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New faster supercharger

New faster supercharger

Hi, I'm just wondering when the faster superchargers are supposed to come out my family wants a Model X but doesn't want to get until the new chargers come out.

xueju1121 | 02. April 2017

Don't hold your breath man. Tesla time is different than standard time.

rich.j | 02. April 2017

Good luck playing the waiting game.

IgnoranceBliss | 02. April 2017

Why is that the hold up? Does your family plan to do extensive long-distance travel and prefer to reduce the approx 20% extra travel time compared to an ICE down to perhaps 10%?

Most charging is done at home, unless you cannot provide that (ie apartment) and expect to use SCs to primarily charge your battery.

If that is your only issue, you may want to further educate yourself on the charging process.
While a faster SC will be a nice feature, by no means is it a critical element for pulling that "Go Tesla" trigger, at least from the perspective of owning a MX for almost a year.

lilbean | 02. April 2017

Do you not plan on charging at home?

patrick40363 | 02. April 2017

probably next week, or the week after, or............

inconel | 02. April 2017

I bet it will be released before end 2018 :)

tommyalexandersb | 02. April 2017

No one knows. I waited for fully autonomous hardware and people said I was stupid on the forum, and that the hardware was probably already in the car. Then when it came out, guess who was complaining and who was happy they waited. If it's really important to you then wait and keep your fingers crossed. I will say that I kind of like waiting to charge on long trips, it's a nice excuse to take a longer then usual break from sitting in the car for hours.

TeslaNinno | 03. April 2017

All Supercharges are not created equal... I charged at the Harrisburg PA charger and it was over 300 MPH and the Egg Harbor Twp was slightly over 100. Whats up with that?

inconel | 03. April 2017

Sounds like you were either sharing with the paired SC or your battery was not as depleted or was still cold.

Uncle Paul | 03. April 2017

Rumor is that the newer, slightly larger batteries being made at the Gigafactory in Nevada will have faster charging capabilities, but that the currently available Superchargers are not capable of much faster charging.

The newer batteries will be first put into the Model 3 production and power storage products. When excess capacity is available (perhaps by the end of the year) the Model S and X will be reconfigured to use the new cells.

Waiting is a tough call here, as nobody knows for sure when the faster charging might become available. The history of Supercharging has been for additional technology to be rolled out as soon as available, so fast charging might be first built into the vehicles, then later on the Supercharger network will be upgraded on by one.

Uncle Paul | 03. April 2017

Rumor is that the newer, slightly larger batteries being made at the Gigafactory in Nevada will have faster charging capabilities, but that the currently available Superchargers are not capable of much faster charging.

The newer batteries will be first put into the Model 3 production and power storage products. When excess capacity is available (perhaps by the end of the year) the Model S and X will be reconfigured to use the new cells.

Waiting is a tough call here, as nobody knows for sure when the faster charging might become available. The history of Supercharging has been for additional technology to be rolled out as soon as available, so fast charging might be first built into the vehicles, then later on the Supercharger network will be upgraded on by one.

TeslaTap.com | 03. April 2017

What is confusing is Elon hinted at a more powerful Supercharger. It may mean faster charging when more than one car is connected to the Supercharger. It may have zero effect if you're the only vehicle on the Supercharger pair. For example, today if two cars (85/90/100) are depleted and arrive near the same time, the first will get 90 kWh and the 2nd car would get 30 kWh until the first car starts to taper off (maybe 30 minutes). If that same Supercharger was 240 kWh, then both cars would get the full 120 kWh charging, and the time at the Supercharger for both cars would be reduced.

Now if Tesla made a 500 kWh Supercharger, a single car would not charge any faster than on a 120 kWh Supercharger today. The car(85/90/100) is limited to 120 kWh and a 60/75 is limited to 105 kWh. There is some speculation this limit might go up on the Model 3, but I give it a very little chance. The base Model 3 has a smaller battery, and it is very likely to have a maximum rate less than the 105 kWh of the Model S 60/75.

kaibryant67 | 03. April 2017

Yeah we have a Model X 90D right now but we want to trade it in for a MX 100D and we do charge at home but we are constantly doing trips back and forth to Miami from Port St. Lucie, Fl

johndoeeyed | 03. April 2017

@TeslaTap
You said "The base Model 3 has a smaller battery, and it is very likely to have a maximum rate less than the 105 kWh of the Model S 60/75."
On what basis did you conclude that 'it is very likely'?
The Model 3 will use the new 2170 cells and a new battery pack, whereas the S/X use the 18650 cells.
I have not been able to find any information on the charge rate of the 2170 cells but you appear to know.
What is the charge rate of the 2170 cells?
PS:
Did you mean 105kW rather than 105kWh, or something else?

