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Tesla Model III Official 250 Mile Range Minimum Plea

Tesla Model III Official 250 Mile Range Minimum Plea

Dear Elon and Tesla team. This is a plea from a future owner requesting a 250 mile range minimum for the entry level Model III. That number seems arbitrary but it's comforting knowing that we can get to any Supercharger in the United States. Tesla owners and future Model III owners please reply with your reason for requesting a 250 mile range minimum entry level Model III. Let's make this the official petition. Thank you Tesla for leading the way.

DTsea | 12. Januar 2016

you only need 200 for that.

JuJoo | 12. Januar 2016

Like DTsea said, 200 mile range is enough to be able to reach most, if not all, Superchargers.

As much as more range is wanted, the chemistry improvement and battery price reduction isn't exactly where it should be to be able to provide a better minimum battery range, hence the premium price for more range.

In the close future, we should be seeing better range at a better price as things improve. Just be mindful that this is going to be a first roll out version of the Model ≡. The next installments of this model is just going to get better and better.

kseehafer | 12. Januar 2016

250 would be great, but then you might be getting close to the point where the Model S sales would be cannibalized by Model 3 sales. But then, if we all had the money, we'd be buying a Model S, right?

FlatSix911 | 12. Januar 2016

Why would they exceed the Model S 70D?

JeffreyR | 12. Januar 2016

The more juice the more juice. But as @JuJoo points out that's why there will be an option to upgrade. Once the GF is in full swing, then Tesla will be able to make a different battery pack.

vperl | 13. Januar 2016

Petition, that is what losers do.

Happy petitioning

danielpf | 13. Januar 2016

It might be a better optimisation for Model III to increase the number of superchargers so that the maximum distance is everywhere around 100-150 miles, than to increase the capacity of a large number of cars, increasing their cost and therefore the sale numbers.

Suppose the number of Tesla cars (III+X+S) scales with the supercharger number, the average distance between superchargers decreases as the square root of the relative number increase, 4 times more cars than now mean supercharger distances halved.
Thus the distance problem should rapidly disappear.

The only difference between a low capacity and high capacity car will then be the need to charge more or less frequently. Also large capacity car charge more quickly. Those mostly using their car for commuting and rarely for long distance will prefer Model III, and those making frequent long distances trips will be inclined to choose Model S,X.

Rocky_H | 13. Januar 2016

@chrispga, I don't get the logic of your request. You want at least 250 miles, so you want the minimum for the vehicle to be what you want? Why does the minimum spec need to meet your need? If you need more range, buy the battery size that has the amount of range you need.

buddyroe | 13. Januar 2016

I also think the range needs to be 250 miles or more if they want to sell 250,000 of them. People's biggest worry when traveling in a Tesla is range.

And it is not unwarranted. I've seen like 5 Teslas in the wild - one of which was in Virginia on a flatbed tow truck at a travel center. When I asked the tow truck driver if he knew what happened to the car, he said "they ran out of battery" (exact quote).

Also, I diligently read every supercharger post on TMC because I am very interested in the supercharger build out. If you go read those threads, you will see just how real this problem is. Many people talk about how they planned their trip out and then it rains or there is more wind than expected and they barely (like 5 miles left) make it to a supercharger.

Normal, everyday people (unlike us haha) simply aren't going to tolerate that. I know it will get much better as more and more superchargers are built, but still, 200 miles is Nissan, Ford, and Chevrolet range. Tesla can do better.

I think what you will see is the base Model 3 having 200 miles of range, and an upgrade available that will allow around 270 miles of range. 80% will opt for the upgrade. But, Tesla will keep their promise of a $35k car. Besides, some people don't need a car to travel in. They just need to be able to be comfortable in their local driving - which 200 miles is perfect.

So, as I typed, I re-thought my position and I think 200 miles for the base model is fine. But OFFER a higher range option. That will be fine too.

Earl and Nagin ... | 13. Januar 2016

What does "250 miles" mean? Are you talking 85 mph in 120 F outside temperatures with A/C blasting to keep the car a cool 70 F for the 5 passengers and their 250 lbs of luggage? Or are you talking about the EPA highway driving test 250 miles or some other driving profile?
After that, it comes down to what Tesla sees as the market. There is clearly a price that anyone is willing to pay for a particular range. That price varies from person to person, whether that is 50 miles, 100 miles, 200 miles, or more varies. Tesla is targeting the range they can do for $35K to satisfy enough of the population of the world to keep their Model III factory busy.
It won't be what the OP and his few thousand petition signers say they want. It will be what Tesla believes millions of people will really be willing to pay $35K or more for.

jordanrichard | 13. Januar 2016

buddyroe, unless you know all the specifics to the story behind that flat bedded MS, you can't cite it as an example of a range issue. Also every week Tesla is opening new charging sites. So to compare the present amount of supercharger coverage to the demands in the future is flat out wrong.

Let's say the Model 3 comes out with the same range as the S60 (208). There are S60 owners today who have made trips from New England to FL, with no issues. Yes there are other parts of the country where there are issues, but that will change.

