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GM battery better than Tesla, so they say ....

GM battery better than Tesla, so they say ....

andy.connor.e | 04. März 2020

You can say whatever you want when there are no consequences for your words, and zero accountability for being literally absolutely 100% wrong.

rob | 04. März 2020

Tesla's new car battery tops GM's new car battery.
apples to apples.

jordanrichard | 04. März 2020

All of what GM said is essentially the same exact thing they said 2-3 years ago. This whole production was to try and lure institutional investors that are more and more going to Tesla.

jimglas | 04. März 2020

I didnt say I believed them, in fact I don't
just thought it was inteestng that GM released this claim
(and who is to say they dont explode?)

jordanrichard | 04. März 2020

Jimglas, wasn’t implying that you did believe them. What I want to know is will the Cadillac EV have a turbo!!!!!! :-)

jimglas | 04. März 2020

the BEST turbo!

Xerogas | 04. März 2020

Maybe they’re self-charging batteries, like Toyota’s

blkice | 04. März 2020

Fake corporate news

DonS | 04. März 2020

GM stated a goal for a product that is still being developed. CNN warped that statement into click-bait.

David N | 04. März 2020

I wish GM well, but we’ve all heard some of these promises many years ago(GM being serious in EV’s). The article says many are still clay models. Seriously? You are GM, this huge 100yr old auto maker and now after several years ago stating that you are serious about EV’s , you still haven’t gotten past clay models yet?
I read the article carefully, and GM was careful in their wording, “up to 400 miles of range”

“The new battery cells will hold enough energy to “potentially” power a car for 400 miles or more on a single charge, the company announced Wednesday. That's slightly more driving range than any car Tesla offers.”

Well, Tesla is currently at 390, and that’s a really battery, in a real car, that people are really driving.
GM’s battery isn’t made yet. My gut feeling is that it is easy for GM to make claims that are not even made yet. By the time GM gets around to making the batteries, Tesla may well be over 400 miles with a well known track record.
As mentioned earlier, CNN created it into click bait.

SamO | 04. März 2020

The summaries I’ve seen are long on hype and thin on details.

No prices.

No options.

No pictures.

No vehicles.

But lots of pleading thst this time it really really really truly isn’t vaporware like all the other times.

Seriously.

Geico | 05. März 2020

Not a fan of any of the vehicles they announced style wise. Pretty much to sum it up, GM is pushing the bolt through the middle of next year with slightly better range. Middle end of next year we will see a new EV from them. Battery tech is yet to be proven because no test vehicles exist and Bolt doesn't use that tech.

They are behind the worst in the EV field. Hopefully they can punch forward with some really great pricing on a 300+ mile EV. I have my doubts. The bolt is the ugliest EV I've ever seen.

Geico | 05. März 2020

Mustang Mach E is looking more attractive each day.

WW_spb | 05. März 2020

No it doesn't

bp | 05. März 2020

Another Tesla competitor announcing plans for future vehicles - with the press comparing what GM may provide several years from now with what Tesla is offering today.

Tesla has already announced plans to have larger battery packs for Roadster 2.0, Cybertruck and Semi - which could all be out before GM gets their first Ultium battery pack vehicle to market.

Like any new technology, eventually the technology will mature and the competitors will catch up to Tesla. Though when GM brings their promised batteries and vehicles to market, they'll likely still be behind Tesla.

Tesla must use their remaining time with a significant technology advantage to secure their market share - items like customer support, service quality, smartphone integration, interior design, ... will become more important as other manufacturers start to catch up to Tesla's technology.

FISHEV | 05. März 2020

"Powered by Ultium-branded low-cobalt batteries produced with its partner, LG Chem, ranging in size from 50 kWh to 200 kWh, the automaker will produce a number of electric vehicles over the next few years for all of its brands – GMC, Cadillac, Buick, and Chevrolet."

That it is LG as the partner makes it bit more than just GM making announcements. The most interesting part is how exclusive it is to GM vs. LG's other partners such as Ford, Hyundai, VW/Audi and how can LG deploy the tech to it's entire line'

LG is building out fast and furious.

"It is investing 3.3 trillion won ($2.8 billion) to build and expand production facilities near Tesla’s plant in Shanghai. It has a joint venture (JV) in China with Geely Automobile Holdings (0175.HK), which makes Volvos, and is in talks with other carmakers about JVs in major markets. The firm is considering building a second U.S. factory in addition to its facility in Michigan and is expanding its plant in Poland. "

andy.connor.e | 05. März 2020

Essentially a buzzword, business lingo fluff presentation with zero substance. No timelines, no targets other than "2025", dont know what vehicles will be available in 5 years, no specs, and an up to 400miles of range. Is that with the 200kWh battery? No one knows. Pretty uneventful event if you ask me.

akgolf | 05. März 2020

Already bought my last GM product in 1982 based on a glowing review on a real car. Never again GM.