Leli001 | 04. April 2017

I think @TT meant kW. I teach my students the big difference between kW (power) & kWh (energy). It is easy to get them confused because they have both become so interchangeable in our society.

The main problem that many overlook is not only the charge capability of the cells, rather the infrastructure availability. In other words, can the electric grid in the location of the sc support such varying high loads or even allowed by the utility, never mind the monthly cost in demand charges.

I think the solution that Tesla will incorporate to support such high charge rates will be the installation of power packs at the sc's. This way, the power packs can be charged at a constant 50kW (AC power per the spec sheet) rate day and night and then be used to directly charge the vehicles. This would also significantly reduce the amount of utility demand charges, if any.

Now, since the power packs are already DC powered, the only limiting factor for charging a vehicle is in the conductor itself (the size of the cables between the power pack and the vehicle). Each power pack has a 210kWh capacity and are designed for a 100% depth of discharge.

Don't know what the cable size is of the sc plugs but if they can support, for arguments sake, 500kW then a fully depleted 100D can be recharged in 12 minutes. Obviously, that last 20% would take longer than that but this was just an exercise in a solution that I believe Tesla will be going in.

johndoeeyed | 04. April 2017

@Leli001
Yes, TeslaTap probably meant kW.
Telsa is already installing batteries at the stations.
Elon has already written (at least very strongly implied in a tweet) that at least 350kW stations are coming.

The main point is that J.T., once again, made a post about something as if he knows what he is talking about. When asked to support his assertion, he will not do so. He does not know that 'it is very likely' at all, but chose to mislead the forum once again.

johndoeeyed | 04. April 2017

I meant TeslaTap in the above, not J.T.

Model_D | 04. April 2017

If I ran a car company and made a premium car then added an upscale economy car with an improved battery:

1. Put new battery that can handle high charge rate in economy car that can charge faster than premium car and software limit charge rate
2. Put new battery that can handle high charge rate in the premium car and SUV
3. One year later offer high charge rate to economy car owners for a fee

Silver2K | 04. April 2017

soon...

burdogg | 04. April 2017

Great thoughts Dwepilot :) If you were over on the Three forum, you would find them expecting to get it first in their model 3 and see anything wrong with the model 3 having this and not the model X/S.

Several months ago, i had to stop reading over there - everyone speculating and I just could not believe what people were expecting - basically a Model S, but smaller and cost half as much. They seem to expect the same range - close to same performance, same AP, Same AWD, better screens (HUD, etc...) for less. I could never make the math add up - from some of the comments over there, why would anyone ever buy a Model S - what to get a hatchback? Really, 30,000+ more just for a hatchback?

Ok, I digress from this op, but your thoughts Dwepilot make sense and just wanted to point out the model 3 insanity. With Elon's recent tweets, some are waking up and are upset too realizing they are not getting a model S at the price of a Model 3.

lilbean | 04. April 2017

My thoughts exactly, burdogg!!!

COrich | 05. April 2017

kaibryant67: They will always come out after you take delivery your X.

Seriously, if you need the X now, don't wait for some promise in the future. You could end up waiting for years. If you don't need one now, then you certainly can wait for as long as it takes. None of us really knows when "faster" SuperChargers will be deployed, or what "faster" even means.

A 100D will give you plenty of driving distance between charges. Taking a nice break before getting back on the road is a good idea anyway. I would think that after a few hours of sitting in a car, you would want a break.

dchuck | 05. April 2017

i am willing to bet that the Model 3 will continue to charge at the same rate as the current S/X battery pack. Even though the new Cells can take a higher rate of charge. Though the actual speed overall might be slightly quicker using a slightly higher charge rate between 80-100%

The big change will happen when the S/X start using the 2170 Cells at the end of the year. The change in the cells will force Tesla to change the structure of the pack so it would be logical that they would take that opportunity to rework the setup to allow higher charge rates. That gives them 9 months to come up with those changes in the battery packs and install whatever extra hardware at the Superchargers to support higher rates of charging.

2018

Model 3 = 120kw at the supercharger
Model S/X = 350 or more.

It creates more differentiation between the low end and high end. It also allows Tesla to add more capacity to the S/X battery packs without adding more idle time at Superchargers.

In 2019 or 2020 when they release Model Y or a refresh of model 3 they can bump the charge rate up on those cars because by then the 2170 will have been updated again and therefore will support higher density and faster charge rates in that smaller form factor.

johndoeeyed | 05. April 2017

@dchuck
It is in Tesla's best interest to have each car charge at it's maximum possible rate in order to utilise the supercharger stations to their maximum. It would cost Tesla to not do so.