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Petitioning Ontario Hydro for Tesla superchargers.

Petitioning Ontario Hydro for Tesla superchargers.

I sent a request to Regulatory@HydroOne.com to issue permits to Tesla for their superchargers in Ontario. We should all send requests and flood Hydro Ontario with emails. That might speed things up.

EdwardG.NO2CO2 | 26. Juli 2014

Sent a note today!

Tesltoronto | 26. Juli 2014

I sent them a note as well.

BTW, do we have any evidence that the delay is due to permits?
If we do, then we can start petitioning our MPPs and the Premier.

EdwardG.NO2CO2 | 26. Juli 2014

Only Tesla can pinpoint the delay and no one is fussing up!

EdwardG.NO2CO2 | 26. Juli 2014

Fussing = fessin = admitting

sule | 26. Juli 2014

I am not sure (yet) that Ontario Hydro has anything to do with the delay, or that they are in power to influence this at all. For all I know locations may not be known yet and they have to find one that can both handle the power and be of use at the same time...

Al1 | 26. Juli 2014

Ontario Hydro is regulated by Ontario Energy Board, isn't it?

I would start lobbying with MPP and Premier. They should be able to point everybody to the right direction.

SergeyS | 26. Juli 2014

Maybe we should call Tesla Supercharging management team first and get some clarifications ? They might know exact reason of delay.

To say the truth I'm tired opening http://supercharge.info/ twice a day and look there blue dot of hope somewhere around Ontario :)

Tesltoronto | 26. Juli 2014

LOL. I hope the emails that we sent don't get a reply like "there are no applications pending with us". That will look bad on Tesla.

rapoport3a | 27. Juli 2014

Trying to find anything out from either Ont. Hydro or the Ont. gov't is a task I'll leave to others, having gotten nowhere myself. But yes, getting some facts first is a rather good idea before spending time trying to hurry this along, unless you're just asking for information.

rapoport3a | 27. Juli 2014

Nonetheless, once you find an appropriate target, an organized, polite letter-writing campaign may be useful.

stephen.kamichik | 27. Juli 2014

According to Tesla's blog on Canadian superchargers, the utility companies are the bottlenecks. Therefore, my idea to petition Ontario Hydro is a good one.

lunknugget | 27. Juli 2014

Anybody want to provide a letter template?

SergeyS | 27. Juli 2014

Letter template is a good idea !!!

I will try to reach supercharging team tomorrow anyway.

lunknugget | 27. Juli 2014

Or a website petition....

Mystery Lab | 27. Juli 2014

If someone does the upfront work (letter) I'm in. My MPP just happens to be Kathleen Wynne. Would like to confirm, though that Hydro (H1, OPG, etc.) is the delay.

Tesltoronto | 27. Juli 2014

Tesla has not stated that the delay is due to the utility companies.

http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/update-canadian-superchargers#new

"As we navigate through zoning, permitting, and utility company processes, we continue our policy to communicate firm timing and locations once we and our partners are sure a site will be open."

I think we would need to know where the delay is for each of the SCs. I wish Tesla can provide us more information.

I have posted a request to Tesla asking them to provide us with the information in the above thread. May be all of us can do that?

NKYTA | 27. Juli 2014

@Tesltoronto, they are working hard. Why add extra burdens?

We all wish for more info and we all hate "tesla-soon", but the are doing a heck of a job, why derail that with added overhead?

rapoport3a | 28. Juli 2014

When/if you determine from Ont. Hydro that it's the problem, then is the time to act, but not before. please. You should be as certain as possible of the situation and who's (not) doing what. Otherwise you risk setting this back. (There have been suggestions that at times in this subject, Tesla has been a bit slow.)

blackscraper | 28. Juli 2014

Did anyone read today's free newpaper Metro? An article conveyed an idea that independant electricity distributor "could be" hindering the adoption of EVs, reason being "they want to avoid overlapping by cooperation on upgrading the facility." In Ontario, Cooperation between different crown cooperations means.....delaying delaying, delaying and then nothing will ever happen. Engage your MPP

lunknugget | 28. Juli 2014

Nice hypotheticals in that article.

stephen.kamichik | 28. Juli 2014

I asked TM who is responsible for the delays so that we may petition them. I am waiting for TM's answer.

