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Trip navigation without the Tech Package

Trip navigation without the Tech Package

Without the Tech Package, the maps feature is oddly limited. I can see where I am on a real-time map (so obviously it has GPS and dynamic mapping) and I can look up an address so it shows me where that is with a flag, but it won't show me a suggested trip route.

A person at the dealer said you have to buy the Tech Package to get that because of some additional hardware that is needed. Hardware is needed to draw a line on a screen? Something sounds odd.

Anyone know the technical reason that the 17" display cannot show the trip route without the Tech Package?

DJung | 15. Mai 2013

The tech package includes other items such as an HD rearview camera, xenon headlights, LED cornering lights, ground lighting under door handles, electrochromatic side mirrors, rear power liftgate, homelink, etc. So by purchasing the tech package, you need additional hardware that is bundled with the navigation system.

viranjit | 15. Mai 2013

I don't think it is a hardware issue, just a software licensing issue with Navigon. I wish there was a way for those of us without the Tech package to buy the software upgrade to get navigation capability added.

Viranjit

Pulse | 15. Mai 2013

+1 on just the Nav update. I am sure its just a matter of time.

datsteve | 15. Mai 2013

You could load up a maps app on a smartphone and have turn-by-turn directions played through the speakers via Bluetooth.

viranjit | 15. Mai 2013

@datsteve, I already do that with Waze, but it is a (criminal) waste to not have navigation on a car with such a large, prominent map display. Yes, I know that today's navigation is only displayed on the instrument cluster panel, but one can hope for some deal with Google Maps to have it be part of the 17" panel in the future.

Besides, it is awkward to keep glancing at the phone display to see how many miles are left to the next turn or the destination, especially if you are trying to reach a supercharging station with very little headroom on rated range ... but that is a story for another thread :-).

Viranjit

buggy | 15. Mai 2013

This is the biggest failure that the GPS interface is not available on the web-browser without the tech package. Tesla is a phenomenal company and build a fantastic product - do you really need to follow the bad example of other car companies to charge excessive amounts for a cheap feature to boost your profit on a car that already cost $89,000?
By all means, I love my Model S and spending this much money for a car was a long stretch since I'm an enthusiast and not rich. But being punished by holding a cell phone in your hand while navigating just because I did not get the tech package and try to save some money. Shameless - since all the parts are there.
I discussed this with Jason from the Customer Experience Team and he pretty much told me that the GPS-webbrowser interface is not a priority and if I'd like to upgrade to the GPS system after I took delivery of the car, it will cost $5,000. Elon, as much as I look up to you as one of the greatest business man in our time, this is giving me stomach cramps...

Pulse | 16. Mai 2013

I am with buggy on this. I felt the same. Same old trick that other car dealers use to upsell. I believe and hope that its just a matter of time before the Nav package is made available for purchase all by itself.

mkidding | 16. Mai 2013

have you tried to just use Google map from the browser?

elguapo | 16. Mai 2013

I have to say I don't really understand the issue here. You knew that without the Tech Package, you wouldn't get navigation and the package isn't that different from what other car companies bundle. If they were to offer a software update for just navigation in the future, then it wouldn't be fair to those of us who paid for the Tech Package. Having said all of that, Tesla's still new and still trying to figure out what belongs in packages (e.g. the new door handle addition to tech package).

PaceyWhitter | 16. Mai 2013

I always find it odd that people are surprised to find out that Tesla is a business and a business's main goal is to make money.

One way to make mone is called price pointing. It is a simple economic philosophy that a company tries to charge for a product exactly what the buyer is willing to pay.

This occurs in airfare where two almost identical seats can have a huge difference in price due to when the seat was bought.

This also occurs in consumer electronics. Frequently, a entry level device has been found to be exactly the same hardware wise (and thus the same cost to build) as its full features brother but it is limited by software. Obviously the entry level devce provides less profit for the company, but the company decideds that recieving less profit is better than none at all.

The point I am trying to make is that Tesla is trying to do what is best for Tesla. They could have increased the car's base price and made the Tech pachage all standard features, but they are worried that this might price some people out of the car.

They also could have allowed all of the options in the Tech package to be available a la carte but they likely feel that people would not be willing to pay much for many of the options in the package and thus this would also cause them to lose money.

viranjit | 16. Mai 2013

@elguapo and @PaceyWhitter, in my case the fault lay with the lack of knowledge of the sales folk at the Menlo Park dealership. They thought and said that the 17" display would show the turns but wouldn't call out the directions verbally. I am not going to beat up on them because there was such confusion about options in 2012, when I finalized the order on the car.

