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Tesla Please HELP -- I have been forbidden from using AP on surface streets after v10 update!!!!

Tesla Please HELP -- I have been forbidden from using AP on surface streets after v10 update!!!!

Ref: AP - take off from stop lag & aggressive acceleration in v10

I'd expect that given the multitude of sensors it has, the car should be able to take off within microseconds of the car in front's movement. But, while it has improved w/ V10, the lag between when the car in front starts moving to when your M3 takes off is still ~2.5 sec.

Its especially irritating because in v10, the M3 accelerates pretty hard to recover the car-to-car distance after the delayed take-off. One thing Tesla must realize is that when people are using AP/ auto cruise, comform overwhelmingly trumps performance (acceleration). It needs to be smooth, not jerky. While it may be tolerable for the driver, its especially annoying for the passengers. Its so bad in fact that (under duress from the family), *I have been forbidden from using AP on surface streets*.

Tesla, please fix this ASAP

teslamazing | 18. Oktober 2019

Dude, why aren’t you emailing this or calling Tesla..

Prashanthsharma | 18. Oktober 2019

Correction " One thing Tesla must realize is that when people are using AP/ auto cruise, comfort overwhelmingly trumps performance (acceleration)"

derotam | 18. Oktober 2019

The car accelerates to hard....the car accelerated too slowly...blah blah, People complained about it accelerating too slowly, so Tesla fixed it. Now people complain for it accelerating too quickly...So if you want Tesla to "Fix" it, you better come up with a specific acceleration rate that you think is appropriate.

Another way to look at it...seems like your family has way too much negativity to be allowed in your Tesla, you should just make them walk. :) haha

I agree it is a little hard, but it is a LOT better than before when the car just pissed off everyone behind because it was being a turtle. M8B probably liked it though since evidently he likes turtles.

Prashanthsharma | 18. Oktober 2019

Its actually quite simple. The inter-car distance is set already. they just need to maintain it. The problem is the "lag".

If that is fixed, the rest automatically falls into place. The hard acceleration is just to compensate for it.

lbowroom | 18. Oktober 2019

AP doesn't drive like you, or me. That's tough to get over. Initially, I also felt that 2 count was an eternity to restart. However, if you look around on the highway in bumper to bumper traffic, many people wait a 2 count before starting up after the car in front of them do.

Prashanthsharma | 18. Oktober 2019

@lbowroom You are correct, AP doesnt drive like humans. It needs to be BETTER. Its response times can be orders of magnitude better than humans as sensors and and algorithms can handle this far better than distracted humans.

One of the established reasons for "no cause" traffic jams is the waxing and waning of distances between cars on congested streets. That can be substantially reduced by reduced take-off response times. Thats what should be expected.

teslamazing | 18. Oktober 2019

Oh my.

Joshan | 18. Oktober 2019

If you are looking for the Tesla to drive recklessly, you should sell it now. You will only be in for a lot of disappointment.

Joshan | 18. Oktober 2019

Prashanthsharma | October 18, 2019
One of the established reasons for "no cause" traffic jams is the waxing and waning of distances between cars on congested streets. That can be substantially reduced by reduced take-off response times. Thats what should be expected.

This is only possible when all the cars are automated. It only takes one stupid driver to slam on the brakes and than Tesla gets terrible press and people think it is unsafe. It has to account for bad HUMAN driving.

hokiegir1 | 18. Oktober 2019

@Prashanthsharma - "Its response times can be orders of magnitude better than humans as sensors and and algorithms can handle this far better than distracted humans."

Except, as humans, we aren't just interpreting things in front of us at a light. We are looking at the cross-street lights to see when they turn yellow and then red and using that to prepare for our light to turn green. Or looking at the pedestrian crosswalk signs for countdown timers to know when the light might turn yellow on us, even though it's green now, and proactively adjusting speed accordingly. Or on a highway, we're looking through the windows of the cars in front of us for brakelights to anticipate stopping -- or neighboring lanes. AP isn't there yet to include this info. Not that it can't....it just hasn't been trained that way yet. It'll get there, but it's one step at a time.

