into something gruesome like a hovering helicopter/Cuisinart.

babstude | 04. Juni 2014

lol @ those comments ^^

a few posters are concerned that the doors will hit whatever and whereever - if you watch the videos of the MX in the showrooms, (surprised y'all haven't yet since you are obviously Tesla enthusiasts), you will see how the one fella demos the doors and how they can be set to stop at a determined spot.

If you have a lower than normal garage it sounds like you'll be able to program the door(s) to lift only to a certain height - I'm sure ingress/egress won't be much of an issue since it's such a wide opening.

oh FYI I live in Alberta and i have zero concerns about how these doors will operate in snow/ice and other crappy winter conditions - I'm sure team Tesla has thought of everything and will test these doors in any condition(s) imaginable.

georgehawley.fl.us | 04. Juni 2014

Falcon wing doors are definitely both cool and controversial.
Here's a list of future falcon wing door mishaps

1. Model X parked at a vista viewing point overlooking the Grand Canyon. Driver opens both falcon wings. A huge gust of wind causes the car to go airborne, flying like a falcon into the canyon. The downside is that the car will be totaled but before that occurs it will set a new record for time aloft by an EV.

2. Model X parks at in a National Park wilderness area. Driver opens both falcon wing doors. A male falcon flies over and detects a possible rival. He swoops down to the attack and gets creamed on the hatchback, breaking the window. Tesla gets in trouble with the Fish and Wildlife Department as well as the Audubon Society for creating a hazard for an endangered species.

3. Enthusiastc do it yourselfer takes Model X to Home Depot for some lumber. Gets a bright idea. Raises both falcon wing doors to make a trough on the roof to carry the lumber that he purchases. It seems like a good idea until he has to make a hasty stop at a traffic light launching lumber like missiles into the pickup truck in front of him. Pickup truck drives away with lumber.

4. Grandpa approaches rear door with his walker. Son opens falcon wing door with remote. Sensors stop door from smacking into grandpa but he is so startled by the unexpected door movement that he recoils backwards walker and all. Son sues Tesla for dangerous novelty.

5. Frustrated aviator in Model X tries to take off by rapidly opening and closing falcon wing doors to simulate bird in flight. Fails to take off. Complains to Tesla about rapid battery discharge.

6. Have you had enough?

jjs | 05. Juni 2014

georgehawley - Thank you for my morning Tesla laugh!

NumberOne | 05. Juni 2014

I think I will have to create a sound effect to play when a door opens. Kind of like a pressure release sound such as when spacecraft doors are opened in some science fiction movies. It might be quite funny the first few times.

georgehawley.fl.us | 05. Juni 2014

Great idea!

I'm thinking personalized sound effects like the song of a happy falcon or maybe the theme from "Thus Spake Zarathustra".

What is the difference between a model X optimist and a model X pessimist?

The optimist opens both falcon wings in his garage to make sure they don't hit anything. Then he backs out without remembering to close the doors and rips both of them off on his garage door opening.

A pessimist only opens one door to make sure it doesn't hit anything. Then he backs out of the garage with one door open and rips it off.

The optimist goes to the service center and asks for repair under warranty.
The pessimist drives the car for 20 years with duct tape over the opening figuring that would avoid any such future mishap.

EVolution | 09. Juni 2014

@georgehawley

"Lack of roof racks is not a big deal to most people I think. For those who really must have them, buy a different car.
I think the falcon wings are cool. They are also functional. I am old. Many of my prospective passengers are equally old."

You see, that's a statement based on your personnal experience.

I am under 30 and all the people I hang out with are between 25 and 40. They are all avid cyclists and all have roof racks to transport their road bikes.

It if not because you do not do sports and you only board old fellas with osteoarthritis that nobody else in this world needs roof racks.

A model X is not a car to bring you from point A to cemetary meetings. It might be at the base of Mount Lemon in Arizona, or in Boulder in Colorado, or Stowe in Vermont and everyplace you go is to do some mountain bike or road cycling or skiing or skateboarding. Not everyone lives sedentary lifestyles.

vandacca | 09. Juni 2014

@Evolution: Luckily for cyclists we have the option of using a bike rack mounted to a trailer hitch, which I prefer to use anyway. For snowboards/skis, it sounds like Tesla will have a under the seat solution, but in this case I would prefer to use a roof-mounted Thule rack. If you want to kayak, that might be an issue.

