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Alex, I'll take 3 most overrated things for $35k

Alex, I'll take 3 most overrated things for $35k

What are
20 year old women (or men)
Bacon
Tesla M3

Here is my point. Some things we enjoy playing up in our minds. I realize why I am buying a Tesla Model 3.

I am vain and like the cool factor.

I know this is my way to keep the world cooler and give less money to people who want bomb me.

I believe the car is worth the money.

If any of these feelings are squashed then my reason for being part of the herd is lost. I am cheep. My last new car was in 1989. The M3 needs to be cool. It needs to allow me buy an Eco Indulgence (Look it up). Most importantly I need to believe the purchase is a good deal.

I can buy a car for $15k. I am planning to spend an extra $30k on this car in return for the belief that it is cool, helps save the world, and retains value over time (8 years). If those beliefs, even in the name of being honest, are ruined...then this is not as fun.

I guess I am asking to not be faced with any reality that will ruin the fun until I have to put money (non-refundable kind) on the table. My decision won't be made until that day. Let me enjoy this until then.

Shesmyne2 | 26. März 2017

I just like the headline topic!
...and I won't speculate.

Still Grinning ;-)

NKYTA | 26. März 2017

The Space Shuttle?

The Trump Presidency?

The i8?

The decline of EPA funding?

The $$ spent debunking the fact that we landed on the moon?

--Altenative Facts Cost --

Rosscvp | 26. März 2017

Why are you taking up space?

Carl Thompson | 26. März 2017

Bacon is not overrated.

Garyeop | 26. März 2017

@Shesmyne2 Enjoy.
@NKYTA Someone in power thinks they are John Galt.
@Rosscvp I am also breathing your air.
@Carl I need to take you camping. Barbeque rabbit can change your life. :)

mntlvr23 | 26. März 2017

Over-rated:
Nissan Leaf SL
MSRP starting at $36790
Loses 65% of its value in 3 years
No Supercharging

Under-rated:
Tesla Model 3
When I made my reservation on 03/31/16:
1) I expected to pay around $2.5K to enable supercharging, and now it looks like there is no charge to enable SC, but just a nominaL cost per charge (and maybe 1000 miles a year free)
2) I expected a base battery range of 215 miles, and now Elon has hinted at a higher base range.
3) I expected to get my car in late 2018 at the earliest, and now they plan a ramped up production which might get my car delivered in 2017.
4) I had never heard of HUD and did not expect it on my car. Now, it sounds like it might not be on the car (though I am not too sure about that) but no worries since I didn't expect it.
5) I had seen the extensive SC network that existed in early 2016 and thought it was great. Now, I am absolutely overjoyed by the news that the system will be doubled by the end 2017.
6) I had only had a short test drive in a MS and thought it was great
Since then, I took a 1,000 mile trip in a rental and found that I don't want any other car than a Tesla (and was pleasantly surprised to see only one other car at a SC station in my 7 stops)
7) I am sure there is more, but it is late and it is time for bed.

carlk | 27. März 2017

Just one underrated thing for the 3. It will drive like no other ICE car, or for that matter no other car excluding S/X or even including them.

Carl Thompson | 27. März 2017

@mntlvr23

Good post! Completely agree.

siddhu | 27. März 2017

@mntlvr23 can't agree more..

topher | 27. März 2017

Garyeop

You are paying too much for your 20 y.o. women (men) and bacon.

Thank you kindly.

newton.corey | 27. März 2017

Bacon? ... Sinner

I think I fit into the same category as you only a little less extreme. I put my deposit expecting a small car with >200 mile range, that will do 0-60 in less than 6 seconds, and look good doing it. I'm planning to buy the car from Tesla because they're an American auto company doing something American auto companies haven't done in a long time.....innovate. The innovation card adds substantial cool capital, but it isn't limitless.

It's neat that M3 is better for the environment, although I'll still be burning natural gas to recharge it, so it's not going to increase sea turtle populations or anything. The environmental impact isn't enough to sell me on the car anyway. It also has to replace the functionality I'd get from an ICE vehicle. The M3, as described so far, does this with very little compromise.

I've asked myself whether I'd still be interested in the vehicle if half of the premium options available on the Model S, as seen on the design studio, don't make it to the M3. Yes. What if air suspension and the subzero package don't make it? Yes, still interested. At what point does a lack of options make a BMW 3 series or Audi A4 a more attractive option? We shall see when the final specs and options list become available.