I am in CT and when I took delivery in Mar of 2014, there were only 3 supercharger locations in ALL of New England, today there are 14. I am also about 190 miles from the Hamilton NJ charger, but there a couple of superchargers in between, so a Model 3 would have no problem whatsoever.

Are there some location issues, sure. However you can't judge the charger network as if it were a finished project.

To the OP. Don't worry about the Model 3's range. Tesla has said it will have at least 200 miles. Look at the supercharger map on Tesla's site, click on 2016 and you will see that you will be fine in a Model 3. Besides, the Model 3 won't hit the streets until late 2017, so just imagine what the supercharger coverage will be like then.

bricha55 | 13. Januar 2016

The Chevy Bolt is expected to have a 200 mile range, and a starting cost of 30k. I can't imagine the model 3 having a higher base price and a lower range. So I think it is fairly likely that the model 3 will have a 250 mile range, if not more.

buddyroe | 13. Januar 2016

@jordanrichard - I don't think you read my entire post before you got excited and replied.

deeageux | 14. Januar 2016

@bricha55

Model 3 will start $2500 cheaper.

Bolt will start at $37,500 before Federal Credit and $30k after.

Model 3 will start at $35k before Federal Credit and $27,500 after.

Jolinar | 14. Januar 2016

no, I think Tesla should stick to its original goals...

Rocky_H | 14. Januar 2016

@deeageux, Thank you for setting that straight about the prices.

dlinkeg | 14. Januar 2016

Has anyone heard any rumors that the Model 3 will have an AWD added cost option?

Also, any thoughts about towing capabilities of small trailers (under 2K lbs) by the Model 3, since the Model X has such tremendous towing capabilities?

Any special deals for orphan EV owners (like our Coda without any warranty or support--boo hoo)?

JuJoo | 14. Januar 2016

@dlinkeg

Most likely AWD will be an option.

Towing might be possible, unsure about +/- 2k lbs.

I doubt it. Tesla doesn't do any deals/discounts, save for CPO or Referral Program.

EcLectric | 15. Januar 2016

@chrispga,

We could get a 250 mile range if the silicon in the anode would stay together instead of balooning up when the battery is charged and breaking the anode to pieces.

Perhaps we should petition the silicon to behave:

Dear silicon,

Please, please stop breaking apart the anode when the battery is charged! We know you're having a hard time with all that lithium invading the anode, but can't you just keep it together? Huddle with your silicon buddies and have a drink, and leave the rest of the anode alone! We need for you to do so, so you must do so.

Thanks for your understanding.

Sincerely,

The Tesla Forum

Red Sage ca us | 15. Januar 2016

kseehafer: The BMW 7-Series competes directly against the Tesla Model S.

The Model S outsells the 7-Series by more than 2:1 in the US.

US 7-Series sales have steadily declined, year-after-year since the Model S was introduced in 2012.

The Tesla Model ≡ will compete directly against the BMW 3-Series.

The BMW 3-Series outsells the 7-Series by better than 10:1 in the US.

BMW doesn't care in the slightest that people buy the 3-Series instead of the 7-Series.

The 3-Series is the single best selling BMW in the US. The 3-Series is the single best selling premium vehicle in the US. The 3-Series is the single best selling premium vehicle in the world.

Tesla Motors has reiterated multiple times that the Model ≡ would be selling ten times as many vehicles by 2020 than could be built of Model S in 2014, or sold in 2015.

So why in the bloody [HECK] should Tesla Motors attempt to 'protect' sales of Model S from being 'cannibalized' by Model ≡...?

I believe the base version of Tesla Model ≡ will provide a 250 mile range.

hybridCARS (June 11, 2015) -- Musk Says Tesla Model 3 Will Have 250 Miles (Or More) Range

I believe that Tesla Motors must engineer the Model ≡ for a range high enough so that the EPA range rating will be substantially over 200 miles.

chrispga | 26. Januar 2016

Let's never settle. Let's never take what we can get. We've settle with oil for 100 years and Wall Street is controlled by oil today. Turn on Bloomberg or check your market sources if you have any doubts.

Tesla never settled, Elon never settles, let's follow their lead and never settle. Let's bring a product to market that's better than the nearest competitor and a offer 250 mile range minimum at launch in late 2017 - early 2018.

Let's use economy of scale to maximize profits. A $35,000, 250 mile range Model III will announce electric cars are here to stay and officially start the paradigm shift in the Auto Industry.

I've heard your arguments for less. Can I get one person to join me in demanding the best from a company we all believe in? Let's shake up the auto industry!

jordanrichard | 26. Januar 2016

Tesla doesn't care about protecting MS sales figures. Remember what Tesla's mission is, to get people to stop driving ICE cars. So whether you buy a Model 3, MS or MX, mission accomplished.

Rocky_H | 27. Januar 2016

@chrispga, Quote: "Let's never settle. Let's never take what we can get. [...] Tesla never settled, Elon never settles, let's follow their lead and never settle. Let's bring a product to market that's better than the nearest competitor [...]"