Ford plans on their EVs lasting around four years. No thanks.

grins.va | 05. März 2020

Still vaporware for GM and LG. Tesla announced a 500 mile battery in the Cybertruck. GM should focus on that number, not 400 miles. Still playing catch up.

andy.connor.e | 05. März 2020

they're too busy making generation 2 of their failed Bolt.

TabascoGuy | 05. März 2020

@WhiteWind +100

It doesn't even look like a mustang.

johncrab | 05. März 2020

When GM claimed they Can stuff a 200kwh battery into a Bolt, I laughed. Will the car come with a trailer and extension cord? Given SOTA battery tech and cost, this would mean the Bolt would cost six figures. GM really needs to work on its BS before presenting it.

Earl and Nagin ... | 05. März 2020

The Bolt is a great car. I applaud GM for getting it past the old guard and into the hands of happy customers. It sounds like they are at least talking toward its shortcomings (mostly charging speed and body style) so that they can have a fleet of truly viable EVs to meet all needs.
Admitting one's problems is the first step in fixing them.
While this is clearly just vaporware at this point, I wish GM the best of luck. They have a long row to hoe ahead of them.
Go Tesla! Go GM!

andy.connor.e | 05. März 2020

The bolt's shortcomings. Like the lack of desire to sell it? Zero advertising and dealerships dont even want to sell it to you? It was all hype, the media blew up about how the Bolt would beat the Model 3 to market. Last year Model 3 outsold the Bolt by a factor of 10.

Earl and Nagin ... | 05. März 2020

@andy,
Lack of desire to sell or sales volume are not shortcomings of the Bolt as a vehicle. They are only symptoms of the influence that self-serving, myopic idiots have over the company. The car is a good set of wheels. Everyone I know that has them loves them and many of those are smarter than me and most on this forum.

Uncle Paul | 05. März 2020

Battery manufacturers have already been found guilty of overpromising what they are going to be able to deliver.
Several auto companies have been caught flat footed, and needed to stop EV production because their "battery partners" have failed to deliver the quanity they contracted for.

They have over subscribed their production by signing up many auto companies, and promising them more capacity than they can ever hope to produce, but they still got their investments covered by overpromising.

andy.connor.e | 05. März 2020

Ur right, its more of a company shortcoming. Unfortunate really.

SamO | 05. März 2020

Bolts big problem was and is the lack of a charging network and high price

andy.connor.e | 05. März 2020

The bolt is arguably better than the leaf. They just did not market it.

TabascoGuy | 05. März 2020

SamO, don't most people charge at home though? Like a little over 80%. Most them would only need a charging network for longer trips. Although I'm pretty sure I could get a Bolt from Anchorage to Tierra del Fuego with little more than a 100' extension cord, a little luck, and, some tips from BH.

I agree the price may be a bit high but I thing the real problem is GM not really wanting to sell them.

TabascoGuy | 05. März 2020

thing = think

andy.connor.e | 05. März 2020

Maybe its because the Bolt doesnt make a profit.

https://www.hotcars.com/gm-admits-bolt-not-profitable/

jimglas | 05. März 2020

Any follow up on the Taycan that burned up in a garage?

Earl and Nagin ... | 05. März 2020

@TobascoGuy,
Yes, that 100' extension cord could get you there but you could walk about as fast.
My early EV-1, Roadster, and Leaf roadtrips proved that long-distance trips can be done with an EV but they also proved that it SHOULD NOT be done.
Superchargers make the difference. 50 kW charging is really the bare minimum charging speed that make it almost reasonable but it certainly falls very short of being competitive with ICE. 80 - 150 kW or faster is really necessary IMHO and my experience.
At least GM has finally acknowledged a path to fast charging even if it is still vaporware.

TabascoGuy | 05. März 2020

@Earl and Nagin
Yup, it would be an adventure. A very long challenging adventure not for the feint of heart. It would also be fun. I have been accused of taking the road less traveled many times.

I'm not dissing charging infrastructure. The more options and stations for charging the better for all. I just was questioning how much that actually contributed to Bolt sales, or lack thereof.

Tesla-David | 05. März 2020

GM's presentation and promises are a joke. Gali Russell (Hyperchange) was not impressed with no real evidence but only promises of vehicles by 2025. This presentation (Part 2 - Tech Deep Dive : TESLA BATTERY INVESTOR DAY: What Elon Musk will Reveal) of what likely will be coming next month at Tesla's Battery Investment Day makes me think we will be seeing very big changes in battery configurations, which will make GM's battery promises laughable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqAMoK7LjIU (Hyperchange)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt1XO5_xHss (Battery presentation)

Ross1 | 05. März 2020

What this looks like in perspective is GM is shoring up confidence before our Battery Day, so they dont look stupid and preserve their stock. Mary Barra announced it. They are showing desperation.

jordanrichard | 05. März 2020

While the Bolt maybe great for those that bought it, but only 16,000 people bought Bolts last year. Nothing Mary Barra or her henchmen said addressed the underlying problem, a proper DC fast charging.

