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2019.28.3.1 f9e95acd Killed my range BIg Drop

2019.28.3.1 f9e95acd Killed my range BIg Drop

Just installed 2019.28.3.1 f9e95acd last night and range @ 100% dropped from 306 to 295 and @ 90% is now down to 264 was 272.

Seems like a huge drop from just FW I have had different version in the past give small changes but wow this one is huge.

So in 19k miles I have lost over 5% of the battery cap seems excessive now.

Bulldawg | 22. August 2019

Count your blessings. My midrange has gone from 264 to 234 (calculated from less than 100% SoC) after 23k miles. I'm still holding out hope that it's just an odd calculation thing and not a real 11-12% battery degradation already.

gballant4570 | 22. August 2019

Look at your avg wh/m. If its anywhere near EPA basis (which is at times a debatable thang) or 230-240, and then your energy graph, you'll see that the estimated mileage based on SOC is the variable. I also saw the same drop in estimated mileage, but my actual range has experienced zero drop - I am now routinely getting more than the estimated mileage with a lifetime wh/m of 238, and trip wh/m this time of year in the 205 range.

Sometimes it's better to display SOC in percentage. Converting to miles from percentage is really a function of trip wh/m, which can vary, depending on a variety of factors...

Kary993 | 22. August 2019

Why does it matter....you can lose for than that in the way you drive the car.......

Kary993 | 22. August 2019

sorry....lose more than

dangerl7e | 22. August 2019

My car has gained range with this update.

St☰v☰ | 22. August 2019

Since April when I bought mine, my 90% overnight charge has always given me 216 miles of (fake) range, without fail. Yesterday evening my 24.4 updated to 28.3, whether it's an aberration or glitch, this morning it only showed 215. The loss of one mile isn't bad, but I'll keep my eye on this on a daily basis just in case it keeps going down.

@dangerl7e: That's incredible.. I wish mine did. I'm also losing 1.5 miles of range with every 1 mile driven.

lbowroom | 22. August 2019

Do any of you think something in your battery chemistry actually changed overnight?

jjgunn | 22. August 2019

I was getting 600+ Wh/mi on my MX 100D w/normal driving on usual roads. Something definitely not right.....

It resolved itself as I ran the battery down into the 20% range

P3D....All is good in the world. ;-)

vmulla | 22. August 2019

If software updates can improve range, they can possibly reduce the range as well.

Keep an eye out for wh/m, that'll give you a better sense of any changes than range number.

lbowroom | 22. August 2019

Yes, but the OP isn't complaining about actual tracked mileage drop, just that the number on the display changed overnight. By the way, as temperature drops overnight, so will the predicted range of your battery. Batteries like to be warm.

dangerl7e | 22. August 2019

i.imgur.com/FBZaX2E[dot]jpg
So I've driven these hot mornings with 230-250 Wh consumption.
But after this update I got 201-209. WHAT???
I know it got maybe 5 degrees cooler outside, but I've drive before with even colder ambient temp and it wasn't nearly as low. The best I've got was like 215-220.
I am very happy with this update.

dangerl7e | 22. August 2019

P.S. The driving style hasn't changed either. I drive 70 with NoA with no traffic at 5:15-5:45am.
I didn't use the A/C this morning. But also there were times without the A/C that gave me 220Wh.

@sky-pilot
I noticed the projected range loss as well! Mine was set up to charge to 200mi. And it was. Now it gets 194-197. And the car is like 2.5mo old. I hope it's not an actual range loss for such a short time. What I think it is - is the range based on your average consumption. It can be looked at the trip meters section.

kevin_rf | 22. August 2019

I was in the 180 Wh miles this morning... Though, it was 495 and I had the AC off, and the windows down as I watched the paint dry on the cars in front of me.

Bighorn | 22. August 2019

People are obsessing about meaningless metrics.

dangerl7e | 22. August 2019

@Bighorn
they obsess about the metrics because they are meaningful to them

KAM6 | 22. August 2019

Switch to % and relax.

Syed.Hosain | 22. August 2019

@gballant4570 "... a lifetime wh/m of 238 ..."

How do you find the *lifetime* wh/m information?

TranzNDance | 22. August 2019

My range since November, when I started using Teslafi, has been the same, with some ups and downs at most of 2 miles. However, what has changed, is an increase in vampire drain.

hokiegir1 | 22. August 2019

@Syed.Hosain - many people rename Trip B to Lifetime and don't reset it.

Syed.Hosain | 22. August 2019

@hokiegir1 "many people rename Trip B to Lifetime and don't reset it."