However, we should wait and see what Tesla announces for their final production version, as all these issues may be resolved with a unique Tesla solution. Let's reserve the complaints until after we see the final production doors.

--Dan

georgehawley.fl.us | 10. Juni 2014

@EVolution

Many good points but no need to be pejorative.

Point is that Falcon wings are functional for some purposes but definitely void a roof rack option.

primetime98 | 16. Juni 2014

Good morning. As a Model X reservation holder (Sig 911) I just got the e-mail confirming the Falcon Doors are not optional and are confirmed. I've read a lot on these forums about how disappointed they would be and how orders would be canceled. Now that it is confirmed the Falcon doors are coming I am interested to see if that still holds.

I live in a rainy but not snowy part of the world(Miami) but I can't imagine the engineers at Tesla haven't found a work around for snow that will make the Falcon doors not as big of an issue.

Well happy to hear that the X is closer to arriving and curious to hear your thoughts.

All the best,
Tony

NumberOne | 16. Juni 2014

The thread is dead... Sort of!

Snow is not an issue at all, since snow does not accumulate when you are driving, since we are all intelligent enough to try and avoid the roads during the blizzards, and after the blizzard when the roads are covered with snow, all cars should be cleaned including on the roof.

You do not want sheets of snow or ice flying onto the windshield of the person behind you. I really do not see how these doors will present any more difficulty than conventional doors.

oyvind.hestnes | 16. Juni 2014

Hopefully Tesla can make a roofrack that one can use even with falcon doors? Either by deactivating one or both rear doors when the roofrack is in use? Skipping roofrack on this car will result in a fair number of cancellations in Norway, as most norwegians require roofrack.

Tiebreaker | 17. Juni 2014

@EVolution - Thank you for the insults... er… insights.

I am well over 50 and all the people I hang out with are between 45 and 60. Many are all avid cyclists… Also windsurfers, kitesurfers, sailors, soccer players, runners, snowboaders, dirtboardes, swimmers, triathlon-ers, men and women… Many have roof racks to transport their road bikes… or mountain bikes... and other stuff…

We do use our electric scooters to go to from point A to our AARP (or cemetery) meetings, but do drive a variety of vehicles to points other than B. And convertibles and muscle cars and Tesla’s…

And regularly beat the crap out of the pale 25-year old Facebook dwellers who venture out to try “sports”.

Red Sage ca us | 18. Juni 2014

Tiebreaker: +100 UP! I often comment on how Andrew Bynum is a foot taller than me, outweighs me by 100 lbs, is 20 years younger -- but I still play Center better than he does.

davidunola | 07. Januar 2015

They created the falcon wing doors to solve one problem but it has created three problems. #1 What happens to the Snow and water that is on the roof when you open the doors. #2 When I go camping I like to travel with two kayaks on my existing roof racks in that case how will be falcon wing doors open. #3 If the power assist malfunctions or has no power because of an accident how difficult will it be to open up the falcon wing doors especially for a child who may have to get out of the car by themselves during an emergency.

Personally, I wish they would just keep 4 regular doors and have the motorized panoramic roof and roof racks that they offer on the Model S and quit trying to reinvent the wheel. The falcon wing doors are better suited for the model S and not a SUV/crossover vehicle.

davidunola | 07. Januar 2015

They created the falcon wing doors to solve one problem but it has created three problems. #1 What happens to the Snow and water that is on the roof when you open the doors. #2 When I go camping I like to travel with two kayaks on my existing roof racks in that case how will be falcon wing doors open. #3 If the power assist malfunctions or has no power because of an accident how difficult will it be to open up the falcon wing doors especially for a child who may have to get out of the car by themselves during an emergency.

Personally, I wish they would just keep 4 regular doors and have the motorized panoramic roof and roof racks that they offer on the Model S and quit trying to reinvent the wheel. The falcon wing doors are better suited for the model S and not a SUV/crossover vehicle.

NumberOne | 07. Januar 2015

There is no way the falcon wing doors will go away. Also, I do not see why it is a problem for anyone at this point, since the S is now available with AWD. They are not trying to reinvent anything. Just improve existing ideas.

vandacca | 07. Januar 2015

@durquhart, sounds like you should wait for the Model-W ('W' for Wagon). It will be almost identical to the Model-X, but with regular doors and slightly cheaper.

