P85 or P85+

P85 or P85+

Can anyone tell me the difference in the benefits of a P85+ over a P85, other then it's a difference suspension. What are the benefits of a PLUS?

Don in Vegas considering converting my sig P85 to a P85+, a $15,000 upgrade.

Benz | 15. Oktober 2013

Could it be that a P85+ is a little bit faster than a P85?

Would you really need a P85+?

Ask yourself what you could do with $15,000?

You could save that money for future repair bills or your energy bill (maybe both)?

LK | 15. Oktober 2013

The suspension is firmer on the p85+. I personally like the more compliant ride of the p85. It is still quick but the airbags make driving really comfortable. Have test driven any models 's yet?

jpwe10 | 15. Oktober 2013

P85 feels a little bit "floaty" (as in not planted) during hard acceleration and cornering.
P85+ feels like you have the hand of God accelerating you with magnets on the wheels that keep you glued to the ground while cornering. If you have the money and are used to high-performance cars definitely go +. If you dont need super-car performance, but are content with almost-supercar performnce, the P85 is definitely sufficient.

pimp-boy | 15. Oktober 2013

@bnwdon: So the service center quoted you $15 to convert your P85 to a FULL P85+? or is it a retrofit?

I'm trying to get pricing here locally in the bay area and no one seems to know or will tell.

skymaster | 15. Oktober 2013

The P85+ has exceptional acceleration and cornering. By the way, I have a P85+ for sale in Denver, CO with less than 2K miles. I posted it a few days ago over at TMC website.

mrrjm | 15. Oktober 2013

I have to ask. Why are you selling it?

Gizmotoy | 15. Oktober 2013

@jpwe10: As a note, I didn't feel the 85 with the coil suspension felt anywhere near as disconnected (floaty) as the 85 w/ air. Indeed based on my somewhat limited drive time, I suspect the air is the main problem, and the + does a great job of correcting its faults. If I were to define a "floatiness scale" it'd go something like P85 w/ air > P85 w/ coil > P85+. This was the main reason I decided for forego air on my P85.

You're sacrificing adjustable ride height and smoothness in doing so, though, so probably depends what your priorities are.

I'd certainly not pay $15k to retrofit. You'd probably be better off following lolachampcar's exploits, lowering the car a bit further seems relatively easy and replacing the rear bushings/control arms with the P+ units. Sounds like he may also be in the process of converting his P+'s air suspension back to coil, so that'll be interesting to watch.

leon.gelernter | 15. Oktober 2013

P85+ is the way to go if you had any kind of sportscar before. P85 is very floaty...Typically american. Still a great car but I can't deal since I have been driving ONLY performance cars for the last 11 years.

Can't wait for my P85+...and february is still sooo far.

lolachampcar | 15. Oktober 2013

Nope on the air to coil conversion. I just inherited some air parts and want to do some coil development so I am converting the air to coil. Doing this also makes sure the travel range is correct for the ride height I am targeting. Put differently, I've not put both coil and air dampers on a shock dyno to make sure the valving per stroke position is exactly the same so it is safer to do my initial work using air dampers.

WRT the differences, there are a good number. Most of the reduction in the disconnected feel of the rear comes from changing the inner lower rear a-arm bushings. Tesla changed all the bushings in the a-arm, torque links, toe links and upper camber arms but my experimentation tells me the lower a-arm bushings are the culprit. The P+ also has (very) slightly stiffer damper valving and MUCH stiffer anti-roll bars. The much stiffer roll resistance dramatically increases head snatch when you hit something like a pot hole or a speed bump with one wheel first. I find it unpleasant and really unnecessary given my P85 was just fine on roll resistance. The remainder of the difference is staggered wheel/tire sizes with slightly wider in the back to make up for the greater oversteer tendency of the stiffer rear bushings.

Is there a big difference? Yes. Is it worth it? It depends on your taste; I sold my P85 to get the full factory P+ but then I'm a bit of a nut. If you come from M5s and the like, it is a no brainer.

Gizmotoy | 15. Oktober 2013

@lolachampcar: Thanks for the clarification. Too bad I can't edit the post :-/

Thomas N. | 15. Oktober 2013

I have a P85 and I love it. I don't go up into mountains and scream around corners but I do a helluva lot of 0-60 runs. In fact, I've become incredibly adroit at timing lights so that I end up first in line at every red light. Then a quick 0 to whatever the speed limit is and I'm a happy man.