Now, since it seems like the navigation capability is just a software option that can be pushed remotely, it seems reasonable to hope for an upgrade at a reasonable cost ... especially for those of us who were unintentionally misinformed by the Tesla showroom folk.

Some options involve expensive hardware, like the xenon lamps and motors for the power liftgate. The navigation one seems like a fairly simple software licensing cost to Navigon.

Let's try to keep the excessive business school morals out of the rational discussions on this forum.

Viranjit

mrspaghetti | 16. Mai 2013

I don't see the problem either. If you didn't pay for the feature you don't get it, very simple. Do you complain at Baskin Robbins when you don't get sprinkles on your ice cream? I mean, they're just right there in the bucket, and that kid over there has them.

J.T. | 16. Mai 2013

I own a bagel shop and it's amazing how often a customer will complain about an extra charge for lettuce and tomato. "Why don't you just include it in the price?" My answer is, "Why should the people who don't want lettuce and tomato have to pay for it." Others say,"I can't believe you charge for lettuce and tomato!" My answer to that is, "I was looking at my produce bill and I couldn't believe my supplier charge me for lettuce and tomato!

mjritter | 16. Mai 2013

Agree with Viranjit, the Tesla dealer also told me that the only thing the Tech Package gave you for navigation was "turn-by-turn directions." This made sense because at the time there was the battle going on with the iPhone not being able to do voice turn-by-turn and the Android could. I did not (and still don't) care about that feature.

My thoughts on the Tech Package: motorized hatch - just another mechanical thing that will break, HD rear camera - I don't plan to watch a drive-in movie parked backwards, different lights - I don't see them so don't care, car can be a garage door opener - I have a spare garage door opener from my other car, etc. In short, I just did not want the Tech Package as a personal choice.

Except for an additional software license, I did not see any technical reason the trip route could not be shown without the Tech Package. Hopefully they will add it later for free or allow you to pay for the additional software license because it does not make sense for such an advanced car not to show a trip route. I trust that all of you that bought the Tech Package wanted something in there more than just a trip route.

Sudre_ | 16. Mai 2013

When I first got my 60 without the tech package I had mapping on the 17" screen. It did not call out the turns and it did not give turn by turn directions. Just a route on the map with GPS. I was happy. After an update it went away and now I just have a map.
The tech package was on board maps with turn by turn and directions on the dash.

Knowing what I know now and reading the reports of the horrible Nav and lack of real options I am still glad I did not waste my money on the tech package. Since the only thing on the tech package I wanted was mapping. I would have been pissed to get the tech package and have worse navigation options than my 3 year old Android tablet.... which still works great for when I need navigation.

When Tesla finally gets around to updating the nav app I will probably have another update for my Android making it even better. (it has the almost exact same map program which you can buy on the app market for something like $50) Tesla is behind in the APP world... way behind.

TeslaOR | 17. Mai 2013

Without the tech package you don't get navigation. Fine. But what irks me is that Tesla went out off their way to disable location based services on the browser to promote their own nav package. There are many useful non-navigation web applications that make use of location. Like charging.

Not exactly the Tesla culture that I see everywhere else.

That said, the Model S is a great car. Except for the floor mats :)

Mark K | 17. Mai 2013

What's problematic here is that many people committed to the sans-tech configuration after seeing how the delivered cars worked. Without the tech package, you'd get route maps but no turn by turn. Not now.

To pull that back after folks signed contracts is not too cool.

DouglasR | 17. Mai 2013

I don't believe it's correct that the non-Tech cars ever had both GPS location and routes maps on the same touch screen display. I would need to search the threads, but as I recall, you could (and still can) get route maps by using the Google maps site on the touch screen browser, but this map never had the GPS icon showing your location. Similarly, you could get a different Google map by using the Tesla Maps app. This had the GPS location icon, but would not display the route. I don't think anything has changed.

amirm | 17. Mai 2013

There are 2 types of NAV solutions: full blown like TomTom or Navigon where the maps are loaded locally and therefore it works even w/o cellular coverage. These cost real money even on smarphones. This is the solution included with the Tech package and involves fees to the map provider... The other is like the Google Maps app on iphone or android where maps are loaded thru cellular connection and are free on mobile devices. When I bought the car I assumed the Google Maps app will be eventually available on the Tesla. The Tesla guy I asked about it said that Tesla will release the interface for developers to make it available in future. If Tesla decides later to offer NAV only uograde for less than the Tech Package I will consider it but can see why those that had no way to buy NAV only would be unhappy. However, I am totally happy to be able to get the google app and hope it will be enabled (I have a sneaky suspicion that Tesla may stall it to sell more. tech packages)

