Forums

What does FSD feature for $7000 get you really?

What does FSD feature for $7000 get you really?

Clarity of what to expect gives better satisfaction about the product.

Help new customers decide based on your perspective. Please share your thoughts of the FSD upgrade as (1)current advantages, (2) advantages that you expect in one year, (3) longer term advantages.

Thanks

gballant4570 | 01. November 2019

I thought the FSD upgrade was currently $4k.

vmulla | 01. November 2019

Current advantage of upgrading to FSD:
- The car will help you automatically change lanes
- Can assist your drive from on ramp to off ramp, including lane changes
- Can automatically park
- Can perform auto summon in limited circumstances

Within one year I expect (opinion section)
- better Autopilot performance
- autoparking in wider circumstances
- reacting to traffic signals at larger intersections

Beyond 1 year expectations (opinion section)
- Limited FSD that still requires driver monitoring

gballant4570 | 01. November 2019

Since I already upgraded to FSD, and FSD was actually part of my Tesla purchase strategy, I need FSD to enable me to say to a judge "don't worry, your honor, my car will drive me" at the appropriate time. I do not have children, so my "you shouldn't be driving any more" conversation is not likely to be with family members.....

That gives me around 15 years. I may not still own my current Model 3 (but I might) but my FSD purchase will help move things in the direction I a,m looking for.

vmulla | 01. November 2019

@gballant4570
The FSD upgrade for new customers is $7000

New customers get Autopilot included - no purchase required.

The aim of the thread is to help new/potential customers understand what to expect by upgrading to FSD.

Customers who have EAP can upgrade for $4000, but those folks are existing customers who had the car for several months.

lbowroom | 01. November 2019

Same thing it got you yesterday for $1000 less

gballant4570 | 01. November 2019

I got you - I think of "upgrade" as an after purchase description.

WhiteWi | 01. November 2019

Ha

gballant4570 | 01. November 2019

So, in line with my initial strategy, I need FSD to reach full autonomy in ~decade+.

vmulla | 01. November 2019

@gballant4570,
Made changes to the title based on your feedback. Thanks..
---

@lbowroom,
It makes sense for FSD enthusiasts to clearly make a case for choosing the option while projecting practical expectations for the future. Otherwise I expect there will be misunderstood expectations leading dissatisfaction.

gballant4570 | 01. November 2019

One of my reasons for buying FSD is to fund development of the end goal, rather than features today. I have yet to try EAP, but I want FSD to be fully developed.

casun | 01. November 2019

fsd will transport you into the future!

wiscy67 | 01. November 2019

Higher earnings per share.

beaver | 01. November 2019

FSD will bring immense joy or angry regret

Pepperidge | 01. November 2019

You can witness the progress (or failure) of cutting technology of the world. FSD might be more difficult than landing on the moon.

Pg3ibew | 02. November 2019

@pepperidge, I AGREE!!

jamilworm | 02. November 2019

I think of it as a preorder for the future functionality where the car will drive/park itself and pick you up and you can read/sleep/watch tv while the car drives you around. The current benefit is very small, but what I paid for is the better stuff that will come out in the future (no idea of timeline) .

Some people act like this is unprecedented, saying "why would I pay for something that doesn't exist yet?" or "the price increases over time are just a money grab". But this kind of selling strategy happens all the time with crowdfunding campaigns and such. You place a preorder before the product exists with the promise of getting it once it is done. The earlier you buy, the better price you get. As the product gets closer to full release then the price increases toward true market value.

jamilworm | 02. November 2019

@pepperidge, you are probably right it is more difficult than landing on the moon. But we landed on the moon 50 years ago and thankfully technology had improved a lot since then. I hope you don't think the capabilities of mankind are limited to what they were in 1969. The right people can accomplish amazing things.

Fredvanngo | 02. November 2019

Yes, to help support Tesla's future development of Level 5, Full Self Driving...

vmulla | 02. November 2019

Nice of the folks who want to support FSD advancements.

But, what would you tell folks who are on the fence about getting FSD? How would you convince them to choose the $7000 option?

Bighorn | 02. November 2019

@vmulla
I bought FSD on the 3, but I'm not sure I'd add it to a new X, if I decide to buy one. Definitely want to stay in the loop, but not sure I want to spend that much on an already pricey vehicle until it's providing substantially more and something I'd find indispensable. Really nice that they "gifted" rudimentary AP to everyone.

vmulla | 02. November 2019

@Bighorn,
I love it that standard AP is standard on Teslas. It is a serious gut punch for any other manufacturer that claims they have the same kind of capability - any bit of research will help customers see the difference. I welcome other manufacturers catching up to Tesla on standard AP capabilities, but they have a lot to catch up on. Marketing other cars just became that much difficult because of this move.

