Forums

Is anyone developing a CCS charge adapter for Tesla's ???

Is anyone developing a CCS charge adapter for Tesla's ???

As we all know, Tesla is the only EV that can use ALL charging formats via adapters with ONE exception.

--Combined Charging System (CCS)--

Is anyone aware of some entity working on a CCS adapter for Tesla drivers?

I have every conceivable AC and DC adapter in my Frunk and would love to complete the collection with a CCS adapter... just in case.

Thoughts???

Earl and Nagin ... | 29. November 2016

I agree. It is time now.
Supposedly, the electrical standard for Tesla's superchargers is similar if not identical to CCS. It should be very easy to make an adapter. I suppose that Tesla just hasn't felt it is worth the effort given the small number of CCS charging stations out there. They did CHAdeMO when Japan launched thousands of CHAdeMO stations.
Looking at plugshare.com, however, there are certainly a lot of CCS stations in the US today.

bdrathburn | 29. November 2016

Tesla is a Core Member of the Charin EV Initiative, they are likely already working on an adapter.

http://charinev org/members/our-members/

DTsea | 29. November 2016

do those actually exist anywhere (ccs chargers)

ram1901 | 29. November 2016

@DTsea BIg agreement today between Europe's Big Three auto makers and Ford to build a higher power CCS network across Europe.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20161129/COPY01/311299947/ford-bmw-daiml...

sosmerc | 29. November 2016

I saw that article today as well and thought that it sure would be great if there could be a worldwide "standard" for fast charging. Wouldn't that make it easier for everyone? Seems like a "standard" would speed up the progress of BEV acceptance and demand. Isn't that what we all want? (and what would really excite me would be a standard wireless charging system that would work with every BEV out there)

grega | 29. November 2016

In Europe the Tesla Destination chargers and standard Mennekes chargers are almost identical for AC charging at 11kW or less (Type 2 charging). Tesla just doesn't let Mennekes use Tesla Destination chargers - meaning regular EVs and any newer CCS2 cars wanting a multi-hour/overnight charge can fit the plug in, but it doesn't switch on.

Anyway, Tesla is probably already trying to merge their system with CCS's future. And an adapter could be pretty simple, and much smaller than the Chademo adapter.

TeslaTap.com | 29. November 2016

Perhaps the Model 3 trunk opening will be used to fit all the connectors - Tesla, SAE Combo, CCS2, J1772, NEMA 14-50, Mennekes, and CHAdeMO.

CHAdeMO is also working on a higher power charger/connector so we might add that as well!

grega | 29. November 2016

No need for all 7 :) An SAE Combo can take a J1772 plug directly (lower power). Similarly a CCS Combo (CCS2) includes Mennekes.

To cover everything in the US an "all connector" car would want the Tesla socket, SAE Combo/CCS1, and Chademo (potential NEMA 14-50 for backup).

To cover everything in Europe you'd want a Combo/CCS2 and Chademo (potential CEE plug for backup). Makes sense for them to have a CCS2 in any case.

Pity CCS can't get a common worldwide standard, with 150 or 350kW :). Maybe Chademo is smarter in that way... and allows powering your house.

grega | 29. November 2016

** Don't mean to imply I'd like multiple sockets in a vehicle. I think Chademo has a different connector for home or fast charging, which is a weakness.

I can imagine European Model ≡'s having a single Combo/CCS2 connector though for commercial or Tesla supercharging.

kevin | 29. November 2016

I think virtually all CCS chargers also have CHAdeMO, at least in the US.

grega | 29. November 2016

Has to be the way forward for now doesn't it?

Every public charger should offer a:
a) CCS Charger
b) Chademo charger.

It's a pity that US and Europe are different with (a).
Doesn't help Tesla either (though as I said in Europe Tesla could switch to (a) in new cars with almost no effort).

Does anyone know whether the upcoming >100kW standards are changing their plug types?

Earl and Nagin ... | 30. November 2016

The big issue with Tesla is that they couldn't wait for the standards to develop. The J-1772 standard was completed about a year after the release of the Roadster. Tesla would have gone broke if they had waited another year. There is still no DCFC other than Tesla's Supercharger that is capable of more than 50 kW. The Tesla connector is still superior, even to the CCS and CHAdeMO future discussions because the nozzles (aka connectors) are miserably huge and ungainly thus significantly impacting car design decisions.
Tesla has the choice of better or standard. Since nobody else is even deploying the standard products intelligently, Tesla's choice seems quite obviously correct.

