House Republicans propose to scrap $7,500 electric vehicle credit:
Please call your senators and member of congress today to tell them you want to keep the tax credit. They need to hear from us NOW!
The governement has been doing whatever they want. I don't think they care about what we want.
It's gone! The text of the bill is now available: https://www.scribd.com/docu... Section 1102 repeals IRC Section 30D (https://www.irs.gov/busines... effective December 31, 2017.
As is typical of congress, nothing is evident from the bill. You have to go back to the tax code to read the bill.
Should boost Tesla Sales of X and S since it is good until the end of this year.
Now if they'll only do away with the petrol industry subsidies to make a level playing field for EVs and ICE vehicles.
More like call your senator and tell them to vote against the entire bill, which is a JOKE.
Kill two birds with one stone.
Oh, but fossil fuels were put in this earth by the all knowing, loving, powerful creator. We cannot mess with things like subsidies there, you’ll anger the divine entity that purportedly created the Big Bang.
Difficult to live by rules being crafted by a pool of amazingly corrupt, self-interested, corporate owned, narrow minded Republicans. However, momentum is a powerful force that not even these greedy, "fossilized" politicians can stop now. With or without their BS tax plan.
Oil is life blood for Russia and the Middle East, yet their subsidies stay in place. One of the reasons I wanted to go all electric was to stop supporting OPEC, cartels and their associated manipulations.
Seriously, what are you even on about, like, seriously?!
"...and their associated manipulations."
"Manipulations" like pushing us into wars to either gain or maintain control over overseas oil stores in remote corners of the world, endangering the lives of our men and women in uniform.
easy email generatorhttps://org.salsalabs.com/o/2711/p/dia/action4/common/public/?action_KEY...
I understand the animosity towards fossil fuel subsidies, completely reasonable.
That said why should Tesla owners get to use other people's tax dollars to buy themselves a car that cost more than household median income?
Somewhere around 70% of households do not make the $75k base price in a year.
Seems to me this is a price break for the rich and corporate welfare and you should be in favor of eliminating it, so you should call your Senators and have them level the feild by not just ending this but also ending fossil subsidies.
RedShift +1. Too bad some don't get it.
It is unfortunate that this is how they treat American manufacturing. I imagine Elon Musk had anticipated this possibility, but this seems unfair to change the rules mid-game (as they are trying to ramp up Model 3 production).
Elon's vigorous reaction to any criticism of Tesla seems less like paranoia.
Congress is doing its best to cede world leadership in electric transportation, along with anything to do with clean energy. Boo.
I kind of agree with should i. And it would shut up all the subsidy whining.
If you feel the tax credit favors the wealthy, then push for an income cap or vehicle price cap. If the credit is repealed, it will definitely affect the Model ≡, Leaf and Bolt buyers, which are all lower priced cars.
Model 3 and bolt are close to the same price as an entry level bmw/Mercedes/Audi. You are not being honest if you don't think this tax credit primarily helps wealthier ppl. I wouldn't mind if the credit stayed and saved me 7500, but I'm not going to lie about the situation and who the credit helps. Writing your democratic senators that already vote against everything Trump/reps propose won't change a thing, they are already voting against it.
Ah, because it benefits the rich we should be in favor of eliminating it.
What about the estate tax repeal then? Let's hear it, intelligent conservatives.
Those are just 2 cars that are priced lower than an S or X, not the cheapest cars that qualify. How about a Kia Soul EV? There are many people that would purchase a Bolt or a ≡ only if they can get the tax credit. Whether you think you have to be wealthy to purchase a $30,000 car is your own opinion, but I disagree. When you also consider that some will get additional state tax incentives and the lower cost of EV ownership, I feel that many people that are not wealthy would be helped very much by the credit enabling them to get an EV they might not otherwise be able to afford.
Perhaps what you meant to say was that this tax credit, primarily helps wealthier people., when only purchases of expensive Teslas by wealthier people are considered.
In addition, repealing the credit now, before Tesla is able to bring the M≡ to market in large numberst makes the credit more beneficial to wealthier people and denies the same benefit to the less wealthy.
The model 3 is not out in sufficient numbers to really consider yet.
Far as the income cap someone thru out that seems reasonable, but wouldn't most of you agree that a credit on buying. $120k+ high option S or X is a tax benefit to those most would call at least quite well off?
Yes I get that cost of living varies across the country, and that $90k a year doesn't buy a lot in LA, NYC, Chiraq, but for most of the country a family of 4 can be quite comfortable on $90k a year. Median is mid $50s
" but wouldn't most of you agree that a credit on buying. $120k+ high option S or X is a tax benefit to those most would call at least quite well off?"
Yes, but the credit is not restricted to the upper end of Teslas.