Now before people start spouting off about EA, remember that no one outside of the EV world knows about EA and GM isn’t talking about it. Also, before people start quoting the line, “most people charge at home”, remember this. This isn’t about reality, it is about perception. Before people will buy an EV, they need to know that there is a way charge it when away from home because right or wrong, it’s in their heads that they need a fast way to charge when away from home.

It is too easy to become “instuitionalized” when you live and breath EVs for years on end. You forget what non EV people think or how they perceive things.

finman100 | 05. März 2020

If only people were rational.

jordanrichard nails it with the word perception.

too many people see the short range and no way to charge for long distance and punt the EV idea. When, as a main commuter car, short range and charge at home would work a large (VERY large) percentage of gas vehicles TODAY. yesterday too.

People want to know that their gas-mobile replacement EV does it better or at least the is the same as the status quo, DESPITE the actual requirements.

Said more simply: no compromises when getting an EV.

People are completely dumbfounded that I can take a 1,000 mile plus trip with no problems. plus when the cost of such trips is part of the equation (meaning how inexpensive it is), THEN i get people's attention.

Myths about EVs are very difficult to clear up. Some don't want (the misinformation) to vary from their perceptions.

the un-truth validates some.

we r a very strange species, indeed.

FISHEV | 05. März 2020

"Bolts big problem was and is the lack of a charging network and high price"

As someone who looked at and drove Bolt before buying the Tesla, it's a great car. Reasons I didn't buy it were no power seats and no adaptive cruise.

If Chevy adds that in the refresh, the Bolt is very competitive.

jimglas | 05. März 2020

nice stuff tesla-david
thanks for posting the links

bp | 06. März 2020

Tesla doesn't pay for advertising.

Every time another manufacturer publicizes their "Tesla killer", they are helping to encourage their customers to consider purchasing an EV as their next vehicle.

And when they do look at EVs, they will find Tesla is years ahead of the other manufacturers in EV technology and long distance charging.

As long as Tesla continues to innovate and can maintain their edge in technology and long distance charging, marketing announcements by the other manufacturers may actually be generating more Tesla sales...

FISHEV | 06. März 2020

"And when they do look at EVs, they will find Tesla is years ahead of the other manufacturers in EV technology and long distance charging."

Past tense now that EA system is almost built out. I should have the US101 EA chargers on OR and WA coasts by the time my Mach-E is delivered the end of this year. So you could say Tesla is 8 months ahead of the competition in EV's and long distance charging.

andy.connor.e | 06. März 2020

Tesla is ahead by the rate of new charger installation difference between EA and Tesla.

What is the rate of new charger installation of EA?

akgolf | 06. März 2020

Sure why not buy another brand of EV and take advantage of EAs more expensive charging network. Why would I want to buy a Tesla and pay a fraction of the cost on long distance journeys? Plus most of EAs charging locations have four charging stations, so I can spend more time in line with other customers, it’ll be a chance to bond with new friends.

johncrab | 06. März 2020

Based on my early experience with GM cars and all of the corner cutting they do, a GM battery pack is a scary thing to me. After finding a plastic camshaft sprocket in a 472 engine, designed to wear slowly and make the ignition “miss”, I have never trusted anything that company says or does. I have a few issues with Tesla but nothing like the issues I have with Good-Nuf Motors.

Tesla-David | 06. März 2020

Wow, just listened to Zac and Jessie's (Now You Know) take on the GM presentation, and to put it mildly they were not impressed. Zac thinks that this may mark the timeline when GM sinks to irrelevance and they either go out of business or are brought out by another company in ~8 years or so. They simply don't get it about EVs. Nice discussion on why this was a complete waste of time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tEvuuwzJDc

Tesla-David | 06. März 2020

This article only reinforces the message that Tesla Battery Day will be huge and bad news for all legacy automobile manufacturers.

"Batteries are key to staying on top of the electric vehicle segment and Tesla is the leader of the pack when it comes to batteries and energy efficiency. This has been validated by organizations such as Consumer Reports and even by competitors who go deep into their pockets and go as far as cutting their workforces to catch Tesla in terms of hardware, software, and battery technology.

Come Tesla Battery Day, the obvious would be made more obvious. Tesla could further widen the gap and set itself apart from the rest, not just as the maker of the Model 3, Model Y, Cybertruck or other vehicles in its lineup but as an energy company."

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-battery-day-doomsday-legacy-carmakers-el...

andy.connor.e | 06. März 2020

Just watched the video. Essentially, GM was answering questions, and basically saying what they want people to believe. They want people to believe GM customers are agnostic, EVs are not more efficient than ICE, yadda yadda. GM is done. 8 years sounds good to me. That will give GM more time to shut down factories and lay off enough people to not need a bail out.

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