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Icahn thinks Apple should buy Tesla.

Icahn thinks Apple should buy Tesla.

ausdma | 28. Oktober 2013

Ok. Not Icahn. But it's still a hoot.

Car t man | 28. Oktober 2013

Because Apple will likely only fall on its own, while Tesla will grow..

lolachampcar | 28. Oktober 2013

Why screw up a perfectly good car company by introducing too much attitude?

DallasTXModelS | 28. Oktober 2013

Oh, hell no!

ausdma | 28. Oktober 2013

Hey, it might improve the iPhone integration.

drp | 28. Oktober 2013

I got to tell you, I think this is really interesting. I did see Elon Musk at the Apple announcement last week and he was in the audience. No one in the media mentioned it but he was clearly sitting there.

AmpedRealtor | 28. Oktober 2013

Tesla still needs to prove itself before it becomes an attractive acquisition, but the two most likely suitors would be Apple and Google. While I am a die-hard Apple fan and a lifelong customer, I don't see Apple to be as good a fit as Google. Apple is very focused on what it wants to do, while Google is experimenting with a lot of different technologies that are not necessarily going to market anytime soon. Google's research into autonomous driving vehicles seems like a perfect fit with Tesla's goals for Gen 3. I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla ended up licensing some form of this technology. Musk hinted at future Chrome/Android integration but said nothing about iOS. I think the writing is on the wall.

ausdma | 28. Oktober 2013

Tesla would be a tough acquisition for anyone with its current valuation.

Carefree | 28. Oktober 2013

Please, Apple! Keep your hands off our Teslas! I don't like your products and I sure as hell don't like your attitude! :-)

shop | 28. Oktober 2013

I strongly suspect Tesla has a poison pill provision in their bylaws. I doubt Elon would let just anyone buy Tesla.

carolinagobo | 28. Oktober 2013

NOOOO please IOS 7 update will be terrible for my MS

GDH | 28. Oktober 2013

I thought Google was buying Tesla?

Kimscar | 28. Oktober 2013

I think Elon is way too smart to be acquired by Apple. I know some people like Apple but they hamstring what you can do on their closed system. Once they come out with a product looke the phone that was a great innovation they sit on their laurels while they get pased by Android.
So H..l no. :)

Newampster | 28. Oktober 2013

I am a total Tesla fan and love my MS, the company, the future and Elon's leadership. But the Apple purchase/merger could mean an extra billion. What would that do to the timeline of new products, SC's? The article clearly stated the Apple's markets are maturing and do not have the capacity for growth. Tesla's pioneer position in the revolutionary EV market would be a big plus for them. Interesting thought, but, I think Elon is doing just fine and the future is exciting.

redacted | 28. Oktober 2013

@Amped, google seems to kill off a lot of products, even popular ones (reader), or buy the company and do nothing (google voice).

carlk | 28. Oktober 2013

Unless if Tim Cooke gives up the CEO position and let Elon to run the whole company.

Mark K | 28. Oktober 2013

Apple would be smart to pursue Tesla, but Elon, wisely, won't go for it.

Money is not the key ingredient now, execution is. For the event horizon, a hungry, independent Tesla is the smarter play.

In the not so distant future the conversation may instead turn to "Who will Tesla buy?"

chrigel | 28. Oktober 2013

I wish Apple would get their hands on a few Tesla software items. I love my Tesla but Apple would make the browser, the media app and other functions so much better.

Nobody does it like Apple: except Samsung a few years later when they copy every little code from the greatest company in the world.

I still can't believe it that Tesla didn't pay for the iPod to be compatible with my car.

Car t man | 29. Oktober 2013

He could always secure a cheap loan from them if he has good relations with the management since Apple is loaded and isn't doing anything meaningful with its pile of cash. Maybe it could be a small investor. Markets would love it since they would assume Apple would start investing its cash and also diversifying a bit since at its core, Apple has peaked or is very close to it.

Miggy | 29. Oktober 2013

Tesla should buy either Jaguar or Mazda and no one should buy Tesla as they are one step ahead.