@pbendo let's be realistic on WHO is taking the credit, not some hypothetical. How are kias ev sales compared to Tesla?
Again I will take it if available when I buy an ev, but I don't think it is fair to force my neighbor to subsidize my purchase.
MQM: Who is it you want us to call again? That same crowd that is whipping votes to fire Mueller? The same crowd saying we need to investigate Clinton (that horse has left the barn) instead of Manafort/Gates/Papdopoulos?
This crowd has no interest but their wealthy donors and their own political futures. They stopped working for the world (at least the country) some time ago. What a swamp!
Ok redshift i will take a whack at it.
Ev credit ONLY benefits people who pay at least $7500 in taxes, rich or not.
Estate tax ONLY taxes some people not everyone. Of course it is also a double tax as a persons assets were already subject to income or cap gains tax.
My intent was to ask those people saying ev tax affects the rich only - ‘what then, do you have to say about the repeal of the estate tax, and why are you not speaking about it’.
I grew with the your post, otherwise.
Also, estate tax was meant to prevent the growth of family fiefdoms. Whatever value you ascribe to that notion.
If you have already bought a Tesla and took delivery do you still get the tax credit once it's gone?
Redshift i think you understand purpose of the estate tax.
Question is why is it the federal governments problem to intervene that way? To target taxes at small groups of people? A broader tax base is usually correlated with a more involved electorate.
Whether I agree with government reaching into the lives of people is immaterial. I’m asking only those who say EV tax rebate repeal affects the rich people.
There are lots of issues to debate. Like the estate tax, the hoarding of cash overseas by corporations, if we think through problems and attempt to solve them, we get better results. When we try to appeal to the base alone, bad results are all but guaranteed.
Reagan tried. Bush tried. Didn’t work. So we don’t learn. We just keep doing those things blindly.
I don't know how the total sales numbers breakdown for every car but there are many other cars that qualify for the full or partial credit. Here's a listhttps://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml
According to Edmunds, GM has had the most EV tax credit redemptions, not Tesla. Saying the cedit only hopes the wealthy is a "Tesla centric" viewpoint.
Another thing to consider - It is the success of the Roadster, S and X that have allowed Tesla to even consider producing a lower priced Model. The tax credit did affect sales of the more expensive models, maybe not for every purchaser, but it did for me. Without it, my first S would have been an 85 but instead I got a P85. The extra revenue Tesla received from my purchase helped them achieve their goal of mass amrket adoption of EV's. I am sure there were some to stretched the budget to get a 60 or even a 40, and without the credit they may have purchased another ICE car instead.
hopes = helps
amrket = market
Why does autocorrect change helps to hopes but leave amrket?
Muscle memory? ;-)
Are you on an Apple device? I have wondered about the bad autocorrect on my iPad for a long time now.
I use both Apple and Android - that particular post was Android, but I don't notice one being much better than the other when it comes to autocorrect
holy crap - the mother of all duplicate posts - that was on a Windows Laptop!
Didn’t Elon opine that Tesla would be on a better financial footing if all subsidies were removed? Or was that just for the carbon credits that he sells to GM for pennies on the dollar? He may have gotten his wish.
So, Apple, Google and Microsoft cannot get things right. :-)
Exactly! None of them are good enough to save me from myself.
Three points I would like to make.
I do not see Estate tax as double taxation. The case is different for each person however lots of estates include significant amounts of capital gains that have not been paid. For example Bill Gates or Elon Musk who's wealth I believe is almost all unrealized capital gains. The recipient of the wealth gets a stepped up basis so if Estate tax is not paid, tax is avoided. I believe an estate tax that has a rate similar to capital gains to be a fair rate, 20%. I do think the current 40% rate is very unfair.
The $7500 rebate subsidizes the lease rate of EV's. Folks that do not pay $7500 in taxes can still take advantage of the rebate by leasing. I acknowledge they may not get the same advantage as someone that gets the full $7500 rebate.
The $7500 rebate was not put in place to help folks. The rebate was put in place to acknowledge the reduced pollution the car was generating. Because of the difficulty in establishing a carbon tax, carbon tax is the fairest way to handle pollution costs, this work a round rebate was adopted. I think the rebate should be reviewed and fairly reflect the actual carbon reduction of each class of car. I suspect a Model S purchase reduces carbon more then a leaf or model 3 and should get a higher subsidy. I know the leaf or model 3 are more efficient then a model S but they replace different ICE cars and the Model S replaces a much higher carbon polluting car so the rebate should reflect this.
I am actually ok with the end of the ev credit if and Only if all petro incentives are removed. ( can you say $8/gallon gas)
To really be fair they can't stop at merely removing fossil fuel subsidies, the government would also have to add taxes to cover the costs of environmental and health damages from the acquisition and burning of fossil fuels.