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NEMA 14-50 or wall connector?

NEMA 14-50 or wall connector?

Forgive my ignorance about electricity,

I just received the email about getting assigned a VIN. Right now I'm trying to plan an upgrade of the outlet in my garage. I'm having the electrician come over on next Saturday for an inspection. And I got some questions regarding to it.

I believe at this time I have a 110v 12a outlet. And I want to upgrade it to 240v outlet NEMA 14-50, but I would also like to make it be able to upgrade to a wall connector in the future. But I see that wall connector reaches its best performance on 80a or 100a circuit breaker.

My question is that if I have the electrician upgrade the outlet to 240v 80/100a (if thats possible) so that the outlet has the potential to be upgraded to wall connector, will my mobile charger be able to use that 240v 80/100a outlet until I get the wall connector some time in the future?

And what does all these have to do with dual charger?

Thank you

sluyter capital | 27. Mai 2015

If your car has a single charger then the most you can draw is 40 Amps. Forget 80 or 100 unless you have dual chargers. The car will not use it. I ran a 40 amp wire and put the NEMA 14-50 (same as my stove) outlet 2 feet away from the charge port on the car. It charges at 26.5 miles every hour. I program it to start charging at 7:05 p.m. which is 5 minutes after hydro drops the rates by half. Works like a charm.

BoxcarX | 27. Mai 2015

Bear in mind that you may not be able to just swap out the 12 amp with the 40 amp because you will need to also run that over thicker wire. If the builder had used 3/4" pipe or larger and there are no other wires in that conduit, you will be fine.

I have a HPWC just for convenience and a cleaner look. I don't have an 80 or 100 amp circuit and like sluytercapital said, it fills up your battery overnight.

Basem | 27. Mai 2015

http://youtu.be/dAoknHYPZ5M

This YouTube video is 30 amp dryer outlet but it shows the idea

The tesla uses a similar wiring but with 50 amp 6 gage 4 wires

tes-s | 27. Mai 2015

The HPWC can operate on a 50amp circuit, same as the NEMA 14-50.

You "could" run wire for a 100amp circuit, put in a 50amp breaker and a NEMA 14-50 outlet for now.

But if you are going to do all that, why not just spend the $750 on the HPWC now and be done with it? That way you have the cable always there in your garage, and your UMC always neatly stowed in the car.

tli18 | 27. Mai 2015

what difference does it make compared to NEMA 15-40 on 50amp breaker than HPWC on a 50amp circuit except for convenience and the nice looking?

Tintin | 27. Mai 2015

I own a MS85 single charger. I have NEMA 14-50.
I found skilled electrician on CL, he added a new circuit breaker, ran a 40 amp wire and put the NEMA 14-50 (similar to cooking range) outlet few feet away from the charge port on the car. It charges between 25 – 30 mph. I typically set it to charge at 8pm. Typically the rates are low during nights. Works perfect.
If you are able to charge overnight every night, I don’t think you’ll need to go for wall connector.

PhillyGal | 27. Mai 2015

As has been mentioned, if you don't have duel chargers to accept that high amount of juice, there isn't a need for it.

And unless you have those and need faster charging, having a 14-50 as your primary charger is plenty, so no need to bother upgrading to the HPWC.

Of course if you just like the cleaner look and the ability to keep your mobile charging cord in your car at all times, the HPWC will give you those features as well.

(We use 14-50 and honestly only charge once or twice a week for a few hours as needed. If you don't go on > 50 mile round trips without knowing the night before you are going, you don't really need to charge at faster rates anyway. All it takes is overnight to fill up, even if you are at 0 miles left on the charge, which will probably never happen.)

njelectric | 27. Mai 2015

To answer your question no difference. 50 amps is 50 amps. The HPWC is very convenient and neat. I have one but it is on a 100 amp line. If you do not have the service to handle that kind of amperage the 50 amp circuit is more than adequate for most people. I have a NEMA 14-50 outlet at my vacation place and it works great.

Tâm | 27. Mai 2015

@tli18

------------------
12/80/100 Amperes:

You can draw 80% of your source so that's why you mentioned above numbers.

Regular US household outlets are 15 Amperes. 80% of that is 12 Amperes.

If you upgrade to 240 Volts, 100 Amperes. 80% of that is 80 Amperes.

