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I am perfectly fine with a single center display, but...

I am perfectly fine with a single center display, but...

I am curious how they solve for blind spot detection.

I would suggest it's already weak in the Model S/X being in the display rather than the mirror.

What do you all think?

How will they handle blind spot detection? Do they move it to the mirror? I hope so!

To add to this, I understand Elon's tweet re: autonomous cars and not needing more than the one display and my only counter-point to that is that autonomous driving is an option and he doesn't know how many people will select that option.

KP in NPT | 25. März 2017

+1 on the autonomous driving excuse.

If he were building the car for autonomy, it would have swivel seats, retractable steering wheel, and tons of infotainment.

tstolz | 25. März 2017

He may be assuming pretty much everyone will add L5 once it is legal and proven. Why would you not get it? In the future .. imagine ...
- Car drives itself to service appointments
- Car drops you off and picks you up where-ever you go
- The car will self deliver when you buy it
- You can sleep while on long trips if you don't feel like driving
- You can rent the car out as a taxi when not using it
- Charge points and parking would no longer need to be exactly where you are ... just within a reasonable distance (apartment dwellers, going out, etc.)
- ... etc

SoFlaModel3 | 25. März 2017

I think that is a very poor assumption.

This is a 30-50k car.

Many will finance or lease.

Odds are low that a high volume of people will add a 3-6k option after without financing.

jefjes | 25. März 2017

@tstolz
Everyone just might eventually. The added cost upfront may cause many in this price demographic to put it on the back burner as a priority compared to other options. Also the slow roll out of AP2 isn't helping. Many new buyers of MS/X are and have been expressing their frustration of the lack of functionality compared to where AP1 was. If Tesla provides a useful trial version for free on a limited time to new buyers as a way for everyone to see the advantages, I do believe many will either add it when the trial period is over or start saving to add it later.

carlk | 25. März 2017

You don't know how to use outside mirrors? Better than any blind spot warning that could ever do.

SoFlaModel3 | 25. März 2017

Of course I know how to use mirrors, but that's doesn't mean a small bright light on my mirror isn't a very nice touch.

I know when the complaints rolled in for the Model S many posted the age old link of how to properly setup your mirrors to eliminate blind spots.

All that said, it's very simple and easy and a nice touch and most definitely a safety feature.

sosmerc | 25. März 2017

If insurance companies respond to all of the added "safety features" by lowering premiums then I might be inclined to want them. But my insurance company did not off any discounts to me because my new Volt has features like lane keeping, and adaptive cruise control, and such. I bought the Premier Volt anyway because I really wanted the adaptive cruise control and the lane keeping. I had to pay alot more for it too.
Maybe Tesla really should look into providing the option for insurance since they will know the car and its abilities better than anyone.
Hope I can live with my Volt for the 2 years I'll most likely be waiting for my AWD M3 !

gavinfaulkner | 25. März 2017

@carlk

You don't use outside mirrors to check your blind spot. You turn your head.

PhillyGal | 25. März 2017

@Gavin - I think that's the point of the link he is talking about. So the saying goes, if you properly set up your mirrors, you don't have any blind spots.

akgolf | 25. März 2017

@PhillyGal - Exactly.

My mirrors are properly adjusted and I see the car in the rear view mirror, side mirror or peripheral vision. No need to turn my head.

Have not convinced my wife this is possible yet, she still likes seeing the side of the car in the side mirrors.

Carl Thompson | 25. März 2017

PhillyGal:
"So the saying goes, if you properly set up your mirrors, you don't have any blind spots."

The problem with that theory is that it assumes the car in your blind spot stays in the same relative place long enough for you to check both mirrors and you peripheral vision. It doesn't acknowledge the possibility that the other car can move from one mirror's blind spot to the other's in the time it takes you to shift your eyes from one mirror to the other.

Carl

Carl

Carl

carlk | 25. März 2017

@SoFlaModel3

So you actually have read about it? Real image in a properly adjusted mirror is the best you will ever get and it's so easy to do too. Is there a reason that you don't want to do it that way and still want a (not as good) "blind spot" idiot warning light?

@Carl Thompson I only need to look at one mirror at a time. Never once I had to check both sides to decide which sides I want to go. When you look at the mirror you see the actual image not just an idiot light or idiot alarm that you still have no idea what exactly is there. Not to mention some of those warnings do not activate unless you have started the blinker. One of the worse driving habits is for someone to start the blinker BEFORE deciding to make the lane change. It can be dangerous when other drivers can not know for sure what your real intention is.

akgolf | 25. März 2017

There are NO blind spots if you adjust the mirrors correctly. The car can't move to a blind spot because there isn't one.

mos6507 | 25. März 2017

There should just be a mounting slot for your cell phone and an app to display the spedometer behind the wheel. There's your second display right there.

kp647 | 25. März 2017

Blind spot monitors on the mirrors are becoming a basic feature on cars . Even economy cars.
The center screen only design would seem to mean Tesla must adopt this style Blind spot system since they can not use the cluster.
It's not that expensive and doesn't need to be standard , but it should be an options.

kp647 | 25. März 2017

For those who say mirrors adjusted properly are good enough.
Mirrors can be obscured by fog, water drops ice and snow. BSM works in all those conditions
Also try selling a new car these days without it .see how you do

akgolf | 25. März 2017

I've driven in Alaska for 28 years and have never had a problem keeping my side mirrors clean.

