400-mile car coming soon

400-mile car coming soon

At the shareholder meeting last night Elon mentioned that it won’t be long before we have a 400-mile Model S (Long Range model I assume).

I guess that could mean that we will see some sort of upgrade in Q3/Q4.

To achieve the 400 miles, there are several possibilities:

A. Just a battery upgrade/redesign
B. Just a rear motor change for the Long Range Model (not Performance)
C. Both battery and motor upgrade

Scenario B would be the easiest way to reach the 400 mile target, if it is possible. It will also give more time before we see a motor upgrade, and interior/exterior upgrade.

tes-s | 12. Juni 2019


Tropopause | 12. Juni 2019

Permanent magnet motors don’t torque sleep very well so I doubt putting one on both axles will increase range. Lighter, more energy dense battery is what Elon was saying so I assume that will be primary. Possibly Maxwell DBE.

bp | 12. Juni 2019

We're likely going to see technology developed for the lower cost Model 3/Y families moved over the S/X - including seating, dashboard, battery packs, V3 supercharging, motor technology improvements, … [Scenario C]

Some of these improvements will be upgrades for S/X - and overall these should be cost reductions and simplification of the more complicated S/X manufacturing.

A lighter, denser battery pack will likely be a higher capacity version of the 3 pack for the S/X family - which is needed to achieve full V3 supercharging.

kerryglittle | 12. Juni 2019

Now that Tesla is building its own batteries and from what we have seen from Elon nothing is impossible. If anybody can re invent some kind of super battery it would be him. Flux capacitor on standby. :-)

PPower | 12. Juni 2019

@Tropopause - the Long Range version only has one rear motor. A permanent magnet motor in front and one in the rear, could that add the 30 miles needed to achieve the 400 miles?

Also the current 370 miles is perhaps a bit conservative (Motor Trend test) so combined with a more efficient rear permanent magnet, could 400 miles be achievable?

This would be in line with Tesla recent push for current owners to chose a Performance model and not the Long Range model. | 12. Juni 2019

Soon in Elon time could be years :) Don't assume it is months away.

To get to 400 mile range, Tesla only needs 8% more from the current 370 mile range. Could be done in efficnency, weight reduction, and/or minor battery pack tweek. A 108 kW pack would do it. Changing the battery formulation would seem to be the easiest way to accomplish this - no physical changes needed. Elon has hinted at a battery change for longevity is planned for about a year from now - so it might be related to that.

ktslab | 12. Juni 2019

"Soon in Elon time could be years :) " lol, so true.

stevenmaifert | 12. Juni 2019

With the current Supercharger spacing in most areas of the country, is there really much need for a 400 mile Model S?

redacted | 12. Juni 2019

"All cars have Dual Motor All-Wheel Drive, adaptive air suspension, premium interior and sound."

chengchy | 13. Juni 2019

@stevenmaifert yes of course, and you will be lucky to get 300 miles out of the 400 during northern winter, with some further adverse conditions like head/cross wind, rain/snow, uneven terrain (like WV), half of 400 is not impossible. People in New England, Ontario, Quebec etc constantly see that. This will cost you precious time. Not everywhere is like Florida and/or California. And remember we have 80mph posted sign on some freeways in the States.

Bring on a bigger batter pack and more range Elon.

Earl and Nagin ... | 13. Juni 2019

With the Model 3 LR, you'll be able to charge 10 minutes per 100 miles up to almost 200 miles (~60% of max range). With a 400 mile car, you'd be able to charge probably faster than 10 minutes per 100 miles, perhaps up to 250 miles with V3 Superchargers. 250 miles in 20 minutes may be doable.

jbdvm1988 | 13. Juni 2019

@chengchy - I agree with you 100%. Driving from Minnesota to Michigan in 15 degree temps and 30 mph headwinds my S90D was burning through energy like crazy. Love any extra range buffer for weather surprises

carlk | 13. Juni 2019

Rumor has it both battery and motors will be new and there will be a three motor configuration. We'll see.

tes-s | 13. Juni 2019

"With the current Supercharger spacing in most areas of the country, is there really much need for a 400 mile Model S?"