Ah! Too late for me then! Thanks for the response.

aaron85 | 22. August 2019

did update yesterday, shows no change in battery degradation.
1300miles 0% degradation.

007bond | 22. August 2019

I am on % for those who suggested it have been since the beginning. No one thinks battery chem changed overnight it's just SW.

Just noting car parked and at 90%, did update and TeslaFI reported the changes. So for sure it is the update because I have the data to prove it. Really does not mean much as you drive your actual range goes up and down depending on just about everything.

But after all it is Tesla that provides this miles est and the warranty on the battery that is judged by this same miles est. Isn't that right? If you were to put in a battery capacity warranty claim they are not going to use the % they are going to use the range in miles. So miles est does matter since that is what is used for your battery warranty.

"Model 3 - 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period."

So Tesla will do the math based on the miles est 310 * .70 = 217 so if your range is greater than 217 your have no claim if it is less you do.

If you want to be technical it should be done in kWh. So 75kWh * .70 = 52.5 kWh but since the car has no display of battery capacity in kWh for the SOC we can only go by range in miles.

vmulla | 22. August 2019

@007bond,
Good points.

Also, it's odd that a range increase because of software is cheered, but possible decrease in range should be ignored??

lbowroom | 22. August 2019

007bond - The title of your post reads "Killed my range"

However, it seems you understand that it didn't really do that. Also, if the car now reports less range, that gets you closer to a replacement battery under warranty, not further away.... Although I think they have more sophisticated ways of determining warranty replacement for degradation than the number on the display.

Overall, I'm not understanding what point you're trying to make here. Perhaps you should wait a few charging cycles before you even start to form an opinion?

gballant4570 | 22. August 2019

Apparently I've avoided many problems by avoiding Teslafi.....this isn't the first, and won't be the last

gballant4570 | 22. August 2019

vmulla, to date claims of software induced range loss appear to strictly be misunderstanding or FUD. You perform a disservice when you lend credence to this sort of thing.

vmulla | 22. August 2019

@gballant4570,
Over my ownership I've seen examples of software making things worse than they were on the car.
If software can make mileage go up, it can just as well make it go down. FUD or not, it's true.

Now, I'm one of those people who has a LRRWD. My range neighter went up, nor down with the OTA - including the one that was much publicized/celebrated here in the forum. So, don't hold it against me if I'm disenchanted with these software range claims.

So it's just funny to me that when range goes up it's great, and when someone suggests they're seeing something else it's FUD.

My efficiency numbers seem to hold steady, not increased or decreased. I suggested the OP pay attention to the efficiency numbers, that's a good reference to go by.

jimglas | 22. August 2019

my displayed range has never chnged with any system update.

vincelorto | 22. August 2019

I installed the software update over night too. My 90% went from 216 to 217. It'll range from 216 (99% of the time) to 215 and sometimes 217. One weird day after a 120 mile trip to the Riverside area and a super charge at 90% and then a 120 mile drive home, I got a 230 at 90% on an overnight charge. That never has happened again.

Bighorn | 22. August 2019

@danger
And big pharma appreciates that.

Devilstower | 22. August 2019

90% on my SR+ was 212 from day 1. I’ve never seen any higher. When I cranked it to 100% before my recent road trip, it displayed 232.

After a dozen supercharger stops and 3K miles, 90% is either 209 or 210 depending on the day.

Xerogas | 22. August 2019

@dangerl7e: "@Bighorn
they obsess about the metrics because they are meaningful to them"
------
The metrics being quoted are wildly inaccurate and misleading. @Bighorn is not saying that people shouldn’t care about the health of their battery; he’s saying people are using the wrong measurements and math to infer battery health, therefore they are meaningless and should not be obsessed over.

@Bighorn is the single most-qualified person on these boards to know how to measure battery health. Google and see for yourself.

nwatson | 22. August 2019

My range suddenly dropped 9 miles overnight. It was always 279 at 90&, and then one day it was suddenly 271 @ 90%. When I charge it to 100% now it is 301 instead of the 310 it had been. 3000 miles on the car, just got it in June. This actually changed a couple days before I got the 19.28 update. Has anybody else had this happen?

jjgunn | 22. August 2019

I'm calling this version the "Hangover from July 4th"

I'm having intermittent high Wh/mi with this new version on the MX. Not as bad on the M3 but a little higher. Really weird but easily resolvable with firmware update.

spuzzz123 | 23. August 2019

@xerogas “...health, therefore they are meaningless and should not be obsessed over.”