Car t man | 29. Oktober 2013

Why on earth buy Jaguar?? Tesla already has the design and in terms of tech, Jaguar has nothing to offer. And I can't quite tell which element of Mazda you feel would be useful? Some Mazdas certainly are very reliable but not in the range of cars Tesla makes. Maybe some quality control and approaches for the Gen III but might as well hire a QC guy from Mazda for that.

Brian H | 29. Oktober 2013

Icahn thinks Apple should buy its own stock to reduce the float, and raise the price back up. Nothing to do with TM.

mario.kadastik | 29. Oktober 2013

The good part would be that there is close to noone on the planet who can optimize the supply chain as good as Tim Cook. The last few years Apple huge success in sales numbers and margin is all the work of Tim Cook and his intelligent supply management. So from that perspective it would be excellent if Apple became a major holder of Tesla and would share the know how.

lolachampcar | 29. Oktober 2013

+1 Amp'd

Apple seems to polarize a conversation almost as well as politics. The software guys are on one side and everyone else is on the other :)

Car t man | 29. Oktober 2013

I mentioned exactly that a few times. Apple polarizes, essentially slicing potential Tesla's market in half at best.
As far as Tim Cook and supply chains, I assume it is mainly Foxconn's supply chain abilities that count but they also come at a known cost..
Not exactly a good thing to tie Tesla to by any means.

AmpedRealtor | 29. Oktober 2013

Apple could also invest some of its $150 B stockpile in Tesla without actually buying the whole company. A $1 B investment in Tesla by Apple would reflect less than 1% of Apple's cash pile. A billion dollars would be a game changer for Tesla and the world.

Captain_Zap | 29. Oktober 2013

@AR

Elon wants to see his vision through to the end. He won't risk anyone gaining enough shares to put that at risk. He doesn't want to be married to any one technology either or create obligations to do so. Some things are worth more than easy money.

Personally, I live in an Apple quarantine zone. Literally and figuratively. Their products just don't work for me.
The list of things that I do not like about them is quite long, but that is just between me and my dollars.

Bryan M. | 29. Oktober 2013

I think it would be interesting if you could have optionality with the interface. Since the car is built on order, it would be nice to have the option to build with an iOS or Android platform based on customer preference.

jbunn | 29. Oktober 2013

Lunacy. The only thing Apple and Tesla has in common is that they both have a touch screen. It makes just as much sense as saying McDonalds should buy Tesla because McDonalds has drive-thrus and Teslas go through drive-thrus.

Apple does not make stuff. Yes, it designs it, but its not a manufacturing company, instead letting other companies build many of their goods.

Tesla is heavy industry. Rather than be acquired, it's easier for Tesla just to poach the Apple talent it needs. Icahn has his own agenda regarding Apple stock value.

Alex K | 29. Oktober 2013

@Car t man | OCTOBER 29, 2013: As far as Tim Cook and supply chains, I assume it is mainly Foxconn's supply chain abilities that count but they also come at a known cost..

Do you think that Apple designs a product and then hands the design to Foxconn and says, "It's your problem to source and build it"? As you know, there is a lot that happens behind the scenes before a product goes into manufacturing. In that regard, Apple could provide great assistance in sourcing parts and setting up production facilities for Tesla.

jbunn | 29. Oktober 2013

Alex, Tesla has already proved that it can source parts and set up production facilities. Proof of that sits in my garage.

Reminds me of the story. Wife wants to go into business and asks her husband to join her. He laughs and says "When you reach 100K in sales, I'll help you." She says "When I reach 100K I won't need your help." (he lost that bet)

Car t man | 29. Oktober 2013

Alex

typically, OEMs really also do a lot of ODM (design), it just isn't
advertised. You can bet that Foxconn and such OEMs also design
products for partners and while the customer conveys preferences
about materials, components, etc, the actual supply chain management
is handled by the manufacturer.

One of the few stories I know of, that includes Apple actually chosing
particular materials, etc. is one of gorilla glass. If it is true and
not marketing balast which is common.