DouglasR | 17. Mai 2013

@amirm - I think the issue is whether TM will expose the GPS output to the touchscreen browser. At present, the GPS info is available to the Nav App, but not to the browser. If it were available to the browser, the regular Google map site would work just fine.

amirm | 17. Mai 2013

Don't think so. You can't get the turn by turn option on your PC browser. It only works with special mobile app. Someone has to develop the app for Tesla and tesla needs to expose the GPS to such app.

mcx-sea | 17. Mai 2013

It appears that some significant number of owners who chose to NOT order the Tech Package with its navigation feature somehow feel that Tesla now owes them this capability for little or nothing?

In all fairness, if this were to occur, perhaps there would be a significant numbers of owners who DID order the Tech Package who would thus feel entitled to a partial refund?

Fairness works both ways.

amirm | 17. Mai 2013

Max-sea. The question is a bit more subtle. Originally Tesla bundled several features under tech package. You could estimate what was he value of the NAV out of the total ($2k out of $4.5?). As the company expands offerings its totally reasonable for them to offer unbundled features as long as they are reasonably priced ($2.5k for NAV only?). What I would like is to be able to run turn by turn on an app like google's mobile app possibly from a third party and am willing to pay for it.

amirm | 17. Mai 2013

Max-sea. The question is a bit more subtle. Originally Tesla bundled several features under tech package. You could estimate what was he value of the NAV out of the total ($2k out of $4.5?). As the company expands offerings its totally reasonable for them to offer unbundled features as long as they are reasonably priced ($2.5k for NAV only?). What I would like is to be able to run turn by turn on an app like google's mobile app possibly from a third party and am willing to pay for it.

jillalameda | 17. Mai 2013

The issue is that many of us who didn't need/want any of the hardware involved in the tech package but were interested in the navigation decided not to get tech specifically because we were told that although the voice turn-by-turn was only available with tech, maps showing the route were available without it. Those who already had non-tech reported that this functionality worked, and based on that we chose not to get tech.

Tesla created this problem by initially having the functionality, and then taking it away. This occurred in January, and I think it would not be unreasonable for Tesla to give those who configured during that time period the route functionality. This would not be a large expense for Tesla, and I think it would go a long way to helping the handful of us who were affected feel good about Tesla again.

Considering some of the over-the-top things Tesla is doing for some people in terms of service (they must be losing money hand over fist on the $100 Ranger visits), they can do this little thing for us.

DouglasR | 17. Mai 2013

@amirm - I thought I remembered Google Maps offering turn-by-turn directions with location, but I was mistaken. However, you do not need a special app for this if the GPS is exposed to the browser; you just need the appropriate website.

For example, my laptop has a built-in GPS. Google Maps has a button for "My Location" that makes use of data from the GPS (the button is right above the little man over the zoom controls). If I click that button, I get a pulsing blue dot showing my location. It does not automatically update as I move, but if I manually update the turn-by-turn directions as I move, with "My Location" in the Start field, the result is largely the same as what you would see on the Nav app: turn-by-turn directions with a dynamic location icon. This functionality would be relatively trivial for a website to implement, provided the GPS is exposed to the browser for use with the Google Maps API. For another example, see www.trackonthemap.com.

I went out and checked my car, and unfortunately, the Google Maps site on the touch screen does not display the "My Location" button that I see on my laptop's browser. I could see this kind of a change being offered by TM at little or no cost, since there would be no licensing or development expenses involved.

DouglasR | 17. Mai 2013

@Jill S - I think you are mistaken. The Maps app never showed a route. Here is the thread where the first non-tech car's features are described:

http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/anyone-receive-car-without-tech-...

jillalameda | 17. Mai 2013

I guess the problem is that some people DESCRIBED it on this site as having everything except the voice commands, but it sounds like they were incorrect. In which case it's certainly not Tesla's fault.

SonomaDriver | 17. Mai 2013

As mentioned above, the license isn't enabled for those without the tech package so you won't have GPS location etc for the maps or the browser.

Its a matter of willingness to pay for certain features. If you didn't pay for it, you shouldn't be upset that you don't have it. If you had it for two months and then it went away, you are ahead by two months of service.