Volleyguy | 28. Juli 2014

Do you guys really believe it is Ontario Hydro that is slowing this down? Electricity demand almost down 10% since 2006 and ALL the coal fired generating capacity mothballed Nuclear plants may be next to be decommissioned, we pay Americans to take excess electricity off our hand, we pay wind and Nuclear not to produce at night often and we are stopping Tesla? Makes no sense to me. We have 11,000 Hydro One employees on the sunshine list (making in excess of $100k a year) and they want to slow demand??? (and lose very high paying jobs)

What is it about SC's that are delayed? Never heard a Nissan, Ford or GM dealer complain or Sun Country who has tons of Level II chargers...

On the other hand Tesla has not had problems installing SC's in the 3 biggest auto markets in the world, China, U.S. and Europe.

We are just not that important in the use of Tesla resources is my theory... Once I started hearing construction was held up for weather reasons I knew something was up...

Just put yourself running Tesla and would you not skim the 3 biggest markets in the world with as many SC's as you could put in?

Volleyguy | 28. Juli 2014

I just wanted Tesla to say to the Canadians.

Notice Tesla is not in other countries like Australia at all or Japan, or Korea. At least we can "buy" a Tesla just not SC it.

tesla should do a press rellease like this to end confusion.
"We will get to your market but we simply have much better options for resources right now but we are coming in blank year".

blackscraper | 28. Juli 2014

I am kinda agree with that volleyguy. Ontarians do have excess electricity generation capacity also the excess transmission capacity. Tesla should, in this case, hand out some convincing reasons to put out my doubts as this supercharger thing has been going too long without much visible progress. Rumors, Rumors, always rumors. Frankly speaking, lack of superchargers is the number one hurdle preventing me from buying a Model S or X. Many, I mean many, of my friends who want a Tesla have been frowning upon the way we Canadians have been treated. No excuses, supercharger should have been set up long long ago. Tesla should at least level with us what is actually going on behind the scene.

Only ONE supercharger in Canada which has the second largest land mass in the world. GTA has a population of 5 Million within a 100KM boundary and we have another several millions in Montreal just 600KM away, not to mention Kingston and Ottawa are within reach. Both cities are also very populous.

clindon | 28. Juli 2014

Guys/Gals,

Even if (and that is a very big IF) the delay in building and opening the McDonald-Cartier Freeway (Hwy 401) corridor SuperChargers is due to permit delays we need to remember that building permits are a municipal government responsibility. Even if the provincial or Federal governments want a new office building in a particular city the actual approval to build such a project comes from the local city/town councils. Hydro One is nothing more than an electrical power distributer – they don’t even produce the power – they just transmit power they purchase from various sources over their power transmission network!! While Hydro One has a lot to do with electrical standards providing technical support on high power consumption projects and are often part of the final electrical inspection team they do not approve or reject building applications. As a matter of fact in larger centres such as Toronto, Ottawa and even Kingston and Cornwall, Hydro One would not even install the electrical infrastructure necessary to support a SuperCharger, that would be one of the roles and responsibilities of the municipal electrical utility such as Toronto Hydro, Ottawa Hydro etc. To be sending messages to Hydro One asking them to approve projects of which they are most probably not even aware is at best unproductive and at worst holds the potential to further delay the Canadian SuperCharger build out.

Tesla has recently posted the “Update: Canadian SuperCharger” thread wherein they have confirmed their intentions and priorities for deploying SuperChargers in Canada. They were however, quite understandably, guarded in giving any definitive timeframes for those deployments let alone indicating that there may have been any permitting issues.

If forum members want to be directly involved in lobbying for SuperCharger permit approvals it would be far more beneficial to contact the SuperCharger team and identify yourself as an interested party who would like to speak in support of SuperCharger approvals at the public hearings which are part of almost all building permit applications. Tesla should be able to advise when and where the permit hearings are scheduled so you can attend and speak in support of Tesla’s building permit application. Alternatively you can contact the local building departments in Kingston, Kitchener/Waterloo and Chatham to find out if Tesla have submitted an application and when the associated public hearings are scheduled. (Markham, has clearly been granted approval and Cornwall appears to also be approved according to Tesla’s post.) Get involved at the municipal level, write to your mayor, councillor(s) and building department chairman. These are the people with whom the permit processes and approval decisions rest and who must be made aware of the public interest/demand and need for these SuperChargers. Provincially, the Minsters of Transportation, Environment and Energy are those whose portfolios are most directly involved with developing sustainable transportation systems such as the SuperCharger network. Write to those ministers and copy your MPP to seek their general support for the development of this critical infrastructure. Remember to point out that Tesla is bearing all the financial liability of this network so their support will be “cost neutral” and will highlight their environmental responsibility by championing this cause within the legislature and in their own ridings when speaking with town councils, chambers of commerce, building committees etc. Speak politely, stay on topic and speak in general terms regarding the value of sustainable transportation for the public at large. Speak to your personal interest as an example of not only the environmental benefits that this will realize but also the economic benefits such as provincial tax revenue from the purchase of a Tesla and associated purchases at dining establishments and shopping centres in the vicinity of a SuperCharger. Please keep in mind that vested interests do not generally solicit public support, there has to be a wider appeal for this to be well received and supported.

