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interesting video

interesting video

craigi | 24. Februar 2013

I think the reviewer did a great job of representing my experience and observations (P85). Range anxiety definitely needs addressing.

shop | 24. Februar 2013

Good video, BUT. The problem with these reviewers is that they really don't understand very much about the car. The reviewer was surprised at the slow charge rates a public charging station that was giving them when the readout clearly stated 199v. They really had no idea that different types of charging station result in sometimes vastly different charge rates. They kept calling Tesla to find out where the best charging station is. Hello? Plugshare? A little knowledge about charge rates?

Oh, and climate control at 73 is modest? Who the hell heats their car to 73? Wearing a jacket, no less.

And rule of thumb for long distance travel is to only drive at 2/3 of rated miles. So if you need to drive 150 miles (especially in cold weather), get 225 miles of range, not 200...

Finally, the video doesn't mention anything about how most people will use the car most of the time. And that is local driving around their town, where range will NEVER be an issue. Maybe they think that is self evident, but it isn't. Looking at these videos, you get the impression these reviewers don't realize that EV car owners have charging stations in their garages. I know when I talk to some of my friends, they ask questions about how many charge stations are in the local area, and I look at them funny, and say Dude, it doesn't matter, as I charge it full every night in my own garage, and then a lightbulb goes on...

riceuguy | 24. Februar 2013

I actually thought that while the reporter wasn't as informed as he could have been, he did a great job of listening to the Tesla reps and an even better job of knowing when to ask for help. He seemed to really get a sense for what the car does and doesn't do well, and was pretty fair about infrastructure shortcomings while still being very complimentary about the Tesla superchargers. Frankly it was pretty fair overall in my view. I liked it!

Tâm | 24. Februar 2013

It's just reality. You can find filling stations pretty much every where for ICE but very few Superchargers for us. Even then, it is hard to beat a few minutes of ICE filling versus many minutes of charging for us.

Others have proven that EV can work if you have lots of time to charge overnight or at work.

However, Tesla has proven that EV can work for long road trips with Superchargers.

We just hope that in future, as there are more, they would charge much faster, and Tesla range will be much longer.

Keep our fingers crossed :)

Runar | 24. Februar 2013

Tam, who does _not_ have lots of time to charge overnight? Everyone I know, usually sleep at least 6-7 hours every night..

IMHO, that is lots and lots of time to charge, _every_ night. :-D

"Others have proven that EV can work if you have lots of time to charge overnight or at work."

Kleist | 25. Februar 2013

@Tam - that is the idea to have more Super Chargers in the future. Who is paying for building the infrastructure? Folks buying a Model S now and patience. That is why Model S owners can carge for free forever.

ChristianG | 25. Februar 2013

@Runar, not all the trips are to work or home and the remaining 18 houres of the day are enough to drain the battery 2-3 times ;) So for looooong roadtrips wich you want to do fsat EVs are not the best choice...

Tesla Superchargers are pretty cool and I admire the effort Tesla puts in that infrastructure. Still they are only for Teslas and also still need some times. Wich means that they will be blocked for 30-90min. With more Model S out there standing in line a long time might become a problem too..

Even thou I'm with you that 99.9% of my driving will not have that problem and therefore it isn't very important. But testing is all about leaving the comfort zone, wich is why I think the video did a good job.

Brian H | 25. Februar 2013

For those who don't sleep overnight or anytime, the solution is obvious: 2 Model Ses! Drive one while charging the other. ;) You could leave one at work charging, drive to it, come home leaving the other car there, etc. No sleep needed!

Kleist | 25. Februar 2013

@ChristianG - "Still they are only for Teslas... ". How does a Leaf arrives at a super charger? On a flatbed truck? There is really no other car that can use them in a meaningful manner. I am sure once there are similar cars from other manufactures TM will find a way... but that is long down the road.

breading | 25. Februar 2013

Riceuguy,

I thought this was a pretty fair review as well. We are kidding ourselves if we think there will not be additional challenges to traveling long distances using a new and potentially disruptive technology.

This video demonstrates how the NYT review could have gone if Broder had used his head and perhaps gotten some better advice. Sure, they faced some challenges and real range anxiety. But, this video highlights what makes a Model S great (performance, quietness, technology, etc.) and it also underscores the vital importance of superchargers and how well they work in the end.

riceuguy | 25. Februar 2013

@breading, exactly! And he did a great job of pointing out that these long road trips are the exception not the norm, and in showing just how amazing the car is for the 90% of the time you drive and don't worry about the range! It was great to see a reporter (and 3 butchers) with a bona fide Tesla grin!