Rocky_H | 30. November 2016

@grega, Quote: "In Europe the Tesla Destination chargers and standard Mennekes chargers are almost identical for AC charging at 11kW or less (Type 2 charging). Tesla just doesn't let Mennekes use Tesla Destination chargers - meaning regular EVs and any newer CCS2 cars wanting a multi-hour/overnight charge can fit the plug in, but it doesn't switch on."

That is not true at all. The Tesla wall connectors which are the destination chargers work just fine for all other types of EVs in Europe. They use the Type 2 connector (Mennekes), and yes, it does work fine as any other regular Mennekes AC charging unit for all other types of electric cars. Here is a link about this from the TeslaMotorsClub forum:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/1499762/

Rocky_H | 30. November 2016

Regarding the European destination chargers, perhaps that is still a little questionable. In that thread, someone refers to some kind of software in the wall connectors that blocks other EVs from using them, but multiple other people have reported using several different ones with other brands of EVs.

kenneth.ellefsen | 09. Februar 2018

IONITY is the newly formed joint venture of BMW Group, Daimler AG, Ford Motor Company and the Volkswagen Group with Audi and Porsche. We are here to build a network of reliable and powerful charging stations along major routes across Europe. These stations are comfortable to use and they allow fast charging times due to their capacity of up to 350 kW. As a result, IONITY makes long-distance travel with electric vehicles an enjoyable experience.

They just announced 400 stations in Europe by end of 2019.

It's time to start cooking that CCS adapter Tesla :) I'de by one, hell, I'll even preoder one, take my money right now! :)

kenneth.ellefsen | 09. Februar 2018

By stations I meant sites, each site with roughly 6 charge points.

TeslaTap.com | 09. Februar 2018

Great that finally a few automakers are stepping up to install chargers. I really wonder if they can really get 400 sites in 2 years, but a good goal. Once there are enough CCS stations, I expect Tesla will make an adapter, like they did for CHAdeMO.

I do wonder if the 350 kW is shared across 6 stalls or each stall has 350 kW. For example, today, 6 Supercharger stalls can provide a total of 405 kW at once, distributed to the different stalls in 11 kW increments.

Evoforce | 14. Februar 2018

We need much more help here in the US.

stevepimen | 03. Mai 2018

CHAdeMO is 45 kW (CCS is 350 kW now) and due the complicity is not so reliable. CCS is only competitor to the Tesla Supercharger. Tesla made the CHAdeMO adapter to promote the fast charger and fight the main competitor. To make an adapter it is make real time protocol translator. Eg. Arduino PC with an 'proprietary translator app' can do it.
It is much easy to translate CCS J1772 protocol to Tesla then Japanise CHAdeMO because Tesla charging protocol based on J1772 protocol, that why you can charge from any J1772 charger just with simple adapter with few wires.

din | 15. Juli 2019

I work in the industry developing the protocol for CCS1/2 (which is DIN and ISO-15518).

My feeling is there will never be a CCS1 adapter, and Chademo is unfortunately going away - or so it's rumored.

So why won't a CCS1 adapter ever exist? The communication standard for CCS1 is, well, insane. It's an overly complex standard using what is called EXI which is a digital standard for XML. The XML is a mess. It communicates over Power Line Communication (PLC) and uses IPV6, two servers - one running under UDP the other on TCP. PLC communication is essentially a form of Ethernet communication, it's just doing it over power lines and it's relatively slow compared to standard Ethernet.

This mean that you need a microprocessor, capable of supporting an IPV6 stack, that is able to read EXI (no small feat - trust me) and convert this to some format that the Tesla can understand.

As I understand it (and I'm not an expert in this), the Chademo adapter causes the Tesla to communicate in Chademo. The Tesla (again, I may be wrong) uses CAN communication, and Chademo does as well. The adapter causes the Tesla to start communicating in Chademo and not its native, proprietary, standard. Essentially I don't believe the Chademo adapter needs any real complex logic to work nor any complex hardware. With CCS it certainly would.

Tesla does support CCS2 (that's Europe only) but they don't use an adapter - it's a CCS2 port built into the car. It should be a small matter for Tesla to make CCS1 available in the areas they use it, but it's a question of if they will. They have the communication stack for CCS1 at least. CCS1 and 2 have the same (insane) communication format, but the plugs are different.

However, if you are willing to pay me $10 million, I MIGHT be able to make such an adapter - maybe. It would be a CCS1 to Chademo adapter, and I'd probably get sued by Tesla in developing it. Probably a very poor investment.

BuffaloBillsFan | 15. Juli 2019

@din,

Thanks for your response. I didn’t understand a word of it, which means nothing, since I do not engineer CCS adapters. That said, you have adequately explained why CCS adapters are not available for my Model 3.