2016 Toyota Prius V does not have BSM. I'm sure there are many other cars without it.

Badbot | 25. März 2017

Oh Oh I know install a crash monitor display.

bash into someone in your blind spot and the car announces you have had an accident, I will flash ALL your lights every minuet so the public knows to run from you.

carlk | 25. März 2017

@kp647 All Tesla cars have heated mirrors. As for selling new cars without it Tesla has been very successfully doing it. Other lame cars may need to have gimmickry to induce uninformed buyers though. Just watch those dumb commercials to brain wash people that they have the greatest car because of those flashing warning lights.

Badbot | 25. März 2017

status check shows that your idiot light went out just before you totaled that Rolls Royce.

carlk | 26. März 2017

akgolf
"Have not convinced my wife this is possible yet, she still likes seeing the side of the car in the side mirrors."

Looks your wife is not alone. People would say why you want to see side of the car? You're not sure if it will always be there? I wouldn't recommend you say this to your wife though. ;)

SoFlaModel3 | 26. März 2017

Tesla has been successful selling cars without it. Yes that's true. Though, it's possibly the worst thing about the Model S. Well, second place behind having to take off your watch to the adjust the seat position because there isn't enough room. I would also suggest with the Model 3 only having one screen this is now a worse experience because you're looking down and to the right for blind spot detection.

Yes, I have my mirrors properly adjusted. That said, drivers are crazy in South Florida and the so-called "idiot light" is key for catching a quick change that has occurred from the time you looked from the side mirror to the rear view and back.

hoffmannjames | 26. März 2017

Maybe the Model 3 will use auditory warnings to tell drivers about objects in their blind spots? It is also possible that there will be signals where the dashboard screen used to be.

It will be interesting to actually drive a Model 3 and see what it is like. Driving a car with no dashboard, just a screen to the side, will be odd. I definitely get the impression that Tesla is going for a very minimalist approach with the 3 because they want drivers to get the self-driving package. So they figure, why bother putting a bunch of stuff in the car like a dashboard if the driver won't need them because of self-driving?

PhillyGal | 26. März 2017

I still turn my head. It's just a habit.
But I have taken the advice to adjust my mirrors such to see everything. "Check twice, merge once."
Or wait, is that measure ;)

SoFlaModel3 | 26. März 2017

See that's the thing... while I had an epiphany last night and I'm back to wanting autopilot, I don't think it's safe to assume most will go with full self driving let alone autopilot and to that end that car has to be great for those who choose that route.

Good point on the auditory note. My current car will beep if I put on my blinker and a car is in my blind spot. It's equally as effective as the light in the mirror, but then again I need to use my blinker :)

carlk | 26. März 2017

@SoFlaModel3 Good to hear that you got your mirrors properly adjusted now. So are you relying on real image in the mirror or that idiot light to make the final lane change decision? What do you do in the following scenarios, when you see a car next but the light is not on, and when you do not see a car but light it on. Do you follow the the real image or the idiot light? That is even if needing to check both at the same time would not distract you from making a quick decision. I think the answer is pretty obvious for non-idiots.

And like I said before putting the blinker on before you decide to move is one of the stupidest habit a driver could have and it can be dangerous too. The car next wouldn't know that you're just testing the water and could take evasive actions that actually are dangerous if it's not just annoyance. The best way to make a lane change is to check the mirror, and turn head if you like, and put on the blinker and make the move at the same time if it's clear. But what else could I say? There are more idiotic driver than good drivers in this country. The saddest thing is people would rather spend time argue than just to learn how to drive.

brando | 26. März 2017

I wonder why so many countries have less auto death than the US.
Doesn't seem to be better designed roads nor safer built cars.

https://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

Now that I have read through this thread, I think I see why. Do you?

Carl Thompson | 26. März 2017

carlk:
"And like I said before putting the blinker on before you decide to move is one of the stupidest habit a driver could have and it can be dangerous too. The car next wouldn't know that you're just testing the water and could take evasive actions that actually are dangerous if it's not just annoyance. The best way to make a lane change is to check the mirror, and turn head if you like, and put on the blinker and make the move at the same time if it's clear. But what else could I say? There are more idiotic driver than good drivers in this country. The saddest thing is people would rather spend time argue than just to learn how to drive."