NEMA 14-50 is 240 Volts, 50 Amperes. 80% of that is 40 Amperes.

------------------

So should you pick NEMA 14-50 or HPWC?

That depends on what you want.

NEMA 14-50 pros:

Simpler and cheaper to install

NEMA 14-50 cons:

Slower than 100 Ampere source if you have dual charger, but you don't have dual charger then no faster charge for you.

You need Mobile Connector each time you charge. So some would choose to buy another one for $650 for convenience(1 at home, 1 included & kept in the car.)

HPWC pros:

Faster charge for your dual charger if the source is 100 Amperes.

You can still use it if your source is 50 Amperes (just single charging speed, no dual charging speed)

You don't have to look for your Mobile Connector each time you charge (HPWC's cable is attached waiting for you at home.)

HPWC cons:

It costs $750 more while the Mobile Connector is already included in the car.

More expensive to install

More complicated to install: Installer needs to read instructions to make sure it's set according to the source (100A or 50A.)

------------------

OK, so what if you want HPWC later but want NEMA 14-50 now?

Do as @tes-s.ct.us suggested above.

Made in CA | 27. Mai 2015

I, too, was pretty ignorant about electricity before getting the Model S. I have been reading up on it but still have a long way to go.

I decided to go with the HPWC and 40A charging (50A breaker). The HPWC can be configured (via internal dip switches) to provide either 40 or 80 amps depending on your circuit.

My reasoning for getting the HPWC is:

- I wanted to keep a Mobile Connector in the car at all times. The cost of the HPWC is only $100 more than a 2nd Mobile Connector Bundle. It is also nice to have the Mobile Connector as a backup in case something happens with HPWC.

- The HPWC is a more permanent installation. The Mobile Connector looks like it would unplug often given the angle of the plug and adapter. I am pretty sure it will get worse as the 14-50 wall plug wears over time. It also seems like the controller box on the Mobile Connector would get banged up a lot with daily use.

- The biggest reason is safety. The HWPC has no live plugs exposed and a cord hanging there.

I used a contractor who the Tesla charger people referred me to. He had done a bunch of HPWC installations and did an outstanding job with mine. It cost $995 (I am in Ventura County, CA).

I also had the dual chargers installed in the car but not for charging at home. I mainly want them to get the fastest charge when using 80A Destination Chargers.

Good luck!

Bikezion | 27. Mai 2015

Each charger in the car is good for 10kW. 240 volts x 40 amps = 9,600 watts or 9.6kW, perfect for one charger.

2 chargers allow 20kW. The HPWC on a 100 amp circuit will deliver up to 19.2kW.

So do you ever need 20kW?

Have the electrician run wire capable of 100 amps, and then if you want to upgrade just change the breaker and install the HPWC. (Assuming your house can handle the 100 amps)

By the way the 110v plug can stay, you can just add either of the other options.

KL | 27. Mai 2015

HPWC at $750 is way too sexy looking and convenient to miss (40A or 80A). I also like having my UMC in the car at all times. Good luck.

- K

jimlux | 27. Mai 2015

I went HPWC:
1) I have too much experience with the 14-50 type "stove plug" from using it with welders and such at work. That is a non-locking, spring blade type receptacle that is really designed to be mated/demated maybe 100 times in it's life. You replace your electric oven or dryer once every 10 years. Another Model S owner I know has gone through several cords, with the failure at the plug end (most likely from the mate demate cycles).
2) you could buy a second cord and leave it plugged in. For $100 more you get a longer cord and a nicer package.
3) I ran AWG6 50 amp branch circuit, but I did use large enough conduit so that should I ever decide to go bigger (and buy the second charger for the car), I can pull the bigger wires. I'm unlikely to need it though.

KWTESLA | 27. Mai 2015

tli18

In my opinion the HPWC is the only way to go. Read the forms a while you will read about all the fires , plug fires, burned breakers, toasted cords and wasted main panels .
Get serious buy the HPWC with your car it then carries the same warranty as your car not the 1 year.
I still own my original go-bag and cord and the original HPWC. The road ranger was out a few weeks back and upgraded my HPWC to the new larger buss and fuses all free of charge. He had come out because of a sensor problem in the handle .This is something you would be paying and electrician to do for you .

The HPWC is a much better everyday use way to charge your car than a NEMA 14/50 .