You can clip your smart phone to one of the vent and have turn by turn if you'd like. It might seem a bit cheesy for a $90k car but you didn't pay for the Tech package so...

viranjit | 17. Mai 2013

@Jill S. Thank you for capturing the nub of the argument we were making in your earlier post. Regarding the next post, I feel that Tesla bears some responsibility for what its sales people say to customers. The only cars those sales people (in the Menlo Park dealership) had seen were tech package equipped and they misunderstood what the non-tech package cars could do. For those of us who configured the car in October, we had to rely on the sales people to make the decision on not putting down $4K for other hardware and capabilities that we didn't feel important. The (silent) navigation was enough for us.

The discussion @DouglasR refers to started on December 21, by which time our early cars were almost ready for pick up. (I received mine on December 23).

Now, the navigation capability seems to rely solely on software, so for those of us who were unintentionally misinformed last year, we are hoping that Tesla will let us have a software upgrade for close to the price of its licensing cost. It seems like an easy solution to an early training hiccup that would satisfy most of us on this discussion forum. (You are reading this, right Tesla :-)?).

There are many other benefits included in the Tech package that appeal to most people who opt for it and the cost of that hardware justifies its price.

Viranjit

machmike | 17. Mai 2013

@ elguapo, @pacey

Telsa isn't just a business, it's also an idea about changing the way businesses work. I would argue your summation of business (outside the basics of capitol) doesn't wholly apply to this company. Tesla built a brand before they actually built a viable car for the masses. We have a car here that gets smarter as the world does. Tesla goes to great lengths to talk about over the air updates, the ability to push improvements etc. This isn't just a car in my opinion, its a smart application with wheels, and a huge leap for how we use and interact with automobiles.

For those who are a bit bummed they missed the navigation. I see a Telsa application store over the next few years. The possibility of duplicated (mirroring) a smart devices screen to the 17" monitor over blue tooth will be a reality and you may have epic navigation at that point. I use BT to mirror my smart devices all over already. Once Telsa hits a steady state I really believe 3rd party, or licensed applications will start to enhance these amazing automobiles further. Maybe instead of the Apple store model of $0.99 the prices will roll from $0.99 through $990.00

Sudre_ | 17. Mai 2013

DouglasR I am going to reply half way thru reading this to correct you. I HAD navigation with the GPS marker on the 17 screen not the browser. I could search for a location with the non browser app and select it then get routed to it with the GPS, WITHOUT the tech package. I did not get turn by turn directions, I did not get on board maps, I did not get the app left of the speedo. That was the setup I had. After an update it went away. I received my car in early Feb.

That's fact and how it was.

I am not complaining to much because my 10" Tablet works better than anything Tesla ever provided as far as maps. I simpley Velcro my tablet in a good spot when needed and people who see the car laugh at the thought of buying an expensive car with a $300 tablet velcro'd on. I really don't care how silly Tesla wants to look with this.

Mark K | 17. Mai 2013

Sudre - I think that's what a lot of folks expected, and were told by sales staff.

Even if TM's wants to stimulate option purchases going forward, it's not so cool to take it away from those who bought before.

It's the rare counter example to the maxim that car gets better after you've bought it.

DouglasR | 17. Mai 2013

Sudre, I'm not saying you're wrong. I have no first hand knowledge. I am just reporting what stevenmaifert and several others described in these forums. I have never seen anything written on the TM site to suggest that routing comes without the Tech package (unlike, for example, the fog lights or the Alcantara headliner on Performance cars). Also, I have learned not to rely on anything I'm told orally by a TM representative.

I hope you get a chance to add a navigation option. I really like it. I will say, however, that even if it's just a matter of licensing, it may not be cheap. The Tech Package comes with seven years of map upgrades. On my Ford, a single yearly map upgrade was priced at several hundred dollars as I recall.

bredell | 18. Mai 2013

Just a small comment on software vs hardware. Most built-in navigation systems in cars does contain additional hardware, more than just the GPS. They usually have a magnetometer, gyroscope and additional sensors to measure the direction and speed of the car with high accuracy. Some of these sensors might already be present in the TMS but probably not all of them. Also, if Tesla uses a navigation module from a third party supplier the sensors might not communicate between that module and the rest of the car, the sensors might be embedded in the navigation module.