I have to disagree with you a little, Carl. Yes, you make the decision to switch lanes first. But then you put on your blinker and _wait_ a few seconds to let everyone know your intent. If you're just going to put on your blinker at the same time you're already moving over you might as well not even bother.

Carl

SoFlaModel3 | 26. März 2017

@Carl, as I said my mirrors have always been pretty setup. That said the idiot light is still nice. You know why? There are idiots on the road.

Putting on your blinker is an invitation for someone to speed up or jump in the space you want. Sad truth about the Florida roads.

To that end you would literally be constantly checking and never going. In fact that's the other end of the spectrum here, the drivers that are so nervous that they drive with the blinker on, slow to a crawl, and never change lanes.

So for me... well, generally speaking I'm passing so I already know I'm going faster than the car I am overtaking. The idiot light simply spares in case someone jumped in the lane because I'm not studying the mirror again but the light shining in my peripheral vision is enough to second guess a lane change.

I suppose there are varying levels of quality blind spot warning systems. In my car, I find it to work very well. In fact I can't recall ever getting a false. In the end better safe than sorry.

bmalloy0 | 26. März 2017

@SoFla "Putting on your blinker is an invitation for someone to speed up or jump in the space you want. Sad truth about the Florida roads."

New Jersey, too

denkav2 | 26. März 2017

A few years back I noticed that I was having a few close calls with my lane changing and I realised I was just using the mirrors. I decided then to always check over my shoulder regardless of what the mirrors show. Since then my confidence and success with lane changing has improved considerably. This is in the Australian context of course.

carlk | 26. März 2017

@SoFlaModel3 Even if the idiot light never gives false alarm it's still not as good as when you can see how far away cars are there and even how fast they are moving up. It's just better to use the mirror than the alarm in every possible situation. I originally thought that it does not hurt to have both but the more I think about it the more I see it's not the case. You can't concentrate on both at the same time. Any attention giving to the relatively useless warning light when you're making split second decisions is not going to be a good thing.

SoFlaModel3 | 26. März 2017

@carl, I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. It's a fraction of a second with the idiot light in your peripheral vision and that split second (at the last second) is ultimately worth more time on the mirrors.

It's the late lane change that you couldn't see because you turned your head back around to also make sure you're not about to run into the car in front of you.

SoFlaModel3 | 26. März 2017

PS - I am not suggesting it's one or the other. I am saying it's both that makes for safe lane changing.

If you live in an area with bad congestion, especially at highway speeds it's downright critical. If you're studying your mirrors, you've hit the car in front of you that has jammed on their brakes because they were texting and driving and not paying attention.

Again the "idiot light" is a life saver because you see it out of the corner of your eye without drawing your attention from what's in front of you.

You check your mirror, you check back in front of you to make sure the situation hasn't changed and you start going. The light coming on let's you know the scenario changed very quickly.

carlk | 26. März 2017

@SoFlaModel3 I live in the SF Bay area which has the most congested highways and most aggressive drivers in the country second to probably only LA. No we don't need to agree but ultimately you're the one who will bear the consequnce of what you do. Like many other subjects in life, health and financial are two other examples, the winner is not necessarily the one who wins a debate. The one who got into less accidents, has better investment returns and lived the longest wins.

Carl Thompson | 26. März 2017

carlk:
"I live in the SF Bay area which has the most congested highways and most aggressive drivers in the country second to probably only LA."

Nah. I used to live on the east coast and now I live in the SF Bay Area also. Drivers in the Bay Area do drive faster (when they can) but they are nowhere near as aggressive and downright nasty as on the east cost.

Carl

SoFlaModel3 | 26. März 2017

@carlk - there is no debate here. It's a safety feature. If your car has it and you choose not to use it, that's up to you.
Seat belts are a safety feature and you know, they're pesky and annoying, so you could simply not use it if you didn't hit things, right?

My point is ... we check our mirrors, but an added safety feature like a light that is easy to notice without losing your attention of the road is a smart feature.

Tesla accomplishes this with the S through the screen behind the wheel. I suggest that the center screen is unnecessary in the 3 assuming the current speed is going to be a fixture at the top-left of the single display but the blind spot detection being on the single display will be out of place.

carlk | 26. März 2017

The fact that you think it's a safety feature just says you're a bad driver. Using the outside mirror is perfectly safe if you do it right. What did you do when there were no feature like this in any cars before? You never make a lane change or just move and pray?

Carl Thompson | 26. März 2017

@carlk

As I and others have said the mirrors all have a very limited field of view. There is no such thing as a mirror that shows you everything you need to see to avoid an accident. And if you use multiple mirrors to try to get a bigger picture things can change in the time it takes you to shift your eyes from one to another. I won't go into how human cognition works here but your brain can only see and pay attention to one small spot at a time despite the illusion created by it. The car can pay attention to everything at once and can recognize changes much faster than you. It _is_ a safety feature and even you would be safer with it.