The speculated options we've seen floating around are just wishful thinking until we get the real info from Tesla. I'm perfectly happy driving the doors off my old pickup until then.

mntlvr23 | 27. März 2017

@topher - lol

Carl Thompson | 27. März 2017

newton.corey:
" I'm planning to buy the car from Tesla because they're an American auto company doing something American auto companies haven't done in a long time.....innovate."

Well, I'm not sure about that. I equate Tesla to Apple. The don't really do anything that hasn't been done before. They're just doing it _better_ than everyone else. Tesla does have the supercharger network, though, which I guess _is_ innovative because no manufacturer has thought to do it before. So I guess at least in innovative.

Carl

Carl Thompson | 27. März 2017

newton.corey:
"I've asked myself whether I'd still be interested in the vehicle if half of the premium options available on the Model S, as seen on the design studio, don't make it to the M3. Yes."

Ditto. I'm happy with a basic car that goes 200+ miles and is reliable. (Hopefully 280+ miles with an upgraded battery.)

Carl

JayInJapan | 27. März 2017

I equate Tesla to Apple as well, only everything they both do has _never_ been done before. How does one get that _backwards_?!

SamO | 27. März 2017

Right @JiJ. I mean the weirdest and broadest overgeneralizations since Pungo Dave.

KP in NPT | 27. März 2017

Without Tesla there would be no race for full autonomy. No OTA updates. No other companies offering up all their new _compelling_ BEV prototypes. No gigafactory and no companies announcing future gigafactories. No startups crawling out of the woodwork trying to create the Tesla Killer. No nationwide charging networks. BS they don't innovate.

Carl Thompson | 27. März 2017

JayInJapan:
"I equate Tesla to Apple as well, only everything they both do has _never_ been done before. How does one get that _backwards_?!"

I think the supercharger network hasn't been done before. Aside from that everything else has been done before, right? Tesla is just doing it _better_.

Carl

KP in NPT | 27. März 2017

in·no·vate

ˈinəˌvāt/Submit

verb

make changes in something established, especially by introducing new methods, ideas, or products.
"the company's failure to diversify and innovate competitively"

Carl Thompson | 27. März 2017

KP:
"Without Tesla there would be no race for full autonomy. No OTA updates. No other companies offering up all their new _compelling_ BEV prototypes. No gigafactory and no companies announcing future gigafactories. No startups crawling out of the woodwork trying to create the Tesla Killer. No nationwide charging networks. BS they don't innovate."

All of that aside from the supercharger network has been done before. For example, GM has had OTA updates since at least 2007. Tesla just does it better.

Carl

SamO | 27. März 2017

Autopilot - Tesla first
OTA Updates for full car OS - Tesla first
Superchargers - Tesla only
Destination Charging - Tesla only
Full Self Driving - Tesla first
No buttons - Tesla only
7 seater sedan - Tesla only
Bio Defense Weapon Mode - Tesla only
Quickest Sedan EVER - Tesla
Tesla Network - Tesla only
Tesla Energy - Tesla only

But . . . I interrupted . . . please continue.

Garyeop | 27. März 2017

The dream is that the M3 will have the style and natural ease of use of Apple yet the dependability of Sears. Yes boring, going out of business Sears. The few times I have had to purchase an appliance I have done it at Sears because I would not have to again for 20 years. As an imaginative yet somehow styleless man I look to Tesla to provide that...cool. Having fewer parts makes it less likely to fail so hopefully a cool antique one day. And I enjoy dreaming about that. In this post I am simply asking to use this time of absolutely not knowing what I buy buy, to enjoy the dream. Until Tesla gives me a set of choices, I choose to believe the M3 will be amazing.

Side note. I hate the name M3. Can we just call it Stiletto (knife, not heel)? Small, inexpensive, stylish, and very powerful due to its speed. Saying let's take a ride in my Stiletto sounds fun and dangerous. Saying let's take a ride in my M3 sounds...less.

Frank99 | 27. März 2017

Carl -
I think "doing it better" is newton.corey's point. Companies built computers before Apple built the Mac - but Apple took a different approach and did it BETTER. Companies built phones - even Smart phones - before Apple built the iPhone, but Apple took a different approach and did it BETTER. The remarkable thing isn't that the engineering is better, or the fundamental technology is better - it's that the user's find it to work BETTER for them, and they become rabid fans (See: http://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/car-br... ).
Companies built EV's before Tesla - but other than the EV1 the number of EVs that generated rabid fans was essentially zero. Tesla took the holistic view - if we want to sell millions of EVs, what do we have to do?
1. Make'em purty
2. Eliminate the "Golf Cart" image by making them fast and giving them a big battery
3. Eliminate the "city car" image by builiding an interstate charging system
They invested in the pieces that they had to to create the market - they're building the GF, they're doubling the SC network.
That's whats different from the way that Detroit has worked for the last 100 years, which has been a continuous race to the bottom by outsourcing EVERYTHING that it's possible to outsource, buying from the same suppliers that everyone else buys from, and trying as hard as possible to build the same thing as everyone else (New for 2017! Exciting tail light design!). Tesla isn't making something that isn't recognizable as a "car", but it is making it in a way that resonates with people.

topher | 27. März 2017

" (New for 2017! Exciting tail light design!). "

Someone get some ICE for that burn...