I don’t worry about small changes in the range estimate. I saw the same drop off that @nwatson reported above and don’t worry about that. Someone here even suggested that after a recent ota this estimator began incorporating each individual cars recent efficiency into that range which could explain why some seeing very different estimates than others.

But to dismiss it completely, as “meaningless” is going a little far. If you woke up seeing a 75 mile estimate on a 90% charge, I doubt you would ignore it. There must be some math behind the estimate and so yes I would certainly investigate drastic changes.

Bighorn | 23. August 2019

@spuzzz
Reductio ad absurdum.
When a metric has zero correlation to one’s ability to drive the car as designed, it should not be living rent free in one’s head. Small variabilities in rated range are indicative of nothing significant and quite often fluctuate in either direction with firmware updates. The battery didn’t magically degrade overnight. You’ll get to work or that next supercharger, no doubt in my mind, based on over 300,000 Tesla miles of experience, plus a few years of obsessing over numbers without someone there to allay my concerns. One can choose to nurse their neuroticisms or learn from those who have gone before and build on the knowledge base in more original and fruitful ways.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 23. August 2019

spuzzz123 commented, "If you woke up seeing a 75 mile estimate on a 90% charge, I doubt you would ignore it."

That's the point. A 200 mile difference in the daily recharged 'estimate' would be a 'big drop'. An 8 mile drop is a calibration error at best. Not a concern either overnight nor while driving uphill while towing.

vmulla | 23. August 2019

Tesla put a range number on the screen, so Tesla must think it's a important enough number for it's customers. Also, it is Tesla that claimed a range increase with software - in effect it was Tesla that bolstered the ideas of range monitoring after a software update.

If Tesla shared what variables factor into that range prediction, then we would not have a lot less of these discussions.

What is huge drop in range to someone is fine to another, so can't blame either. As far as myself, I just know that there's nothing I can do about it ( unless the range drops by 60 miles) so I can't pay too much attention to it. I just go by my efficiency number.

hokiegir1 | 23. August 2019

I'm just going to give some samples here:

01/11/2019 90 % 278.74 309.71 19,710 2018.50 7e49f8a 44.6 F
01/12/2019 92 % 283.06 307.67 19,710 2018.50 7e49f8a 44.36 F
01/12/2019 92 % 285.31 310.12 19,843 2018.50 7e49f8a 38.41 F
02/09/2019 90 % 279.09 310.1 21,088 2018.50.6 4ec03ed 47.12 F
02/14/2019 90 % 278.39 309.32 21,325 2018.50.6 4ec03ed 57.17 F
03/12/2019 90 % 284.05 315.61 23,468 2019.5.15 f5def7e 62.59 F
03/14/2019 100 % 317.52 317.52 23,495 2019.5.15 f5def7e 58.38 F
03/14/2019 100 % 316.67 316.67 23,495 2019.5.15 f5def7e 63.5 F
03/22/2019 90 % 281.06 312.29 23,936 2019.5.15 f5def7e 54.69 F
03/25/2019 90 % 280.63 311.81 24,102 2019.5.15 f5def7e 54.35 F
04/13/2019 90 % 280.63 311.81 25,559 2019.8.5 3aaa23d 66.74 F
05/06/2019 90 % 280.51 311.68 29,719 2019.8.5 3aaa23d 73.7 F
06/28/2019 90 % 274.69 305.21 33,937 2019.20.4.2 66625e9 86.48 F
06/29/2019 90 % 273.88 304.31 33,941 2019.20.4.2 66625e9 84.39 F
06/30/2019 90 % 272.97 303.3 33,941 2019.20.4.2 66625e9 82.4 F
06/30/2019 90 % 272.52 302.8 33,941 2019.20.4.2 66625e9 81.5 F
07/04/2019 90 % 275.56 306.18 34,585 2019.20.4.2 66625e9 82.85 F
07/29/2019 90 % 278.49 309.43 36,395 2019.24.4 73fb1ab 79.96 F
08/15/2019 90 % 279.79 310.88 37,267 2019.28.2 320fba0 84.08 F
08/22/2019 90 % 278.92 309.91 37,361 2019.28.3.1 f9e95acd 89.62 F

Don't stress. It goes down, it goes up, it goes down, it goes back up.

hokiegir1 | 23. August 2019

And the fomatting didn't hold well on that, but it's date, SOC at finish, current miles, estimated "full" miles, odometer, software version (with checksums), and outside temp.

vmulla | 23. August 2019

That's super helpful @hokiegir1

.

lbowroom | 23. August 2019

I noticed my tire pressure fluctuates, does this mean air molecules are passing in and out of my tires? /s

jimglas | 23. August 2019

it means the tire temperature is fluctuating.

lbowroom | 23. August 2019

Ah-ha!