Such a shame that everyone can’t decide on a universal charger right now . . . It would make EV owning so much more manageable. That said, I’m sticking with Tesla superchargers. It will get my car anywhere I want to go even now (with the caveat that I need to install a level 2 charger in our mountain cabin). As soon as Tesla starts putting more superchargers in more remote areas, I won’t have to worry about CCS charging anymore.

In the longer term, however, there needs to be one standard to move EVs forward to mainstream marketability.

din | 15. Juli 2019

@BuffaloBillsFan

Hey, I went to UB..

I'm a terrible teacher, basically the problem is for a Tesla to CCS adapter, you need to have a microprocessor built into the cable, and that would need a battery to power it unless the Tesla could power it. The communication standard of CCS is needlessly complicated and difficult to implement since it uses a very obscure encoding standard which is very poorly documented (and if anybody DARES to dispute this, I'll give them an XML example and ask them to explain how it's encoded entirely confident that they can't..)

I agree that it's a pity that there isn't agreement on a standard. Within CCS there isn't even agreement on a standard cable - there's a European cable (CCS2) and an American cable (CCS1). There's not much data that has to be actually communicated between the battery and the charging station. However, with CCS there's TONS of useless data that is required which just adds additional, useless complexity.

There's even disagreement among manufacturers about how the CCS communication standard should work. We've done trial and error with hundreds of cars to find out what works and what doesn't. Cars violate the standard and I've seen charging units (technically) violate the standard - and the standard is not entirely clear in many MANY places. I'm not surprised that Tesla isn't too interested in working with CCS, in my opinion, it's a terrible standard which should be entirely replaced. Chademo has electrical limitations but it's relatively trivial to implement from the point of view of communication.

To be clear, I think it would be possible to make such a CCS adapter, but I think it would be quite expensive. Tesla may make a car with a CCS charging port in the future available in North America. They certainly have the capability. It would be a lot easier (and probably cheaper) to make a car with a CCS port, than an adapter.

BTW: I gave up on the Bills when they blew their last super bowl for the 4th time. I figured nobody in the AFC could win the Super Bowl, but then I was sent out as an FAE to Boulder Colorado and heard the practical riots on January 25, 1998 when the Broncos won.

TeslaTap.com | 16. Juli 2019

As for standards, you have to understand that the automotive industry has chosen two very clunky systems to make EV charging as miserable as possible. As far as I can tell, other than Tesla, no automaker cares about charging and are happy to show how awful EVs are and you should stick with massively polluting ICE cars that they sell by the boatload. The connectors for both CCS and CHAdeMO are heavy, bulky and quite expensive. Seems every CHAdeMO and CCS station I've come across uses a different UI, so that no two operate the same. Then you often have to join multiple networks to use them. I'm not sure I could come up with a worst design if I tried. Tesla really is ahead of the game by a huge margin. Ok, rant over:)

Roger1 | 18. Juli 2019

CCS has standardized the physical interconnection (plug and socket) and communication protocol. The communications protocol has version 1.0 (80kW maximum power) and 2.0 (350kW maximum power). The CCS 2.0 communications protocol is the same for Europe and North America. The plug and socket are different with Europe having the IEC Type 2 specification and North America using the 'Combo 2'. The Combo 2 starts with the familiar J connector for AC charging and adds two large pins below for DC charging. The result is a bulky connector that would look at home on the back of a forklift truck.

The importance of the common communications protocol in the Tesla world is the same software and hardware controller for Europe and North America. The Model 3 is delivered in Europe with CCS charging so the software and hardware controller exists and is likely installed in North American Model 3 vehicles. The updated model S and X (Raven) in Europe can charge from CCS with the purchase of a physical adapter from CCS Type 2 to European Tesla connector.

Tesla has a very focused effort underway to minimization variations between vehicles so I think it is fair to assume that North American S and X produced starting in May 2019 have the same electronics as European S and X. If this assumption is valid then 'Raven' version S and X in North America have CCS 2 capability. Lack of a physical adaptor from CCS Combo 2 socket to Tesla plug prevents this capability from being used. Can a safe Combo 2 to Tesla adaptor be designed and manufactured?

Tesla offers an electronics upgrade to European customers with pre-May 2019 S and X models. The upgraded cars can use the CCS to Tesla adaptor to charge from CCS chargers. Perhaps this same electronics upgrade is possible with North American cars.

In summary, Tesla offers CCS charging upgrades for model S and X in Europe. The path to offer CCS for North American S,X and M3 is clear when Tesla decides to offer the capability.