The reasons for having all these extra sensors is that frequently the GPS coordinates are not enough when trying to figure our the location of the car on the map. In many places the roads run in parallel close to each other and it can be difficult for a navigation system to know where you are. Some roads also run on top of each other making it impossible. But the worst problem by far is that the maps are often not accurate enough, some of them can actually be more than 100 meters off. The solution to this is to make the navigation system not rely completely on the GPS; it uses the GPS to find out roughly where the car is and then it uses the magnetometer and gyroscope to track the movements and figure out more exactly where the car is on the map. Once it has located the car on the map the system follows the roads and tracks the movement of the car without much help of the GPS. This makes a system that's capable of handling bad maps and roads that run in parallel and on top of each other.

Okay, this wasn't such a small note. But my point is that I'm pretty sure that the navigation system in the tech package contains a lot more than just a software license.

amirm | 18. Mai 2013

Since we have the precise location on the map application which is based on google maps, I am pretty sure all HW needed is there even w/o the tech package. I am therefore pretty sure tesla can present the GPS info to the browser to allow a google mobile map application with turn by turn capability to become available. Don't see why they should not.

Jolanda | 19. Mai 2013

In Europe 3% of the buyers (that added their info to the tracking sheet) chose to not buy the tech package. Let's asume that from the American population 5% of the buyers did not purchase the tech package. From those 500 people 50% will purchase a software upgrade of $1000 when offered.

That gives Tesla a budget of 250k to develop a special software package and service that package for the next 7 years. The costs for external licenses have to come out of this same budget.

Unless Tesla has ultra low software development cost, I don't see how they could do this.

Mark K | 19. Mai 2013

Tesla is not doing anything differently on Nav relative to other automakers. Which is precisely the problem.

In today's world, cheap smartphones have full nav, which includes GPS, magnetometers, and accelerometer hardware, and licensed turn by turn software. Whether Android or iPhone, for $0-199, you get it all.

In this context, far fewer buyers are willing to spend 3 or 4 thousand dollars just for something they already have in their pocket. They also perceive efforts to charge this much as unreaonable.

Automakers do continue to try milk margin from Nav systems, but nowadays there are fewer takers.

There will always be a segment of the market that will pay for extra tech goodies, so Tesla needn't give up this margin opportunity. But they do need to keep moving the utility higher than what is simply commodity stuff these days.

There's nav, and there's nav. Location is not nav. But people will pay for extra software that gives them turn by turn, voice interaction, and cool GUI innovations for how things are presented. Those are legitimate ways to command the money without folks feeling gouged.

Instead, what they've done here by disabling position display, (which was working), is aimed squarely at prodding folks to buy the tech package. But any form of push strategy is always weaker than creating true pull. The pull from truly differentiated features gets people excited and plenty willing to spend money. Whereas push strategies to force behavior often have negative side effects, like feeling manipulated or ripped off.

By the standards of other automakers, there's nothing wrong with Tesla's nav pricing plan. Except that Tesla is blowing past those standards now on so many levels, and doesn't have to stoop to legacy tricks. They can do much better than charge people a stiff premium for commonplace stuff. There's plenty of sexy stuff they can offer in their software if you pay extra. That's how you earn it and make people happy to spend.

Think a few moves ahead. Can Tesla really create a vibrant developer ecosystem for car apps if they shut down location access? And if they let apps get to it, (essential) how can they stop third parties from providing this functionality? This will make their native screen look dumb, and their policy even dumber. The endgame is clear, so why go through the flack from unhappy customers?

I think disabling location is not a positive vector to promote the tech package.

joey | 19. Mai 2013

Not providing basic nav routing cuts the range by 5%. You only need it when you are unsure of how to best get to a new location or charger. Missed turns and getting lost can be devestating in an EV. This just seems so counter to everything Tesla is about. Not having it displayed on the instrument panel or turn by turn voice is one thing, but having a 17 inch screen than cannot display a route is an embarassment. Other than that I love my Model S.

ChasF | 19. Mai 2013

@Mark K - your last post was the first in this thread that I can agree with end to end. Well said!

I've had my car for two weeks now, didn't order the tech package, and am still happy I didn't. The nav and Xeon lights were the only features i thought may be worth the extra, but I reasoned that the functionallity on my iPhone made this overpriced. Now that I have my car, I still believe I was right. With my iPhone blue-toothed to the car, all I have to do is reach down and push the button on my phone, ask Siri to navigate to a location (thru the car's mic), and voila, I have turn-by-turn directions spoken directly thru the car, with perfect integration with the car's sound/entertainment system. I am more than happy with this $0 work-around.