On the other hand, this move really hobbles the case for spending $7000 on FSD. Tesla's autonomous features do best in 2 scenarios - bumper-to-bumper traffic, and highway driving. Everything else is still evolving. If AP is available and is already giving fantastic relief from the 2 high-stress driving scenarios for free, what is the case for spending $7000?

Overall, I think Tesla just poked everyone else in the eye for not doing enough with autonomous tech, but this was done at a cost to Tesla. In my opinion, this will also soften the expectations for FSD advances in the near term.

A question to back to you (@Bighorn) - Did you mean X or Y? If X, why? (especially since Y is just around the corner)

Bighorn | 02. November 2019

@vmulla
I meant X because all the talk of the Raven with its improvements got me into consumer mode. The size is also good for car camping or pulling a small camper. My wife would like to have an RV which is so antithetical to my evolution with Tesla. One day, maybe the Sprinter conversions or Semi conversions may come to pass, but the X might be a placeholder morese than a Y. It's also available now and we're looking to get rid of our last ICE vehicle, a diesel pick up. A trade in would be a sweet way to dispense with that.

Pg3ibew | 02. November 2019

Let me say this. I, like the rest of you, work very hard for my money. I could not, in good conscious, justify the 5 6 or 7 grand for FSD. I know there are a lot of really nice features. But..... I could not justify that kind of money for an option that may or may not come to fruition. FSD os not at the whim of Tesla and Elon Musk. It is controlled by the federal govt. I do NOT see the Fed Govt passing laws and legislation for FULL FULL FSD, anytime soon.

Like @pepperidge said, FSD is the modern day equivalent to landing a man on the Moon. The roads and infrastructure, the way ot is laid out today, could NEVER sustain FSD.

Just my 2 cents

andy | 02. November 2019

Now that most of my driving is in the dark I’m seriously impressed with autopilot. I’ve been building up its use on the places I regularly drive on my commute route on the single carriageway roads to check it will safely track and handle the corners in the dark and it’s a great safety aid when used properly - similarly with poor weather on the motorway. After around 6.5k miles over the last couple of months I’m learning g what the car will and won’t do and how it reacts to different weather and light conditions.

We’re restricted in the FSD features that are available here and there are other problems with speed control and lane keeping that don’t map to our roads, but I would very much like the auto lane change feature in isolation to the other parts and could justify paying a couple of £k for it.

Most days I spend about 3 hours in my Model 3 - often 6 or more. The more driver aids the better, although there is still a lot of room for simple improvements that would be a great help. No other car, other than perhaps and S or X would work for me.

andy | 02. November 2019

@Pg3ibrew - I very much agree with your last paragraph - especially here in the UK. Road layouts have become increasingly complicated to try and cram more cars into limited space and then control people and their mistakes. The layouts lead to accidents in my opinion. They are very challenging for humans and even more challenging for any level of automation as humans are required to make judgement calls on what they are supposed to do next after the systems fail. The layouts need to be simplified for FSD and the roads need to communicate with the cars.

Pg3ibew | 02. November 2019

Let me also add this, my AP was unavailable for about an hour yesterday because of changing weather patterns. From warm and hunid to cold and dry, it Messed up cameras. If little things like that are an issue, what happens when a construction crew rips up a highway and doesnt put lines down. Or 1000 other potential things that can happen.

Do mot get me wrong. I LOVE that Tesla is leading the pack in FSD. And I would love to have FSD nationwide. I just do not see it in the near term. Maybe 8 to 10 away, at best.

Bighorn | 02. November 2019

@Pg3
Remember that a lot of us bought FSD piecemeal. It wasn't a 7k or 8k dollar hit. We mostly bought EAP vs nothing at all for $5k. The FSD was a $2-3k decision for most. It temporarily went from $2k to $6k and that put the potential price increases into perspective and also made people feel like they'd missed out on the $2k sale. So when it came down from $6k to $3k, a lot of people bit.

Pg3ibew | 02. November 2019

@Bighorn, I fully understand the piece meal part of it. For me, I can not justify it. If I had to pay for AP, I am not sure I would have done it. I have a number in my head that I feel is WORTH it. And with my OPINION of 8-10 years, ZERO is my number.
I am also of the belief, that, Like A/C, automatic windows and power locks, FSD will, at some point, not be an option, but standard on all cars.

andy | 02. November 2019

@Ph3ibew welcome to the UK world of not just constant roadworks, but roads that change their speed limits in real time and vary which lanes are open and closed. All enforced by cameras. Get 4 low speeding tickets or mistakes and lose your licence. Get one ticket 30mph above the lint and loss hit licence and the mandatory speed limit can be varied in real time by computers, enforced by cameras, between 40 and 70.

Pg3ibew | 02. November 2019

@andy, WOAH!!!!! Those are some EXTREME restrictions!!

WantMY | 02. November 2019

Apparently, there is quite a few Tesla owners who absolutely hates driving their cars. Just can not make it up, lol

Pg3ibew | 02. November 2019

@Wantmy, I LOVE my car. Noooooo, I ABSOLUTELY LOVE my car.