Joshan | 18. Oktober 2019

They have clearly stated, it cannot process more info until HW3 is fully rolled out. There is no spare processing power in the older units. So the things @hokie said correctly, have to wait.

leo33 | 18. Oktober 2019

I think @prash's observations are mostly accurate, though harsh in judgement. AP will continue to improve. The current change is a big improvement over previous behavior, and I expect Tesla will continue to make adjustments that make it feel more and more natural.
Also, as @bowman says, there are differing driving styles even among people, so it makes sense to be somewhat accepting of minor quirks in AP's style. I think suggestions for improvement are great, but not everyone will agree with them, of course.

leo33 | 18. Oktober 2019

+1 hokiegir1 (again)

Teslaguy | 18. Oktober 2019

Your not supposed to use AP on city streets.

rhj | 18. Oktober 2019

Maybe the acceleration should be tied to the car in front of you with an electronic chain
You could set it to a low of church van to a high of teenager in daddy’s bmw m3.

Joshan | 18. Oktober 2019

what seems strange to me, is before V10 I would have agreed with him. But now my car takes off from red lights hard and much sooner and even throws me back in the seat.

RES IPSA | 18. Oktober 2019

I have AP and FSD. I have never seen that traffic signal icon on my screen. That needs to be present for AP to stop at lights, right?

FISHEV | 18. Oktober 2019

“ Its so bad in fact that (under duress from the family), *I have been forbidden from using AP on surface streets*.

That’s funny. Know a large family with Tesla and have seen the mob rule in similar context.

if you match the settings speed and distance as close as practical to the conditions, it will help a bit. Car is not quite as ambitious when traffic starts to move and that smooths the process a bit. 2 car lengths and traffic speed city, 4 car lengths and traffic speed on highway works for me. You sure its not the random braking that has the family spooked more than jumpy adaptive cruise?

I think Tesla adaptive cruise works well in city’s and country other than the random braking problems.

calvin940 | 18. Oktober 2019

@FISHEV

I'm still waiting.

lbowroom | 18. Oktober 2019

The number isn’t car lengths

casun | 18. Oktober 2019

tesla only responds to threads with five or more exclamation marks in the title. you were so close.

rehutton777 | 18. Oktober 2019

Casun - - +1000!

kevin_rf | 19. Oktober 2019

Try Chill, people are constantky commenting that AP acceleration is not as harsh.

As noted above, part of the reason for the delay is so it doesn't have to brake suddenly if the car in front suddenly jams the gas then brakes. Here's a nice video of what happens behind you. Spoiler, that car was two, not one car back. AP was engaged in soupy traffic.
https://youtu.be/RYfcp1kQ6qo

beachmiles | 19. Oktober 2019

Chill doesn't help on my M3 LR. The car slams on the accelerater insanely too hard.
Yes at a stop when the car in front moves the Tesla takes a second or 2 to react and start, but trying to make up for that delay by slamming on the accelerator is wrong.
This happens on the freeway when in stop and go traffic, and it sucks. Right after it jams on the throttle it then jams on the brakes. This has always been an issue even in chill mode but the later builds of V10 have gotten worse.

kaffine | 19. Oktober 2019

There is an easy solution just start driving like AP then the family wont notice when you are using it or not.

fazman | 19. Oktober 2019

OP, you do know that you can press the accelerator/skinny pedal and it won't cancel the AP? I also noticed the lag on my P3D+ and just compensated myself by a gentle tip in on the accelerator. The moment i let off the pedal AP takes over as it should.

Same issue when the local posted speed is different than what Yesla map thinks the speed limit should be. My local main road near my home is 55mph but the car thinks its 40mph and the offset allows for only 45mph... so while on the few miles stretch of road on AP, it just press the accelerator to 60 mph because the car warns me that AP is limited to only 45 on that road. It the warns me that AP won't brake because i am accelerating myself. It is what it is. I find it annoying that i have to rest my arm on the steering wheel as well during all of this, but thats because other idiots ruined it for all of us. At this point i might as well just turn AP off and drive myself :D

gorillasooner | 19. Oktober 2019

Lightly push the gas when the other car starts and it will start going. Think about it as autopilot working with you, not independent of you. You have to tell it when to switch lanes too right? Similar situation.