Thanks and Cheers

Carl

blackscraper | 28. Juli 2014

@Carl, then at least Tesla should tell us whom to go to. Wild guessing who is responsible is just not the most effienct way. I myself have no problem flooding those held responsible with emails or phone calls.

Intentions and priorities remain intentions and priorities unless something is done. I have yet to see anything tangible in Ontario which, home to 13 million residents, is the most populous province in Canada.

This noon, one of my coworkers talked to me about owning a Tesla. He said he opted for a Volt instead and he thought he had made the right choice. He just made an impromptu trip to Ottawa from Milton yesterday. Her daughter got engaged and held a party yesterday. He was not informed until yesterday morning. Would he be able to make the trip and come back for today's work if he had owned a Model S? I highly doubt so. He is some guy who can toss 100K for a car but just can't bear the lack-of-supercharging status of Tesla.

clindon | 28. Juli 2014

@Blackscraper Not being able to readily identify and therefore lobby town councils and building departments is certainly one of the problems that is associated with Tesla being so reticent to publicly identify proposed SuperCharger locations. (In Tesla’s defence however all you have to do is read some of the threads here amongst “supporters” and see the vitriol that emanates when specific SuperCharger locations are either passed over, changed or delayed from even indicative nominal schedules to understand why they are loathe to “commit” to specific locations and schedules.) That is why I suggested contacting the Tesla SuperCharger team directly seeking the specific application information. They do answer, at least they responded to an extensive e-mail I sent to them regarding a different Canadian SuperCharger corridor. I have to think that if enough owners/prospective purchasers ask about permit status and seek to speak in support of their applications Tesla will develop a communications strategy which will identify application locations and the timing of public hearings. For the moment however, referring to the Canadian SuperCharger Update thread it is clear that Chatham, Kitchener/Waterloo and Kingston remain the Ontario locations that need approval. Writing to the town councils, building departments and even the Chambers of Commerce of those cities should be a good start. And as there are only 3 cities of concern in this immediate discussion of them it should not be overly-onerous. Write any such letters/e-mails in a pre-emptive format as Tesla may not yet have submitted their applications. If the town councils and building departments are politely and rationally lobbied before Tesla even makes an application then the subsequent application has already been identified as being in the public interest and benefit; if the application has already been submitted wide ranging public support (including potential clients from out of town with “imported money”) will help demonstrate the need and benefits of the SuperCharger.

I’m well aware of the need and potential utility of SuperChargers in Ontario as I call Sudbury my hometown and have spent many years in the Ottawa region. I “feel” for your co-workers dilemma as even with the proposed 2014 Southern Ontario network I could not travel between Ottawa and Sudbury. Unfortunately things take time, the EV infrastructure in general, and the SuperCharging network in specific is still in it’s infancy as was the gasoline distribution and station network in the early 20th century. As EV’s gain wider acceptance, as did the horseless carriage 100 years ago, the necessary infrastructure will be built to support them as were gasoline distributorships and gas stations. Even with the most genuine and noble of intentions, companies such as Tesla are nevertheless constrained by economic realities and as such the bigger markets will get more of the early support resources. No one likes to hear “be patient” but it is a reality. We can reduce the duration of our patience by lobbying both Tesla for more information regarding their permit applications and local/provincial authorities to gain their support and rapidly approve Tesla’s building permit applications when they are submitted.

In short, the squeaky wheel gets the grease so we need to be very squeaky – so to speak!

Thanks and Cheers

Carl

Volleyguy | 28. Juli 2014

Carl

Are you saying us Canadians need wrenches like the guy in China? (just kidding)

It is for sure costing Tesla sales. (but I am sure they know this!) We waited a year on the promise of SC`s and then bought a Fusion Energi with a small battery but no need for SC`s.

