Read & enjoy!
Does that mean that they could potentially start delivering 60Kw cars this year?
Nice...EPA-rated 208 miles, 95 MPGe...Impressive.
And TimJ: Not a chance.
Those are very impressive numbers. @TheAustin I agree, just wishful thinking on my part. I am getting the 60kw and found out that my friend that reserved after me with an 85kw got the email saying he could get his car this month. Kinda upsetting, but understandable.
I hope this means that they can begin production early in January. For revenue purposes, I do not expect production to begin in 2012.
Wow, that range would have met my requirements. A pleasant surprise.
However, based on where I live, I closed my eyes and clicked for 85kWh anyway, just based on my guesstimate that after a few years I'd only get 75% or so of the rated range as the battery ages.
So, while I have no regrets, I'll bet a lot of folks who opted for 60kWh will be pleased with these figures.
PS: Today is Day #1 of my 15-day delivery window.
EPA 208...nice number. I also considered the 85kW but since technology generally improves with time figured I may be able to upgrade after a few years to a better, cheaper battery anyway. We'll see but I have the supercharger option to allow flexibility.
For those folks with the 85kWh machines, are real-world performance ranges better/same/worse than EPA numbers?
Fantastic news, definitely stick with my 60 kWh choice.
mklcolvin, real world driving will get you lower range for sure. I don't get the advertised 30 mpg with my ICE in real -world, I barely make 20.
We've heard in other threads that average real-world was closer 342 Wh/mile while TM calculation were made with 283 Wh/mile. However what the EPA numbers reassures us on what the car is capable of doing in optimal conditions.
Real world in my experience with my 85KWh Sig performance depends on driving style. I can get better than the EPA rated 265 or worse than it - all depending on how I drive and the driving conditions. I think the 265 mile range is a good indicator for the 85KWh version.
I live in West Los Angeles.
Should I pickup my 60 Kwh at Fremont Factory next year??
Based on 208 rating.. I could supercharge at Harris Ranch and Tejon Ranch... then off to West Los Angeles.
Is the factory experience worth having to supercharge twice on the way to Los Angeles??
Woops also... if pickup is at factory do they deliver with a full charge?
My best so far in my P85, is 240 miles on a night drive, avarage speed of 70 MPH, windows up, no traffic, using the a/c half of the trip. In Los Angeles w/no traffic, most drivers are driving at an avarage speed of 80+ MPH, so going any slower forces me into the far right lane, or risk getting a ticket for going slower than the current flow of traffic (which can be dangerous as well).
So, make sure you factor in your typical driving habbits, before deciding what battery you choose.
Typical is LA driving only.
Once in a while... 1 time a year
LA to Santa Barbara
LA to San Diego
LA to Palm Springs
So I was just trying to figure out if Fremont to LA is even possible... there are 3 supercharging stations in between.
Picked up Sig 916 at the factory. They had it charged in range mode. Stopped at the Filroy SC just to check it out, less than 50 miles from Tesla. Was being serviced. Stopped at Harris Ranch for an enjoyable 45 minute lunch and charged up 180 miles. Stopped in Tejon Ranch to top off before going over the grape vine. Stayed for 20 minutes and charged it up to 170 miles, enough to make it home.
Oops meant Gilroy, not Filroy.
I think you really meant Fill-roy.
Sounds Like I could do it with 60khw but should stop at
Gilroy (Filroy or Elroy), Harris and Tejon then, if I decide on Factory delivery.
That's excellent, 11% more bang for the KWH than the 85. Now do I want supercharger access or no? Blah...
Man, it's 199 miles from my house in Echo Park LA to Harris Ranch.
That, my friends, is pushing it...
Ooh, didn't see that Tejon Ranch one, excellent.
Yup Tejon makes is all possible for folks with 60kwh, but is it a pain stopping every 150-160 miles?
I will probably only do the trip for factory delivery. Fremont-LosAngeles
I am happy with 208. Thought it was going to be closer to 200. Anyone know if it is known for sure at this point if they are just using fewer of the same high capacity cells as the 85KWh pack (with something to fill in the empty space to keep from altering the crash results)? Or did Tesla go with a full tray/similiar cell count as the 85KWh, but are just using a lower capacity cell type? If still not public information, can we glean anything from the better than expected MPGe and the weights of the different Panasonic cell types? I am hoping that there isn't a 'dead weight' filling up space and I believe that it is suppsed to be better to have more cells even though they would be lower capacity to help distribute the heat/load better across more cells to lengthen battery life.
Looks to me that the battery and vehicle is lighter.
Why? because the EPA has introduced more of acceleration and stopping into the rating since the 230 mile rating which was based on constant speed tests (I believe).
If the vehicle has less mass but the same drag coeff and frontal area then all else being equal the reduction in mass would cause the relative EPA rating to go up as a proportion of the max constant speed range.
However this could mean that it would be better around in stop and go traffic than on the highway where it would be close to P85.
I may be barking up the wrong tree on this.
Has the weight of the 60kwh been published yet?
That is awesome! I knew the 60 kWh battery was the best value. I can't wait to receive my chocolate brown fully loaded beauty!
virtualarry. The factory is definitely worth seeing.
Here's the plan, see: use the (S/C h/w installed) 60kWh model for 8 yrs., then replace with the biggest hottest battery (120kWh?) going at that time. The world is your oyster, and you'll forever feel clam, clue, and corrected!
How much capacity do you think will be available in 8 years for the s platform?
@virtualarry yes you should opt for factory pickup and tour!
I'm bummed to see all the 85kWh folks passing me in line because I'm concerned about what could happen to the $7,500 Federal tax credit in 2013. My reservation would have placed me in line for 2012 delivery were it not for the 60kWh battery.
Nonetheless, the EPA news on the 60kWh is really good and confirms that this is the best battery for me. I'm keeping my fingers crossed on the tax situation.
What's the impact of low temps on battery performance? The range utility on this site stops at 32 degrees. That's a balmy January day here in New England.
Since no 60s exist to deliver yet, I look on it as an efficiency push which could actually somewhat advance your date. There's way to little "visibility" of all the factors TM is juggling to say which way it would go.
@roccosima - Brian H would say NNIC. I bet the range degrades rapidly and TM doesn't want to advertise it. Just my guess however.
Tesla Model S curb weight spec is 4637.3lbs which I assume is the 85KWh. Does anyone know the curb for the 60KWh?
At some point someone asserted the models were matched using deadweights. Don't know if that's true, but might be easiest for handling and stability s/w, etc.
I am not sure if this is good new for Tesla. If you look at EPA ratings alone, its hard to justify the 85 battery. I would assume they have a larger margin on the 85. I cnat wait to see the 40, might come in over 160 if the weight drops enough.
I think they will start delivering the 60kw Model S in early 2013. Their latest email says the 60kw w/air suspension will enter production in Jan. It also says they are working up to 400/week I think. We will see. Have they even delivered 1000 cars yet?
Probably. My guesstimate is 1100-1200 based on VINs getting into customer hands. Using two shifts, at less than full bore, a tech said they were at 90/day a little while ago.
There are several threads discussing real-life numbers vs EPA.
On my 85kWh performance the real range is closer to 200 miles.
On the 60kWh version with the same average Wh/mi ratio (about 377Wh/mi for me) you'll get around 140 miles on a standard charge.
60 miles doesn't sound like much, but something to keep in mind, especially as the battery capacity degrades over time.
I think Tesla could make some "driving profile" based range estimator in the "go electric" -page. sergiyz gets 200 miles and someone just drove 400+ miles which shows that there is huge variation in RL ranges depending of where you drive and how.