h2ev | 20. Oktober 2019

I like the way AP takes off from a stop in v10. Perfect example of Tesla not being able to please everyone. This may or may not be feasible and will probably complicate Tesla's data collection on AP development, but the simple solution is to allow some sensitivity adjustment on some of these parameters. Even Lexus, who hates giving their owners choices, has 2-3 sensitivity levels (low/standard/high with some other items simply standard/high) on its driver assist systems. No, Lexus' systems will not get better from when the car rolled off the assembly line, but no surprises either from updates changing the behavior of the car. As I said before, constant software updates in a car is a double edged sword.

raffidesigns | 20. Oktober 2019

Tesla will do nothing for you. Autopilot does not function on city/side/urban roads. In three months from now, we will be having a different conversation, but as of now, you car functions as it its intended.

raffidesigns | 20. Oktober 2019

Tesla will do nothing for you. Autopilot does not function on city/side/urban roads. In three months from now, we will be having a different conversation, but as of now, you car functions as it its intended.

Joshan | 20. Oktober 2019

uh... except yes it does and they have been adding features for it...

Joshan | 20. Oktober 2019

but you are right, it is not supported officially and people should not be acting like its a finished product in any way.

raffidesigns | 20. Oktober 2019

@Joshan it can be used, but it can not be compared to Navigate on Autopilot. It does not stop as red lights, stop signs. It does slow down on curves, but can be improved. roads with sudden no lane lines are no bueno.

As far as the "acceleration lag", that is how Autopilot is intended to work. minimize the risk of a rear end accident. You'll survive a few seconds.

Discussions of "acceleration delay" proves that people who buy the performance Teslas and complain about AP waisted their money. If you own a performance Tesla W/FSD you will never have that performance excitement because it will be officially illegal. Autopilot/FSD will obey the law.

kinupeiphone | 20. Oktober 2019

Not made for surface roads right now. The fact that people do it only helps TESLA and the software. But that’s not the intent of the feature as of today.

Panevino | 20. Oktober 2019

Here's a thought, don't use AP on city streets if it's too herky jerky. if you want to be driven, you should have bought a limo. This car is too fun to drive to give into automation, especially when there are still some bugs in AP. I got AP only so I can take advantage of the adaptive cruise control, otherwise, I've never used AP but one day when it becomes totally reliable, I may use it to compensate for times i start to get tired (sleepy) on some of my longer commutes.

vmulla | 21. Oktober 2019

@Prashant's observation is correct.
Tesla overcorrected the acceleration setting setting which was previously vweak.

We've seen settings vary widely with braking and lane changes - each of those features have now settled down to a nice balance. I expect the same thing to happen with acceleration.

If anything the overcorrection in v10 is a sign that Tesla is working on this issue, and it will eventually get it right.

Prashanthsharma | 24. Oktober 2019

@joshan, this is not specific to EAP. Basic adaptive cruise has the same aggressive acceleration problem. Also, this is not NoA, just plain vanilla cruise, which is intended to be used in stop-n-go-traffic

@Panevino. I did buy a limo, Its called the Tesla M3 which claims to have this thing called EAP. I even paid $5000 for it.

@raffidesigns - Startup lag is not a safety feature. 0-lag + slow acceleration is equally if not more safe. Slamming on the accelerator followed by slamming on the brake if the car in front stops is more unsafe

@kevin_rf - While chill does help, its not "chill" enough.

@h2ev - A simple solution would be if in auto-pilot options , Tesla could give 3-4 levels (super-chill?) of acceleration when taking off from zero. That will make most everyone happy.

@lbowroom - The GUI implies that it is. The cars behavior should actually reflect that. While it probably does at speeds, it doesnt do so when taking off from zero.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 24. Oktober 2019

And... another thread I should not have clicked. Joy.

vmulla | 12. November 2019

Any change with 36.2?

vmulla | 13. November 2019

This was addressed in 36.2 (to a great degree)

lbowroom | 13. November 2019

I agree, drives like a different car