I love the compliance of the ride. The air is great and the 19s are quiet and smooth. I don't want a car that feels like it runs on rails or is "connected" to the pavement. I can see why somebody would love the real-life equivalent of a kid's slot-car toy but it's not for me.

On top of that I get to save $10K, don't have to replace expensive tires every 8000 miles, don't have to hear the tire noise in the cabin and perhaps most importantly to me, don't have to walk out to my beautiful car each morning and see these massive 21" tires and wheels marring the look of my vehicle.

It's totally subjective, however, and that's why you have Escalades riding around on 22's with spinning hubcaps.

P85 for me.

lolachampcar | 15. Oktober 2013

+1 Thomas

frekri | 15. Oktober 2013

P85 has aluminium pedals while the standard has rubber pedals.

skymaster | 15. Oktober 2013

@mrrjm- I have two Model S's. I decided to sell one and wait to buy a Model X. I also will buy Model E's for my daughters.

TeslaOwnerBlog | 16. Oktober 2013

Roadtest difference between standard and performance suspensions.

bnwdon | 16. Oktober 2013

I want to thank everyone for their valuable input. I'm pretty sure I decided to keep my Sig as original as possible and take the $15,000 and use it for my new X. I have never had so much input from other car clubs I have been in. Tesla owners are the best!

rchiang | 16. Oktober 2013

I would go with the + because that + could save your life someday when you most need it.

carlk | 16. Oktober 2013

I've been driving sports/sporty cars almost entire my adult life so my taste may be different than yours. The is no way that I would go for the P without the +. To me handling is way more important than straight line acceleration. You can use the acceleration once in a while but the handling is with you all the time while you're driving.

Dramsey | 16. Oktober 2013

The only difference is that the "Plus" has the $6,500 suspension/wheel/tire package.

I drove both the P85+ and the P85 with air suspension and went with the latter. It's true that the "+" does an amazing job of shepherding 4,700 pounds of heavy metal around corners, but:

1. I already have other, sports-oriented vehicles for this, and

2. Since I live in Reno, I'd have needed a new set of wheels and tires for winter, and I already have that for two other cars, and it's a pain.

I'm quite happy with the P85 and air suspension. It's definitely the softest ride of any car I have, but having some experience with American sedans in the 70s, I wouldn't describe it as "floaty"!

jkirkebo | 16. Oktober 2013

I would go either P85+ or S85 w/19". Why order the extra power of the P85 and not have tires and suspension to put it to good use? Better save that money and get the S85 then IMHO, if one doesn't want the plus package.

jcaspar1 | 16. Oktober 2013

I ordered the P without the +. Didn't want to spent the extra 13,000$ it would cost me to get the + (air, wheels and the +). I probably would have gotten it if it wasn't tied to the air suspension and 21" wheels. I am going to see what the aftermarket can come up with if the standard S suspension is lacking. Could buy a lot of suspension upgrades for 13K$

Suturecabre | 16. Oktober 2013

It would be interesting to see the geographic breakdown of who went with P85 vs. P85+.....I've only seen 19" tires on Teslas so far in the Northeast. In fact, the KOP Tesla store told me I was one of very few who opted for 21" wheels. For those who don't know, Northeast roads are horrible, with salt, potholes, bumps, and snow in the winter that cause all sorts of issues for low-profile tires.

I had the P85+ for the weekend and it was one bone-jarring, teeth-chattering ride up here....Great handling, sure, but so did the P85....Considering the amount of time I spend in traffic, and the 100 miles a day commute, I opted for the softer ride/cheaper tires, with most of the handling.

Gizmotoy | 17. Oktober 2013

@jcaspar1: Same thing in my case. I'm going to change to sticky tires on the 19"s ASAP and decide where to go from there. Keep an eye on lolachampcar's testing over on TMC.

GVKent | 12. November 2014

Regarding 19" vs. 21" tires. 19" is already low profile by historical standards. The 21"
for my taste will have a more bumpy, less comfortable ride, it will cost more to re-
place and will wear out faster than 19". All you gain with 21" is that you can go a little faster making 90 degree turns into a side street and shave off a few seconds on a race track. So take your pick: comfort vs. more money and bumps for pretending to be a race car driver. :-)