Yes. Charging time on trips for my 293 mile 2019 X100D is half of my 240 mile 2013 S85.

A 400-mile range car would be almost identical to ICE on a trip for most people.

More range is more better.

stevenmaifert | 13. Juni 2019

@chengchy - You can get a 370 mile Model S right now. If a 400 mile Model S involves a battery upgrade, how much more are you willing to pay for those extra 30 miles you probably won't need? With the rate of charge tapering as the battery fills, how much precious time will be saved Supercharging a 400 mile battery to 80% versus a 370 mile one? Not much I suspect, and thinking those extra 30 miles will allow you to save time with fewer charging stops is not realistic for most long distance traveling, particularly in those areas you mentioned where the Superchargers are spaced more than 30 miles apart. Whether you have a 400 mile battery, or a 370 mile battery, you will still have to stop and charge.

stevenmaifert | 13. Juni 2019

@tes-s - In your example, the range difference is 53 miles. That might make a difference in some cases. In what month did you get your 2013 S85? If you have a Series A battery, it is limited to a 90kW max rate of charge, which would account for the difference in charging times between the two cars, but isn't really a fair comparison.

chengchy | 13. Juni 2019

@stevenmaifert I did not say 400 miles EPA was enough, did I? In fact, a 150kwh battery pack would be most welcomed by me and many others. Of course, it needs to be priced reasonably.
During road trip, my pace is 15 min rest for every 5 hours driving? A 400 mile EPA would not be enough under some situations during a harsh weather, whereas most northerners experience it 4 months every year. You want EV to be mainstream? Overcome that!

chengchy | 13. Juni 2019

To add, 15min rest every 5 hours driving, although such capability is not needed during 99% of the trips most people are making, most people still won't buy a vehicle w/o this capability.

tes-s | 13. Juni 2019

"In your example, the range difference is 53 miles. That might make a difference in some cases. In what month did you get your 2013 S85?"

B battery limited to 120kW charging. Tapers much earlier than the X100D. Cuts charging time in half in most trips by starting with a higher SOC, charging faster, and charge to a lower ending SOC.

A 400-mile battery would be a game changer for me:
320 mile trip to Maine - 2 supercharger stops/1hr charging in my MS, 1 supercharger stop/.5 hr charging MX, 0 or 1 supercharger stops/.25 hours charging in 400 mile range car. We would make that 15 minute stop anyway.
540 mile round trip to Vermont - 3 supercharger stops/2 hours charging in my MS, 2 stops/1 hour charging MX, 1 stop/.5 hours charging in 400 mile range car possible, or more likely a 15-minute stop each way which we would do anyway.

V3 chargers would cut the stop time almost in half again - from 15 minutes to under 10 minutes. V3 at rest areas on the highway would be best.

Tesla cut the charging time in half from my 2013 85kW car with the current 100kW cars. A 400-mile car will cut it in half again, and travel time would be pretty much the same as in an ICE. Biggest difference is stop locations would have less choice - for now.

Game changer. Range and charging speed are king!

NKYTA | 13. Juni 2019

+2 tes-s, send me the money. ;-)

Tropopause | 14. Juni 2019

Send me a few coins too!

tes-s | 14. Juni 2019

You guys don't know me. Driving to CO in a couple of weeks, and taking the 2013 S even though the 2018 X would be much faster. Trying to keep the miles off the X to get full 4 year warranty, instead of the 2 I got with the S (which has worked out fine).

2013 S is getting replaced in 2023 - at the earliest. Our other two cars are a 2001 and 2006, and my daughter absconded to CA with our 2008 five years ago.

But the progress towards ICE equivalence has come faster than I thought. I can't imagine we will buy anything but BEV going forward.