Just saying, Cook may be great at it. I honestly don't know because I really can't bring myself to research anything Apple related because I am put off
by it (but do understand how successful they are at marketing and cult
building) but I would attribute that to Foxconn.

DTsea | 29. Oktober 2013

Hope not. Apple doesnt MAKE anything in the US. Tesla built by FoxConn anyone?

Car t man | 29. Oktober 2013

Well actually, something like that was going on with Fisker. You do have several companies around the globe who also do outsourced manufacturing and assembly of cars for car makers. Fiskers were coming from Valmet automotive plant in Finland, like some MB B class cars, etc.

Karmann and some other companies also manufacture some cars, convertibles are sometimes produced by such outsourcing specialists, etc.

So it happens but is not nearly as prevalent as with electronics. You need to know that 70%-80% of global microwave ovens have been coming from a single Chinese manufacturer in past decade. Make no mistake, all the brands you know.

Even around 2000, 25% of global laptops shipped were produced by a single Taiwanese/Chinese contract manufacturer. Dell,s HPs,.. were rolling from their factories, etc. In automotive, it hasn't quite caught on yet and won't since China is too expensive now. Only localizing production will be taking place. You can expect Tesla to also start producing them in China but for Chinese market, not for US market..

Car t man | 29. Oktober 2013

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valmet_Automotive

MB A class not B.. Anyway, since I'm too sloppy with
info and if anyone is interested..

Gizmotoy | 29. Oktober 2013

DTsea: They do assemble some stuff in the US, and supposedly the entire Mac Pro line will be as such. It's a start. With electronics, though, there aren't any 3rd parties to make anything for you, so you're stuck buying the components you need from overseas. The best you can do is assemble them here.

Even the Model S has a high percentage of foreign parts, mostly due to the battery. There are Toyotas that could arguably be considered more "American" (80%+ of parts sourced in America, assembled in America) by that metric.

So there's some nuance here.

tranhv68 | 29. Oktober 2013

The OP is mistaken. Icahn wants a huge stock buy back, Andaan Ahmad at German investment bank Berenberg is the one who wrote the note to Apple. Still, I think Google and Tesla is a better fit.

Car t man | 29. Oktober 2013

Just don't believe the marketers its a patriotic choice. The costs are simply equalizing, so it makes more economic sense.

DTsea | 29. Oktober 2013

@gizmotoy, I am old enough (over 50) to remember not so long ago- the 1980s- when all the IC chips- memory, CPU- were made in American chipfabs. Why are they overseas? Because companies like Apple drove them. They could do assembly here- that is how engineers learn about production. Assembly is a big part of the cost of an Ipod.

Not 100%, to be sure- but SOME. They make most of their profit in this country, and have huge margins (>50% by some accounts)- they could afford to onshore some of the work.

Part of the reason I was ok with parting with $70k for my car is the high US content- both intellectual (design, engineering, intellectual property) and production.

Why does offshoring make sense? Economies of scale. Why do the overseas produceers have scale? Because of offshoring, which started initially as a low cost labor hunt. But in Japan, Taiwan, etc wages eventually rose to Western levels. It will in China, too. But by then the West will be impoverished.

renwo S alset | 29. Oktober 2013

My only comment, Apple products are made in China, Tesla products are made in Fremont, CA with US workers. Completely different attitude.

Car t man | 29. Oktober 2013

Hate to burst your bubbles, but most of Tesla's core tech isn't US. It is refreshing to see a US manufacturer actually using the best tech. Don't like
great things based on false assumptions. Enjoy the fact that you bought
the car from the smartest US manufacturer which now actually makes the best mass produced vehicle on the planet.

And offshoring is a trend that is nearly gone. Global markets are equalizing. China is now too expensive and Chinese workers have been seeing some 20% annual wage increases in past decade. And Chinese now buy more US cars than US buyers. Like they will buy more Teslas in time. And Teslas will certainly be built there for the local market..

DTsea | 29. Oktober 2013

thebcore tech in the tesla is software, motor, battery pack. the cells are from japan but the stuff that makes it a tesla is made BY Tesla.