ReD eXiLe ms us | 23. August 2019

hokiegir1: Data! Thanks for the input! Since around February 2015 most formatting options, including PLAIN TEXT and BLOCKQUOTE have been disabled here in order to combat spammers. I use either a period/decimal '.' or an underscore '_' to align charts best as I can now. Here ya go...

DATE _________ SOC ____ CUR _____ FULL _____ ODO _____ VER & CHECK __________ TEMP
01/11/2019 ___ 90 % ___ 278.74 ___ 309.71 ___ 19,710 ___ 2018.50 7e49f8a _______ 44.6° F
01/12/2019 ___ 92 % ___ 283.06 ___ 307.67 ___ 19,710 ___ 2018.50 7e49f8a _______ 44.36° F
01/12/2019 ___ 92 % ___ 285.31 ___ 310.12 ___ 19,843 ___ 2018.50 7e49f8a _______ 38.41° F
02/09/2019 ___ 90 % ___ 279.09 ___ 310.1 ____ 21,088 ___ 2018.50.6 4ec03ed _____ 47.12 F
02/14/2019 ___ 90 % ___ 278.39 ___ 309.32 ___ 21,325 ___ 2018.50.6 4ec03ed _____ 57.17° F
03/12/2019 ___ 90 % ___ 284.05 ___ 315.61 ___ 23,468 ___ 2019.5.15 f5def7e ______ 62.59° F
03/14/2019 __ 100 % ___ 317.52 ___ 317.52 ___ 23,495 ___ 2019.5.15 f5def7e ______ 58.38° F
03/14/2019 __ 100 % ___ 316.67 ___ 316.67 ___ 23,495 ___ 2019.5.15 f5def7e ______ 63.5° F
03/22/2019 ___ 90 % ___ 281.06 ___ 312.29 ___ 23,936 ___ 2019.5.15 f5def7e ______ 54.69° F
03/25/2019 ___ 90 % ___ 280.63 ___ 311.81 ___ 24,102 ___ 2019.5.15 f5def7e ______ 54.35° F
04/13/2019 ___ 90 % ___ 280.63 ___ 311.81 ___ 25,559 ___ 2019.8.5 3aaa23d ______ 66.74° F
05/06/2019 ___ 90 % ___ 280.51 ___ 311.68 ___ 29,719 ___ 2019.8.5 3aaa23d ______ 73.7° F
06/28/2019 ___ 90 % ___ 274.69 ___ 305.21 ___ 33,937 ___ 2019.20.4.2 66625e9 ___ 86.48° F
06/29/2019 ___ 90 % ___ 273.88 ___ 304.31 ___ 33,941 ___ 2019.20.4.2 66625e9 ___ 84.39° F
06/30/2019 ___ 90 % ___ 272.97 ___ 303.3 ____ 33,941 ___ 2019.20.4.2 66625e9 ___ 82.4° F
06/30/2019 ___ 90 % ___ 272.52 ___ 302.8 ____ 33,941 ___ 2019.20.4.2 66625e9 ___ 81.5° F
07/04/2019 ___ 90 % ___ 275.56 ___ 306.18 ___ 34,585 ___ 2019.20.4.2 66625e9 ___ 82.85° F
07/29/2019 ___ 90 % ___ 278.49 ___ 309.43 ___ 36,395 ___ 2019.24.4 73fb1ab _____ 79.96° F
08/15/2019 ___ 90 % ___ 279.79 ___ 310.88 ___ 37,267 ___ 2019.28.2 320fba0 _____ 84.08° F

hokiegir1 | 23. August 2019

@Red - Thanks! In my head I knew the nice alignment wasn't going to stick....but it was early and I hit "save" anyway. ;) Thanks for making it all purdy for me, though!

Obstacle | 23. August 2019

The data above is good to view but if we factor in the 5% range boost in the March update wouldn't that show the car has lost 5% of range assuming for conversation purposes the SOC at 1/11 and 8/15 were both in the 278-279 range? Not commenting on the software update. My car seems to have lost 2.4% to 3.6% in range after 10k miles in just 4 months. That was before the software update and I haven't noticed a change since that update. Someone mentioned this is a calibration issue and I tend to think that is part of it.

lilbean | 23. August 2019

Mine doesn't change.
90% 292
100% 325

vmulla | 23. August 2019

Mine doesn't change as well (not much)

90% 279-282
100% 309-312

jjgunn | 23. August 2019

@hokiegir1 FTW.

That's impressive recording gir1

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