Thank you kindly.

Red Sage ca us | 27. März 2017

Frank99: +42! The Ultimate Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything about "What's the Difference?"

Carl Thompson | 27. März 2017

SamO:
"Autopilot - Tesla first"

Other companies have had adaptive cruise control systems even with steering before Tesla. Tesla does it better.
- https://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/Autonomous_cruise_control_system

"OTA Updates for full car OS - Tesla first"

LOL. I see how you sneakily changed this from "OTA Updates" to "OTA Updates for full car OS." Tesla was not the first with OTA updates. But they are the first with OTA updates for everything including the drive and control systems. GM says they absolutely don't do that because of the security implications. (Imagine if a hacker thought it would be funny to disable Teslas' brakes.)

"Superchargers - Tesla only"

Obviously Tesla is not the first to make "chargers" nor are they the first to create charging stations. But they are the first manufacturer to own their own network of charging stations as a way to drive sales and I think that's pretty innovative. But you could make an argument both ways.

"Destination Charging - Tesla only"

Of course it's not Tesla only. There are lots of places with charging stations for non-Teslas and many have been there since before Tesla superchargers existed.

"Full Self Driving - Tesla first"

Tesla is definitely not first because Tesla doesn't have it yet. No one does. From the reports I've read Google is farther along than anyone.

"No buttons - Tesla only"

Tesla's have buttons. Many buttons are on-screen buttons but there are physical buttons too. And of course Tesla isn't the first to have a screen with on-screen buttons.

"7 seater sedan - Tesla only"

Tesla doesn't have one of these (the Model S is a hatchback not a sedan). People have been putting kids in the hatchback area for decades. But I can't of any other companies that will actually sell you seats for the hatchback area so you might have one there. Not exactly the most exciting "innovation," though.

"Bio Defense Weapon Mode - Tesla only"

Obviously other Luxury cars have had equivalent HEPA air filters for decades. And of course when you're pulling air in from outside through the filter and into the cabin you're going to have positive air pressure. So this is technically no different than any other luxury car with good air filters. Not a technical innovation but perhaps a marketing one as the marketing _is_ novel.

"Quickest Sedan EVER - Tesla"

Not an innovation (and the S isn't a sedan). Before the Model S there was a previous quickest hatchback ever. So it's of course been done before.

"Tesla Network - Tesla only"

Obviously not innovative as Tesla Network doesn't exist yet and of course companies like Uber are already doing it.

"Tesla Energy - Tesla only"

Solar companies existed long before Tesla bought Solar City. And Tesla is not the first car company to make solar panels. Honda already did it and has been making solar panels for years.

None of the things you mention haven't been done before.

Carl

carlk | 27. März 2017

JayInJapan I equal Tesla to Job's Apple. Apple today is no longer visionary or risk taking as it was before anymore.

SamO | 27. März 2017

TL;DR

Carl Thompson | 27. März 2017

Frank99:
"I think 'doing it better' is newton.corey's point. Companies built computers before Apple built the Mac - but Apple took a different approach and did it BETTER. Companies built phones - even Smart phones - before Apple built the iPhone, but Apple took a different approach and did it BETTER."

That was actually _my_ point. Despite the believe that Apple invented everything the truth is everything they've done has been done before. Apple just does it _better_. (I myself am not an Apple fan though because of how restrictive they are about how you can use the items you own.)

Carl

Carl Thompson | 27. März 2017

SamO:
"TL;DR"

That's OK. You would have just made up some excuse for why all the companies that have done all of those things before don't count.

Carl

KP in NPT | 27. März 2017

Carl, going over your list - you say tesla doesn't really innovate - but your list contradicts that statement. Again, the definition:

in·no·vate

ˈinəˌvāt/Submit

verb

make changes in something established, especially by introducing new methods, ideas, or products.
"the company's failure to diversify and innovate competitively"

Each of the things you listed: if tesla wasn't the first, they certainly *innovated* existing methods.