Brian H | 07. Januar 2015

You should live so long.

jjs | 07. Januar 2015

What do you mean. I heard the Model W will be out "soon".

jackylew99 | 08. Januar 2015

Falcon door is the reason i chose to reserve one so really couldn't afford not having it!

DTsea | 09. Januar 2015

never heard of a model W so assuming that is a joke.... just buy a model S if you dont like falcon wing doors.

ian t.wa.us | 09. Januar 2015

I would love a Model W. As long as it's a wagon version of the S, I'm sold! ;-)

cginger | 20. April 2015

I would have put a reservation in many moons ago, but the falcon doors are a deal breaker for me. While I get that there may be some practical advantages, there also appear to be some potential disadvantages in some cases (rain, clearance to adjacent cars vs. sliding door). But my real issue is that they appear slow to open and close and provide an unwanted "spectacle" at school pickup lines, the grocery store, the office, etc.

Why not sliding doors or standard doors as an option?

proven | 20. April 2015

@cginger: I agree there are a few negatives with the falcon wing doors. However, they seem to be the most practical solution for the design of the car, and regular or sliding doors wouldn't work with the size/design of the X.

It's not a huge SUV, it's more of a crossover/small suv. If you've ever been in one there is either no 3rd row or it's rather difficult to get to (especially with child seats in the 2nd row). We owned a crossover and with child seats it was impossible to get to the third row unless you climbed over. It seems Tesla wanted to make the 3rd row the most accessible in the market and doors that open up are the best solution.

Why? Well, realize to give easier access to the third row the door opening needs to be quite large.

That makes regular doors impractical because they would be so big that it would be tough to open them in a parking lot or next to a wall in the garage, etc.

Sliding doors are a bit better since they can accommodate a large door opening, but look at the pictures of the X again and see how little of the car is behind the back doors. Minivans are longer and taller and can handle a big sliding door moving backwards. It really looks like there is hardly any room for a door to slide backwards on the X.

The falcon wing doors have negatives, but with the small size of the X I don't see how you could include a different door as an option.

vandacca | 20. April 2015

+1 @proven

Let me add that rain/snow is an issue with all doors. The falcon doors probably have better protection/shelter from rain/snow than any door out there. Side clearance is definitely better than any door out there, even sliding doors since the door takes up additional space (the width of the door + gap) to slide out of the way. The falcon doors briefly open out, but then open completely up and out of the way. Once open, the falcon doors will have the best clearance compared to any other door on the market.

However, I too thought that they opened/closed rather slowly, but I'm hoping that they can speed that up a little. But I'm sure its something I can get used to.

What I probably won't get used to anytime soon is creating a spectacle when the falcon doors open. The only way that will get resolved is if there are millions of Model-Xs and/or if other manufacturers begin putting them on more cars, so that people get used to seeing them. Mind you, this is only an issue when there are people seated in the 2nd/3rd rows. If its just me or 1 other passenger, those doors will remain closed.

grant10k | 20. April 2015

"Let me add that rain/snow is an issue with all doors." I know, right?

Also, I kind of don't like the idea of a car that supports either falcon door or sliding doors or swinging doors. With the design of the car, there's no chance for swinging doors so that's an issue.

If there were an optional swinging door though then you would have to design the car to support either a hinge on the top, or front so the frame would have to support either. The door could not be too big because if it swung outwards you'd have to worry about that. A bunch of little things that would have to take into account either type of possible door.

On the other hand, if you know the door is going to be a falcon wing, you can go for broke and do things you couldn't do with a swinging door. All without looking like one of those PC laptops with all the little plastic bits on the side where a different model would have had a port or something. It's like the design for a Macbook Air vs an IBM laptop with different features than that similar IBM laptop.

I get the animosity, though. Some people want a Tesla SUV with normal doors, and there aren't any. If it were Ford or something with 20 different models of cars there'd be something for everyone, but because Tesla only makes 2 cars (soon (I hope)) people want IT to be something for everyone.

grant10k | 20. April 2015

Sorry, I mean to say there is no chance for sliding doors. There just isn't enough room behind the rear door. I could see how a swinging door would work, but it'd be a little big.

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