Owners will be talking about this in the forums for many more years. Pay the extra for the HPWC you will have peace of mind and a better performing charge for your car!

roger | 27. Mai 2015

The only possible problem with tes-s.ct.us suggestion is that the #2 copper conductor required for 100 A service may not fit in a NEMA 14-50 Outlet. Not sure about that, and it may depend on the outlet manufacturer. Now there is another "permissible" option that may work for your intentions. You can have the electrician run two #6 AWG sets of wires. One would be for your NEMA 14-50, and the other set would be wire nutted off for now. The two sets can be later combined for the 100 amp service. While this is "permissible" by code, its not best practice, but I have seen lots of electricians do this.

Also the outlet location may be down low and the HPWC looks best when mounted higher.

My advice... if you have the dual chargers, go for the HPWC now and be done with it. The electrician / permit will probably be more than the cost of the HPWC, so to have an electrician come out now for a NEMA 14-50 and then later for a HPWC makes no sense financially.

Roamer@AZ USA | 27. Mai 2015

If you plan to keep your Universal Mobile Charge Cord in your car then it's a simple decision.

The UMC costs $650 and then the cost for an outlet.

The High Power Wall Connector costs $750 and hard wires direct so no outlet is needed.

I would run the highest amp your circuit panel can handle up the the full 100 amp. Then set the HPWC to whatever wire and breaker size you were able to install.

If you have a single charger the max your car will use is 40 amps even if you have a HPWC installed capable of delivering higher amps. So to use higher than 40 amps you need dual chargers.

If you don't plan to keep a UMC in the car then just install a NEMA 14-50 and go with a single chargers as the lowest cost simple way.

For me installing the HPWC at $750 is a smokin deal. Many of us paid much more for them in 2013.

What will do a lot will also do a little. What can only do a little will never do a lot.

terminator9 | 30. August 2018

I know this is a 3 year old post but comes on google pretty high. Why is there a need to unplug/plug the mobile connector once it is plugged into the NEMA 14-50 at home? I can't take it and plug it in someone's home 110 outlet and I will gain 3 miles an hour which is not practical. Although, you can plug into their dryer's outlet or RV outlet if they have it, it won't apply to 98% of the people. My work and on the road already have the chargers and the mobile charger is not needed. I think this fear that the mobile charger will wear out with constant unplugging is not valid for 90% of people out there these days.

Freckles | 30. August 2018

I ran 100amps from my main panel to a pony (sub) panel in my garage. My garage is detached so this was the most expensive part of the entire job. In my garage I then ran 60amp line to the HPWC which gives me 48amps to the car or about 58km (42miles) per hour of charge. I then also ran a 50amp line to a NIMA 14/50 outlet that I have just in case the HPWC goes bad one day. My electrician did the NIMA line for cost as he was already there. Took him lass then 15 minutes to make the connections.

You could do the same thing in reverse NIMA now but ready for the HPWC.

Good luck

Anthony J. Parisio | 30. August 2018

ashish.gururani ,
You are absolutely correct. However I do like options. So I do always take the UMC with me with me. I did put a HPWC at home because I am to lazy to pack and unpack the UMC.

TexByTheSea | 30. August 2018

My need to unplug it is my 14-50 is outdoors (not in my garage) and I am afraid someone would simply unplug my connector and steal it. I posted another topic asking if anyone had figured out a way to "lock" their cord to the outlet.

SUN 2 DRV | 31. August 2018

True enough that Superchargers and Public J-1772 stations come with their own cable attached.

However 14-50 based RV parks do provide a reasonable option.
And even 120V overnight can give 40 extra miles that may be useful or even essential. Especially in cold weather to keep things warm enough.
As others have suggested the best solution is to install a hardwired Wall Connector (on any size circuit) and then just keep the Mobile Connector in the car as a backup plan.

twcekud | 22. September 2018

All NEMA 14-50 fits Tesla cables?

Bill_75D | 22. September 2018

Yes

twcekud | 22. September 2018

Same NEMA 14-50 for my dryer?

trevor58 | 22. September 2018

Most modern dryers are NEMA 14-30. Older ones are 10-30

Bill_75D | 22. September 2018

14-50 is commonly the outlet for an electric range. Tesla sells both 10-30 and 14-30 adapters. Buy the one you need, twcekud.

twcekud | 22. September 2018

I am expecting delivery in 30 - 45 days for my M3 would a 14-50 fit?