This is for sure costing Tesla sales or at least delaying sales...

Yesterday I did a 700 km run in the Fusion thinking just how hard that would be without SC`s in electric...

I am not mad (but I do not own an MS) just waiting for the Model III! A $40k nice electric with no SC`s I can live with! A $90k car with no SC`s we just can`t?... (as we still need another car)

I think many Canadians will be at one plug in or gas and one electric car...

The tough part is should Tesla be upfront with Canadians that they are selling MS`s with no SC`s or very long delays in getting SC`s?

I think they should... I would be mad if I had bought an MS even if the car is/was great if it just can not do what we need.

You know what it is almost August and if Tesla can not get the SC`s in soon they have already said they can do them in winter so we will be looking at next year at the earliest and at some point this is getting serious...

My bet is Tesla does not enter many more markets for awhile. A ton of SC`s in Europe and the U.S. is better than a few everywhere.

stephen.kamichik | 28. Juli 2014

I received an email from Tesla stating that they have broken ground at Cornwall with Toronto soon to follow.

stephen.kamichik | 28. Juli 2014

In that email Tesla also requests that we write or email our local utilities and governments and tell them about the importance of superchargers.

Tesltoronto | 28. Juli 2014

stephen: That's a joke. How do we know which local utilities to email to without knowing the exact location of the superchargers? At this time, Tesla has only stated 'approximate' locations.

Volleyguy | 29. Juli 2014

Someone has to tell Sun Country as well who is installing 400v Level III chargers that the local governments, local utilities, local businesses and the MPP's are trying to stop the deployment of these like they are with Tesla's SC's...

https://suncountryhighway.ca/news-media/2014/02/sun-country-highway-depl...

Someone better tell Sun Country that it gets cold in Canada in the winter as well!

blackscraper | 29. Juli 2014

All being said, we need an answer or some sort of clarification from Tesla. I don't believe people are content with being left in the dark.

vgarbutt | 29. Juli 2014

Yeah , squeek up fellow cannuks. Start with your mp's when they come to the door during elections. Also approach media like TV AND RADIO TO RAISE THE ISSUE PROFILE. OOPS.

clindon | 29. Juli 2014

@stephen Could you provide the relevant sections of text where Tesla request that their supporters lobby local utilities and governments about the importance of SuperChargers? If Tesla are in fact specifying “local utilities” that very much supports my point of local utilities being the relevant entities who should be contacted rather than Hydro One in my first post of yesterday. While SuperCharger power requirements are very high relative to the homes with which we are familiar in the scheme of industrial power demands they are not particularly challenging in terms of actual power consumption. Power quality may be something of an issue but that is probably conditioned/resolved in the Tesla transformers and controllers at the SuperCharger sites themselves.

Having reviewed this thread again over the lunch break it seems there are a number of people who would like letter templates. I’ll try to put a couple together, one for MPPs/Premier and local mayors/town councils and a second for local utility companies, and post them here in the next day or so. I promise not to be “tesla-soon” but it will take a day or two to put something together that is coherent and hopefully emotive.

@vgarbutt Equally important this is an election year for most Ontario municipalities. When your councillors and mayoral candidates’ representatives knock your door let them know how important development of the EV infrastructure is to both yourself and your city to advance environmental stewardship and sustainable transportation. Add in comments about economic benefits asociated with a SuperCharger build and the potential for more tourist/business traffic once it is active and they should perk up to our point of view!

Thanks and Cheers

Carl

stephen.kamichik | 29. Juli 2014

clindon.....I was quoting the email I received from the supercharger team of Tesla.

clindon | 29. Juli 2014

@stephen, I realize you were referring to Tesla's SuperCharger Team's e-mail to you. My question was would you post the exact wording they used to request your support by writing to the utility companies.

Thanks and Cheers

Carl

stephen.kamichik | 29. Juli 2014

They made no suggestions on the wording.

stephen.kamichik | 29. Juli 2014

I quoted them as directly as possible.

Jgdixon | 29. Juli 2014

Guys
Go over to teslamotorsclub.com in the Canada, supercharger thread.
The crates are at a Toronto East, Cornwall isn't far behind.
Then Woodstock, Comber and Barrie. All the details are there.
I have been corresponding with the SC team. You will see all the history in that thread.
PM me on that forum if you are interested in our Ontario Owner's Club.