Carl

carlk | 27. März 2017

"As I and others have said the mirrors all have a very limited field of view. "

As I and others have said it's only because you did not adjust them correctly.

SoFlaModel3 | 27. März 2017

"The fact that you think it's a safety feature just says you're a bad driver."

I guess that's he only possible answer.

"Using the outside mirror is perfectly safe if you do it right."

And when someone jumps into the lane after you looked away from the mirror but before you have started changing lanes?

"What did you do when there were no feature like this in any cars before?"

What did anyone do before any technology was introduced? They did the best the could with what was available at the time.

Carl Thompson | 27. März 2017

carlk:
"As I and others have said it's only because you did not adjust them correctly."

Adjusting the mirror does not increase its field of view. Go back and read what I and others have said and stop being stubborn.

Carl

AlMc | 27. März 2017

Nothing to do with the long mirror/BSW debate but I will comment about aggressive drivers: I grew up in the Boston area and have lived in/traveled to many other areas of the country. You want aggressive: Rotaries in the Boston area. Nothing like them any other place in the US.

carlk | 27. März 2017

Carl Thompson
"Adjusting the mirror does not increase its field of view. Go back and read what I and others have said and stop being stubborn."

There is enough field of view you just need to eliminate the "blind spot". I can adjust the mirror so that I can see everything in the next lane from next to the passenger door to 100's of feet behind if I lean a little toward the mirror. Try it the next time you're stopped in traffic if you can do that. I'm sure you can.

SoFlaModel3
"What did anyone do before any technology was introduced? They did the best the could with what was available at the time."

Move and pray? That's exactly what I meant too many bad drivers in this country.

carlk | 27. März 2017

AlMc

I don't know what kind of aggressive drivers those people are but I can tell you a lot of conservative drivers drive that way only because they are bad drivers. Does not mean conservative drivers are all bad drivers of course. It the same as there are nice people because they are nice but there are also nice people only because they are weak that they couldn't be not nice.

SoFlaModel3 | 27. März 2017

We can close out this thread... stick a fork in it.

@carlk is the world's best driver and no one else will ever understand.

carlk | 27. März 2017

You can and should just delete this silly thread.

Haggy | 27. März 2017

Drivers in places like NYC might be more aggressive but they are nowhere near as nasty. They might not want you to change lanes if they were waiting in theirs for the past mile, but they won't try to block you in normal circumstances, or even heavy traffic, just to block you. Bay Area drivers are far worse.

This is directly relevant with respect to blind spots, because a Bay Area driver will see you are changing lanes but speed up to intentionally block you even if there's no place to go.

As for blind spots, of course they exist. That's why there's a definition for them. With my mirrors properly adjusted, I can see well down the adjacent lanes with my side mirrors. With traffic close behind or tailgating me, or in heavy traffic, I can't do that with the rear view mirror. If I set my side mirrors to see the blind spots, I miss the rest of the lanes and might not see them at all through the rear view mirror. I drove with my mirrors in the position that shows blind spots for far too long before reverting to the positions that most people have recommended all along.

It was obvious to people all along that mirrors could be adjusted to see the blind spots, but it also became immediately obvious to people that it results in losing what side mirrors were designed for in the first place. Rear view mirrors were already there when side mirrors came out. If people could already see those areas with rear view mirrors, blind spot mirrors would have been added instead of ones that allow people to see far down adjacent lanes.

What's needed are blind spot indicators in the side mirrors or on the A pillars. With the Model S, the displays were already there. The sensors needed to be added anyway for autopilot. That meant that using the display could allow for blind spot indication without needing extra hardware. With the Model 3, I can't see that happening without a display in front of the driver.

akgolf | 27. März 2017

I've never driven a car where I couldn't adjust the mirrors to eliminate the blind spot.

I think newer technology with collision warnings are great and look forward to them on whatever car I get, but your side mirrors can and should be adjusted correctly.

Carl Thompson | 27. März 2017

Haggy:
"Drivers in places like NYC might be more aggressive but they are nowhere near as nasty. They might not want you to change lanes if they were waiting in theirs for the past mile, but they won't try to block you in normal circumstances, or even heavy traffic, just to block you. Bay Area drivers are far worse."

I guess it's kind of subjective. My own belief as a transplant from the east coast to the Bay Area is that drivers on the east coast are more aggressive and more likely to be weaving traffic at a high rate of speed relative to most other traffic.

I remember when I first moved to the Bay Area I was driving with someone from the Bay Area and she said:

"Why didn't you stop for that pedestrian crossing the street?"

My response having just moved from the east coast:

"Why would I stop for a pedestrian?"

That pretty much sums it up.

Carl

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