ChristianG | 25. Februar 2013

@Kleist

I think chances are high that Tesla will not allow others to charge there as they did theyr own thing with the plug and don't intend to sell the energy here.

One of the reason why many arn't buying EVs as it's not as easy to fill up. Not only it takes time, but also you have to search the charge stations. The supercharger-network is a big step in the right direction there. But as they didn't commit to any standards made before them, they are only making it better for Tesla cars...

Yes there are no other cars out yet with big enough batteries to profit from it. But also other companies are not encouraged to build one as for them the infrastructure didn't improve. So it might not help the 'bigger' picture.

But well Rome wasn't built in day and for here and now it was the right decition. By the time other long range EVs are on the street there are probably so many Model S out that they have to make their Excisting superchagers bigger anyway :)

jat | 25. Februar 2013

@Tam - so how did the first gas cars become popular, since there were no filling stations and there were plenty of places to feed horses wherever you went?

In comparison, *everywhere* you go there is electricity available (granted, only for slow charging), so we are much better off than the early adopters of gas cars.

If we didn't already have the infrastructure for gas-powered cars, nobody in their right mind would choose to build it just for the convenience of a 5-minute refueling given all the other issues, relative to EVs.

@Kleist - one of the advantages of making the Superchargers Tesla-only is that you aren't bound by constraints of other vehicles (for example, you don't need a programmable DC voltage to support other battery packs, such as CHAdeMO) and you don't have to worry about including billing support. So, I don't expect any non-Tesla EV to ever work with Superchargers, except perhaps someone that licenses Tesla technology and keeps things exactly the same.

Thumper | 25. Februar 2013

There is a recurring pattern to reporters extended test drives. They seek to add drama to the story by playing chicken with battery exhaustion. Some make it and some don't but it is contrived drama that could be avoided with better planning and knowledge.

JZ13 | 25. Februar 2013

Very fair review. I like the analogy to the first generation iPhone. That phone changed cell phones forever yet the first generation was far from perfect. The entire world copied Steve Jobs's vision. I expect the rest of the world will soon follow Elon Musk's vision

Pungoteague_Dave | 25. Februar 2013

JZ13, and how many first generation iPhones are still in use today, less than six years after it was introduced? Let's hope the cars being delivered today aren't so quickly worthless...

JZ13 | 25. Februar 2013

C'mon Pungo, not every analogy is perfect. :)

Benz | 25. Februar 2013

@ Pungoteague_Dave

"Let's hope the cars being delivered today aren't so quickly worthless..."

I really did not expect to read such a comment from someone who owns a Tesla Model S himself!!!

In Europe nobody can say that he/she owns a Tesla Model S yet.

Are you not super happy to be among the happy "few" who already do own a Tesla Model S?

Yes, all vehicles become less valuable as time goes by, and that will also happen with a Tesla Model S. Even after 40 years it will be valuable as a collectors item, as being the first EV which was designed by Tesla Motors themselves.

jkirkebo | 25. Februar 2013

Pungoteague_Dave:

I think the Model S is less of a first generation product than the original iPhone. Maybe more like the 3GS. And my 3,5 year old 3GS is still going strong, hoping to keep it another couple of years. As long as it's supported by new OS updates I see no problems looming.

Kleist | 25. Februar 2013

@ChristianG - the European version of the MS uses the recently agreed upon plug. That plug is SC capable, the signal translation in now in the car instead in an adapter outside. When TM started there was no good plug, even TM evolved from the Roadster plug to the MS plug. The good thing is that TM is moving ahead instead of waiting for everybody to agree on nothing. Maybe in 5 years we'll have a standard in the US and TM offers a conversion for the initial MS production.

jat@jaet.org - that is a possibility that TM keeps it only for TM vehicles, but that is a strategic business question only. Toyota and Mercedes are already licensed today, but have no suitable vehicles for SC.

Brian H | 25. Februar 2013

ChristianG;
TM was aware of other standards and tried to contribute. But the SAE put out their own, which, in Elon's words, "suck". Big, klunky, komplex konnektors, with low power. >:)

drp | 25. Februar 2013

@shop

I ask people "how far do you drive on a daily basis? What is the farthest you drive? How often does that happen? And then tell them that I just plug in at home practically for free and it fills the tank while I sleep. We pay $0.0868 per kw 24/7 and then they seem t "get it".

drp | 25. Februar 2013

Hopefully none of these "reviewers" decide to try neurosurgery with the the same level of preparation. At least read the manual. Next time rent a Cessna 150 and see how it goes!