And OMG seriously you are contending the Model S isn't a sedan because it has a lift gate? LOL! I will leave it to you to decide if it's a fastback or a hatch(lift)back sedan. But it is still a sedan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedan_(automobile)#Fastback_sedans

Rocky_H | 27. März 2017

@Carl, I concur.

regarding the sedan with liftback/hatchback, you just left out the most commonly known example that could have made your point really easily. Those 80's Crown Victoria station wagons had those same rear facing seats in the back. Sorted.

SamO | 27. März 2017

No Carl. I just proving a point to you about manners.

SamO | 27. März 2017

@Rocky_H,

Those cars aren't being built currently. So Tesla is the only producer. Right?

Exactly.

Frank99 | 27. März 2017

Carl sed; "That was actually _my_ point. "

I'm cool with that - we're all in agreement, and sniping at each other over minor definitional differences.

I really hope that some more Model 3 pictures and videos start getting posted before we all eat each other.

Carl Thompson | 27. März 2017

KP:
"Each of the things you listed: if tesla wasn't the first, they certainly *innovated* existing methods."

I guess if your definition of innovation is simply doing it _better_. There will always be differences in the way each company does something. That doesn't make every single one of them innovative. The word "innovate" implies doing things fundamentally differently and Tesla really isn't. What they do is just an excellent extension of what has come before.

"And OMG seriously you are contending the Model S isn't a sedan because it has a lift gate? LOL! I will leave it to you to decide if it's a fastback or a hatch(lift)back sedan. But it is still a sedan."

Well in that case a station wagon is also technically a sedan:

- https://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/Station_wagon

There were many examples of 7 seat station wagons that predate Tesla.

Carl

KP in NPT | 27. März 2017

LOL ok Carl.

akgolf | 27. März 2017

Lets include the traditional van while we're at it? I'm sure the Model S is way behind them.

Carl Thompson | 27. März 2017

@akgolf.

_KP_ is the one that pointed out that Wikipedia says the hatchback is a type of sedan. I merely pointed out that Wikipedia also says the station wagon is a type of sedan. Most people wouldn't consider either a sedan but she wanted to get technical... So don't blame me for that turn in the conversation.

Carl

mos6507 | 27. März 2017

Most technology is evolutionary. What makes it seem revolutionary is bringing that technology to the masses. There were cars before the Model T, but the Model T was the game-changer, for instance.

Badbot | 27. März 2017

hey frank,

"3. Eliminate the "city car" image by builiding an interstate charging system"
global not interstate.

;-) continue

Garyeop | 27. März 2017

Maybe a solar Johnny Apple Seed could scatter shelters around the world that had solar roofs and Tesla power walls. Even ask users to donate to the park?

Carl Thompson | 27. März 2017

mos6507:
"There were cars before the Model T, but the Model T was the game-changer, for instance."

What was revolutionary about the Model T was not the car itself. It was _how the car was made_. The car itself was not much different than other cars of the time.

Carl

Garyeop | 27. März 2017

Do you think any of us can see "it" coming? Did we realize what the IPod and Mp3s would do to music? Did you see today's internet when you first used Netscape? Before 2007, did you ever think you would pay more for a phone than your laptop?

This has that feeling. Hopefully Tesla won't go the way of gateway computers...but I do feel EV produced by someone will begin being norm.

Carl Thompson | 27. März 2017

@Garyeop

I hope you're right. But EVs are still a tough financial argument for many people while we still have relatively cheap gas. I did the math and someone in my area who is on the electric utility's standard rate plan would actually save money both short and long term by going with something like a Prius rather than an EV. We can't count on everyone buying an EV if it will be more expensive for them long term as well as up front. (Not all areas have electricity as expensive as where I live, though.)

Carl

Frank99 | 27. März 2017

Badbot -
I'll agree with you as soon as I can drive to Frankfurt.

/frank

Rocky_H | 28. März 2017

Regarding the term "sedan", it's confusing because that word has kind of a muddy dual meaning, depending on what aspect you're trying to categorize in.

Coupe or Sedan?
Well, you count the number of doors. The rear opening of the car is irrelevant.

Hatchback or Sedan?
Well, you look at whether the rear window goes up or not. The number of doors is irrelevant.

Carl Thompson | 28. März 2017

@Rocky_H

Yup. One way the Model S isn't a sedan but a hatchback (what KP argued against) the other way a station wagon _is_.

I personally consider the Model S to be a hatchback. But it's the best-looking most awesome hatchback ever.

Carl

mos6507 | 28. März 2017

"What was revolutionary about the Model T was not the car itself. It was _how the car was made_"

Exactly. Tesla is the same in the sense that it first surfed on commodity laptop batteries and will then rely on the gigafactory.