Car t man | 30. Oktober 2013

The Motor and inverter are made by Tesla but aren't Tesla's knowledge. I don't want to go into of something being US or not being US and am trying to point out that it is best to stick to saying that you like that it is a domestic manufacturer, assembles locally, etc. Just accuracy. Over the long run, Tesla will have the highest level of credibility if its users and ambassadors list
non accurate attributes. In forums, media, or elsewhere. The company has so many strengths that it isn't necessary for it to use some of the not so correct advertising claims, that owners should claim everything in it is American, etc.. People forking over the kind of money as one does for a Tesla, want to first know two things:

1. Is it worth it.. (there is a resounding yes according to owners, JD Power, car magazines,..)

2. Facts about the car they will rely on and be asked about on every step (at least for a few years).

In today's world, claims of anything being US, European, Chinese.. are dead ends. Just take a look at the individuals and teams involved in developing Li ion batteries, to find Us, Japanese, European, Chinese and all other inventors, innovators, universities and international teams within universities, etc.

Also, how do you then rate a product. Is a Chevy made in Europe a European car? Or a Chrysler European because it is owned by FIAT? Is Tesla (the inventor) an American or Serbian or a Croat?

Facts about Tesla:
It uses the best of available technologies, it improves them and actually gets them to markets and to consumers in a nearly perfect package. It is
one of the few products which keeps drawing a smile on owner's faces long
after the purchase. According to studies, a new phone or gadget will keep
an average Joe interested and satisfied for a week, a new car for 2 weeks and a new apartment or house for 2 months. That is how we are programmed.

Now take a look at what Tesla owners see after a year. Gets better and better. That is what the accomplishment is. Tech in it has been available
to other manufacturers over a decade ago. They skipped on it. Tesla took it
and made the best car in the world with it. And drew a big F U in the sand
for the big auto and everyone else who claimed it isn't possible, feasible,.. I am writing this because I would like to see that owners
and would be owners could recognize the correct platform, because it is impressive enough. And they are only getting started..

OCTesla | 30. Oktober 2013

I've always had the totally unjustified sense that Apple would get into the car business. As Tesla has proven traditional automobile models are antiquated and ripe for disruption. Like it or not Apple does disruption better than anyone. I'd sure like to see them with a stake in Tesla rather than some other competing product.

dborn @nsw.au | 30. Oktober 2013

For accuracy only, the gearbox and motor are made in-house by Tesla. The inverter is made in Taiwan. To a Tesla design? Not sure.

jbunn | 30. Oktober 2013

Again, Google buying Tesla makes no sense either. Would one of the Google/Apple/Yahoo/Microsoft folks that think it makes sense please explain your reasoning?

And "because they make cool stuff, and Tesla makes cool stuff" is not an appropriate answer, no is "because they have a lot of money". Lots of companies make cool stuff, and lots of companies have cash on hand.

I'd like to hear a compelling case about why it makes sense for those companies to acquire a car company.

OCTesla | 30. Oktober 2013

I'm not sure we can call Tesla a car company in the traditional sense. They are a technology company that is creating totally innovative products. There certainly is no precedent for any big tech firm buying a car company, but tech companies buying other tech companies is a way of life - even those with different business approaches.

I don't think it's worth trying to prove or disprove whether any business alignment makes sense. Any argument would be total conjecture. I think anything could happen, and it's exciting to consider what could be coming next.

Brian H | 30. Oktober 2013

Elon seemed pretty sure there would be no offers at the current price. And you probably wouldn't get him in the deal. And what's TM worth without him?

redacted | 30. Oktober 2013

@DTsea, apple builds the mac pro in the US.

Also, in part the iPhone isn't built in the US because it's hard to find a place with a quarter million workers willing to live in dormitories.

jbunn | 30. Oktober 2013

Having toured the factory once before it opened and once when it was in full production, and considering what's parked in my garage, I can say it is first and foremost a car company.

Yes, they have cool technology and innovate but it's a car with a dealer network, service centers, and heavy manufacturing.

Do you consider the Nissan Leaf division to not be part of the Nissan car company?

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