WhiteWi | 02. November 2019

Right on about spending 6 or 7gs on the promise that might or not come to fruition. I would have no prob to pay 10gs once it's fully functional. At this moment in time the functionality doesn't justify the price at least for me.

andy | 02. November 2019

@Ph3ibew - that is our normal. It’s what I have to deal with every day.

I should post some photos of invisible mini roundabouts as well. You need local knowledge or a keen eye for a small sign to know, on approach, that they are there.

Lonestar10_1999 | 02. November 2019

The $10k would be more palatable if it were perhaps a minimum 10 year software license that could be applied initially to the customer’s M3 but if the customer’s M3 got totaled, the license could be transferred to another Tesla vehicle in the customer’s account.

jamilworm | 02. November 2019

I'd probably pay $15k for it if fsd were real today, so when I got ap+fsd for 5k during the fire sale I think it has a decent chance of paying off.

jim0266 | 14. November 2019

I purchased 70 shares of TSLA @205 average a few months back. Letting Tesla pay for my FSD. Might not have done it otherwise. I'm in the full ride.

texxx | 14. November 2019

For me? I started with EAP on my M3 delivered last November, so when the offer for a $2K upgrade to FSD came along I jumped all over it - but for one reason only. The "free" hardware upgrade. I was really concerned that features and functionality would one day fork, with older hardware hitting a dead end. Looks like that's going to happen, so spending the additional $2K likely was a good decision.

Today, would I spend 7K on FSD? Probably not, given the car would already have the latest hardware and non-FSD feature upgrades - should they become available - wouldn't be hardware limited. But who knows, in three years maybe HW4 will come along, and those that bought FSD today will be thankful they did.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 14. November 2019

vmulla inquired, "What does FSD feature for $7000 get you really?"

The potential to NOT have to hire a chauffeur some day.

thedrisin | 14. November 2019

@Pg3ibew. "FSD is not at the whim of Tesla and Elon Musk. It is controlled by the federal govt."

Driving regulations are controlled by the state not federal govt. Autonomous driving regulations will probably exist before the manufacturers will be able to meet them. It is a huge leap from beta features to level 4/5 FSD that does not have warnings for the driver to be ready to take control and the manufacturers are ready to take the liability for their systems. I agree "maybe 8-10 (yrs.) away, at best."

vmulla | 14. November 2019

"The potential to NOT have to hire a chauffeur some day." @ReD

That's the answer to Question #3 in the OP. But as always, the topic has drifted a bit :))
----

Let's see if anyone answers all the questions ;)

Atoms | 14. November 2019

FSD buys listed capabilities and hardware and software upgrades to achieve listed future capabilities. Listed future capabilities may not include what you imagine. Only what is specifically written. We can only hope it is what we imagine it to be.

It is my opinion that true self driving even on HW3 will require significant software architecture changes from the current design. I’m not convinced that current CNN architecture is powerful enough to provide all that is necessary for true FSD. It is however possible that the hardware will be able to support True FSD, but there will be both a lot of engineering work to figure out how to simplify and utilize dynamic data (flow fields) and conditional processing based upon attention and urgency fields. Our brains limit a lot of processing based upon attention and urgency or focus.

samathw | 14. November 2019

You can earn much more than $7k when Tesla Robo Taxi fleet is introduced. (I saw some estimates showing > $100k)

ssgstorm | 15. November 2019

we are atleast 10-15 years from robo taxi, most won't have the car when that happens.. I purchased it for 6k so i could avoid the increase...we are just basically paying in advance for Tesla R&D, which I'm ok with, but you have to accept thats all it really is at this point

ReD eXiLe ms us | 15. November 2019

ssgstorm: OK. I have copied your post, bookmarked this thread, and will be sure to return to laugh at your prediction when it is proven woefully incorrect. ;-)

vmulla | 15. November 2019

@ReD,
What would your answers be for the original question? - Please share your thoughts of the FSD upgrade as (1)current advantages, (2) advantages that you expect in one year, (3) longer term advantages.

RedPillSucks | 15. November 2019

What about the features that you get (short of full FSD) with the FSD purchase? Like smart summons, etc. I imagine that Tesla will roll out a bunch of stuff that's only accessible to people who've paid for FSD.

vmulla | 15. November 2019

@RedPillSucks,
Exactly! There's going to be distinctions between FSD and AP/EAP, and I expect these distinctions to be coming fast. What do you think those features are?

andy.connor.e | 15. November 2019

FSD will not give you instant gratification as most purchases today do. But it gives you access to 100% of the future improvements. Eventually ride sharing, which is the most significant really. No idea when that will be released, but its a potential source of income.

vmulla | 15. November 2019

@andy,
What about 1yr from now? What do you think is realistic expectation?

Pages