Brian H | 25. Februar 2013

drp;
Heh. Much better chance of surviving a clueless MS drive.

Tiebreaker | 25. Februar 2013

Fact (statistics): 95% of the times, drivers drive less than 40 miles a day.

Corollary: 95% of the time, Tesla Model S owners drive less than 40 miles a day.

Conclusion: 95% of the time, Tesla Model S reviews concentrate on long distance 250+ miles driving.

WHAAAAAT?

Drama. Drama. Drama. Drama!

Tiebreaker | 25. Februar 2013

Anyway, it is an overall positive and happy review. Notice the $%@$##$ words?

Tiebreaker | 25. Februar 2013

Note to Tesla: Time to install a supercharger between Los Angeles and Las Vegas, seems that most California car reviewers have a gambling problem. :-P

Brian H | 25. Februar 2013

For Californians, LV, NV is perilously close to fly-over country. The high-risk adventure of a lifetime! ;)

cloroxbb | 25. Februar 2013

@drp
"plug in at home practically for free..."

How is $.08/kwh considered free?

Getting Amped Again | 25. Februar 2013

Tiebreaker | February 25, 2013 new

Fact (statistics): 95% of the times, drivers drive less than 40 miles a day.

Corollary: 95% of the time, Tesla Model S owners drive less than 40 miles a day.

Conclusion: 95% of the time, Tesla Model S reviews concentrate on long distance 250+ miles driving.

WHAAAAAT?

Drama. Drama. Drama. Drama!

I could have gone with +1 Tiebreaker, but your post was so spot-on that it deserved a repeat.

drp | 25. Februar 2013

cloroxbb

Relative to gas, do the math for 85kw

teslabruin | 25. Februar 2013

I so agree with Got Amped. Why do we keep judging the car on it's ability to perform long distance drives. I have had my car for 1500 miles, which included a few 100 mile trips and I have no complaints. I feel like the media has to find the "catch" with the product, and often have lost sight of it's amazing accomplishments. This video is favorable, but once again it's focus, its purpose is to expose it's "weakness".

Tiebreaker | 25. Februar 2013

@Got Amped - LOL!

cloroxbb | 26. Februar 2013

@drp
Ok good. I thought you actually meant it literally. :)

jeroens | 26. Februar 2013

This is also what bugs me about all those long charging times complaints...

"95% of the time, Tesla Model S owners drive less than 40 miles a day"

So for me e.g..
15,000 miles per year. equals about 68 tank-stops per year.
Taking about 4 minutes each, so spending about 5 hours and 40 minutes in (disgusting) gas stations.

Compared to maybe 2 longer distance (than my normal expected overnight charging) trips.
Spending 1 hour at a supercharger per trip might sound way too long (and obviously shorter is better in this case) but the way I look at it I'm spending way less time (3h40m) waiting for the car to be 'energized' with Electric than with Gas.

jk2014 | 26. Februar 2013

Jeroens +1. Didn't think of it this way. Elon should definately use this point...

sandman | 26. Februar 2013

@jeroens

I agree with your overall approach to time savings. I built a small spreadsheet a while back just to see the deltas between the two approaches. It is pretty cool to think of it that way. I personally don't plan on taking long trips with my S because I have an ICE for those.

Anyone ever get panhandled at gas stations by alchies looking for a handout while filling up their old ICE? Being able to avoid those encounters is a big plus especially if my fam is with me.

Pungoteague_Dave | 26. Februar 2013

I here you on the typical daily driving range being small, but it misses this car's point for many owners. Four out of five days, range is no issue for me. But the key to these cars isn't the everyday use. If that is the standard, buy a Leaf. The key for many owners is the 5th day (in my case), or for some, a dozen trips per year. It is easy to say "rent a car" for these exceptions, but that isn't the point. The game changing element of the Model S is three things: 1) power/luxury, 2) range, and 3) charging speed.

Because the game changing elements are how TM leads its public relations/marketing and media efforts, that is what gets tested and reviewed. Saying that this isn't how people use their cars every day is just dumb. No one drives any car at 9/10ths on a daily basis, but they do often buy the car for its ability to perform that last 1/10th every once in a while.

Pungoteague_Dave | 26. Februar 2013

Sorry "hear you"

Brian H | 26. Februar 2013

Yes, only 1-5% of trips may be "road trips", but Transport stats say that totals ~30% of the miles. It's "peak demand"; sort of like how generation capacity has to be built: you provide for expected maximums.

IOW, a world with built-out Supercharging is a much more interesting world (for Model S owners).