CEYA GAS | 22. September 2018

The NEMA 14-50 is the outlet. Tesla mobile connectors are designed to plug into a NEMA 14-50.

SUN 2 DRV | 22. September 2018

A Model 3 would charge at 32 amps from a 14-50.

Using a Wall Connector on that same 50 amp circuit would let you charge at 40 amps.

And if you installed a 60 amp circuit with a Wall Connector you could charge at 48 amps.

twcekud | 22. September 2018

Thanks, guys!

tes-s | 22. September 2018

If you are not sure of the outlet type you have, take a picture of it (with nothing plugged in), or compare it to the ones in this diagram.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#/media/File:NEMA_simplified...

ron | 23. Oktober 2018

Thanks to everyone on this thread and esp. SUN 2 DRV for your very clear post on 9/22/18.

I finally ordered my M3 yesterday, Monday 10/22/18, and was told I'd get delivery on 12/18/18. I was then contacted by an Inside Delivery Advisor who said that my car will actually be delivered this week. My pickup date is Saturday 10/27.

So now I'm scrambling to get an electrician to come out and replace an existing NEMA L5-15 outlet with a 14-50 and pull wire for 60A service. I understand this will give me 32 amps to the car. Down the road, when I get a Wall Connector, the circuit will be sufficient to max out my charging at 48 amps.

I'd like to run 100A to the garage and install a sub panel (see MAIORINO post on 8/30/18) so I could split it to a Wall Connector and the NEMA 14-50 outlet just in case we get a second Tesla, but I doubt if the conduit is big enough to handle the heavier gauge wire.

akikiki | 23. Oktober 2018

That's nice. You know this posting is more appropriate and useful to other M3 owners over on the M3 part of the forum?

krbabu | 17. Januar 2019

This forum may want to know that, recently, Tesla made available a Tesla wall connector with a NEMA 14-50 plug, capable of charging at 40A. https://electrek.co/2019/01/15/tesla-wall-connector-nema-14-50-plug/

ashok.chandrasekhar | 24. September 2019

I got a $500 quote to install the HPWC in Santa Clara , CA. From reading this chain it seems like a good deal. Do you agree that’s a reasonable quote for installing the HPWC for model 3? Thanks!

Yodrak. | 24. September 2019

"Do you agree that’s a reasonable quote for installing the HPWC"

Depends on where the service panel is and where the HPWC will be.

Whether the installation is for a Model 3, an S, or an X is not relevant.

cslaurie | 27. September 2019

I did the job yesterday. I had a 50 amp breaker in my panel going to AWG 6 cable that had been used for a 220v Jacuzzi. I had a handy man pull the wire back into the garage and installed an aweking nema 14/50 industrial grade outlet on the inside wall of the garage. ($15.00 Amazon). Drilled a 2" hole thru the wall and passed thru the Tesla charger head. Works like a charm, on the car it shows charging at 40 amps and 240 volts. It shows charging at 36 mph. I used the old box and cut pipe to fit up the wall into rafters. The handy man charged me $250 labor and worth every penny crawling thru the unfinished attic.So $265 and Bob's your uncle. I have a conduit box coming for the outside to store the cable and charge end. $39.00.
By the way, the tesla will only allow 40amps input if using the supplied charger. It charges to 225 miles in six hours. I just set the timer to start at 8 pm and it is done by 2 am.

cslaurie | 27. September 2019

I did the job yesterday. I had a 50 amp breaker in my panel going to AWG 6 cable that had been used for a 220v Jacuzzi. I had a handy man pull the wire back into the garage and installed an aweking nema 14/50 industrial grade outlet on the inside wall of the garage. ($15.00 Amazon). Drilled a 2" hole thru the wall and passed thru the Tesla charger head. Works like a charm, on the car it shows charging at 40 amps and 240 volts. It shows charging at 36 mph. I used the old box and cut pipe to fit up the wall into rafters. The handy man charged me $250 labor and worth every penny crawling thru the unfinished attic.So $265 and Bob's your uncle. I have a conduit box coming for the outside to store the cable and charge end. $39.00.
By the way, the tesla will only allow 40amps input if using the supplied charger. It charges to 225 miles in six hours. I just set the timer to start at 8 pm and it is done by 2 am.