That being said, I don't blame Tesla. If there are folks willing to spend $4K for the tech package as presented, I would continue sell it as is. I don't fell Tesla owes me anything. The market will determine the future of this bundle and what Tesla offers a la carte.

I do agree that removing features after the fact is kind of sketchy from an ethical standpoint, I chalk most of this up to early adopter costs.

Bottom line....I have no complaints - yet.

Sudre_ | 19. Mai 2013

+1 Mark

I would add that I would not pay any upgrade cost for a basic gps position map system. Most all tablets and phones come with that for free. They also draw a path to your destination.

Turn by turn and off line maps are worthy of extra cost..... if they are well done. Tesla's is not from the reports I have read. Hopefully 4.5 fixes that.

amir | 19. Mai 2013

I also agree with Mark K in particular the point about not blocking the ability of 3rd parties to develop applications such as Turn by Turn as available on smartphones at zero cost...

Haeze | 19. Mai 2013

Too many people are getting hung up on thinking non-tech buyers want this feature for free. We would be more than happy to purchase a Nav-Upgrade software pack for our non-tech cars. For many of us, the $3750 price tag of the tech package was just too steep, when the only feature we wanted from it was Navigation. I would be first in line to pay $100 to add the Nav software to my non-tech Model S.

I have already heard rumours of an App Store functionality for the Model S. So, it is very possible that this option will become a reality. That day can't come soon enough for me.

DouglasR | 19. Mai 2013

@Mark K

I'm a little confused by your comment that TM disabled position display. Sudre stated that they disabled ROUTE display (which other non-tech purchasers said they never had in the first place). But if TM disabled the position (location) icon on its Maps app, then I have misunderstood several of the posts here. Is that what you mean?

Seattle | 19. Mai 2013

For people without the tech package, all Tesla has to do is enable the web browser to know the location that the car already has. Then the many many many free web based routing systems can use it.

Google, waze, etc.

I'm sure they blocked it for the obvious reason to convince people to buy the tech package.

Sudre_ | 19. Mai 2013

DouglasR the map position is still shown on the Tesla map. The browser however has no access to this information like every single other tablet or phone ever created. That means when I am in a new spot for a hike or stopping at a restaurant I can not post my location on Facebook with ease. Browser online apps have no way of knowing your position which eliminates a lot of things outside of mapping.

Plugshare, useless
Recargo, useless
the list goes on and on.

DouglasR | 19. Mai 2013

@Sudre_ - Yes, I absolutely agree with you on this. And it would be much cheaper for TM to do than, for example, providing full navigation, because there is no licensing involved.

Pungoteague_Dave | 19. Mai 2013

We have the tech package and unless I don't understand how it works, do not think our Model S has onboard maps, at least on the 17" screen's NAV app. We live in a sketchy wireless phone service area, and often have large blocks of the map go blank because the system cannot download the maps on a real time basis.

There does not appear to be anything onboard to fill in the mapping gaps. I am also surprised by how old the Google maps data can be - we have a property on a four year old road that still does not exist in Google maps, including for nav search or on the graphic map and satellite views. Am I not understanding something?

Red Hot Mama | 19. Mai 2013

I have the tech package and my navigation works fine. But I seem to have a software glitch. Prior locations nor phone numbers dialed are saved in any log like in any other car. OR is there a setting I have not turned on? I thought I checked out all settings....any suggestions? Does TESLA read these and give answers? Or is there a TESLA Question site? Just picked up car yesterday so I am a newbie!

DouglasR | 20. Mai 2013

@P_Dave - The onboard maps are just for the instrument panel display. When traveling out of cell phone range, these continue to be available (you need to be actually navigating a route for this display to appear). I'd be curious to know whether these maps are any different from the Google maps displayed on the touch screen. Perhaps you could see whether that four year old road shows up on the instrument panel display. Of course you would need to search for something close by that can actually be found on the Google map.

@Red Hot - There should be a button on the touch screen when the Nav app is active that says "History." This will give you prior locations. For phone numbers dialed, press the "speak" button on the steering wheel above the right scroll wheel, and you should see a "Recent Calls" option, or something similar. Select that.

Also, if you have a connected phone, you can use voice commands to say "Call John Smith," and if you have an address for John Smith on your phone, you will be given a choice to either call John Smith or navigate to his address. Similarly, if you use voice commands to say "Navigate to Starbucks on Front Street," you will be given a choice to either navigate to Starbucks or call them.

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