People don't want something to be lower capability just for the purpose of being worse. That's ridiculous. But everything involves cost tradeoffs. People want the Model 3 to be more and better and have 800+ mile range and do 0 to 60 in 2 seconds, and have electronic everything and all wheel drive and full auto pilot and air conditioned Corinthian leather seats and and and ... oh yeah, and still have all of that in the base model at $35K. Sure, no one is stopping you from having expectations like that, but you are likely to be disappointed.

Musk has said that they could make the Model S with 500 mile range now, but it would be even more crazy expensive, so it's not the direction they want to go right now while battery prices are still high. Even with the Gigafactory lowering battery prices, they are trying to get to HALF the base price of the Model S. It probably will have some optional bigger battery packs for higher prices, but at the base model price, it might not be quite as mind-blowingly amazing as some people hope for.

Red Sage ca us | 27. Januar 2016

Just understand that whichever version of Tesla Model ≡ has the longest range, that will be its best seller. Period.

Hence, my hope that whatever Tesla Motors has in mind as maximum be the sole offering for the first 18-24 months. Thus, the base offering at $35,000 as well.

Brian H | 27. Januar 2016

Ya, Elon was quite surprised that people pay extra so willingly for range.

mille | 28. Januar 2016

Again if the Bolt is a ugly hatchback at 37,500$ how will Tesla produce a BMW Serie 3 kind of car? How is it possible? BMW is making ludicrous profit?

Timo | 28. Januar 2016

By being a lot better than Chevrolet at making BEV:s.

Everybody else is lightyears behind Tesla.

Rocky_H | 28. Januar 2016

@mille, Their battery costs are much lower than anyone else's already, and when they have their own factory to produce them, their costs will be even lower.

jloh00 | 28. Januar 2016

Wow. Lots of information, but most is way over my head. I have a simple question regarding range: I like to drive out I-10 from San Antonio to the Laughlin, NV area, but the distance from San Antonio to El Paso is approximately 560 miles and I didn't see a supercharger on the map for that area. Does the Model S (250 mile range) have a regenerative braking system whereas you could add to the range during normal braking? After El Paso, I believe there is some SC availability. Thanks for any assistance.

Earl and Nagin ... | 28. Januar 2016

@jloh00,
If you look at the 2016 projected supercharger map, you'll see that I-10 is covered from San Antonio to El Paso. There aren't any there now but Tesla definitely plans to cover that route. It is never certain when they will install superchargers though. It often gets delayed from projected times.
As far as regenerative braking goes, the Model S and pretty much every other EV being manufactured today has it, however it won't help you too much between San Antonio and El Paso since that is a very flat, wide-open route. Regen mainly helps in heavy traffic and, to a lesser extent, in mountainous terrain where one needs to adjust speed a lot.

jordanrichard | 28. Januar 2016

To clarify about regenerative "braking". With Tesla's it is the regeneration that brakes (slows down) the car. It has absolutely nothing to do with the brakes themselves. Other car has regenerative systems that only work when the brakes are applied.

jloh00, you will notice on the supercharger map that it is dated. Meaning what you are seeing is not the final "picture" of the supercharger network. By the time the Model 3 comes out, there will be far more supercharger sites.

When I took delivery of my car in Mar 2014, there were only 3 locations in all of New England, now there are 13.

dlinkeg | 09. Februar 2016

chrispga, I will definitely support your goal to get Tesla to give customers what we want, rather than what traditional auto companies have done: "This is what we know that you will want, like it or not."
Tesla has already gone down the customer support road in many ways. I hope that AWD is an option, plus 250 mile real world range, for the Model 3. I am eagerly awaiting late March for the first word.

hsadler | 09. Februar 2016

Have you driven a 3 series lately? My opinion is that it is now pushing the bottom limit to be considered a premium vehicle.

Red Sage ca us | 09. Februar 2016

hsadler: Prior to 2012, I was never impressed by BMW 3-Series. It's singular claim to fame is that it is rear-wheel-drive, while many of the cars it had competed against directly over the past 25 years or so are based on front-wheel-drive platforms. Until the current model, I thought they were boring and stodgy at best and downright fugly at worst. It astounded me every time someone at Car and Driver would write those cars were 'sporty looking'. I figured those guys needed their eyes checked, or that they all must be really old... Funny that people consider it a 'luxury' car too, because I remember that back in the 80s they were no better appointed than a Volkswagen Jetta and were if anything, absolutely bare and spartan, devoid of creature comforts entirely. Though they are much improved, I still prefer the style of other cars in class including the new Jaguar XE, Cadillac ATS, and BMW's own 4-Series. But yeah... the BMW 3-Series has always been a 'bottom limit' Premium car. The only things 'Premium' about it were its handling characteristics and the propeller badges.

Darryl | 20. Februar 2016

You may be comparing apples to oranges. Elon said the Model ≡ will be a luxury sedan, a smaller version of the Model S. The Bolt is not a luxury sedan. There is a lot more to a car than just how many miles it will go. If you don't care about things like comfort, number of passengers, safety rating, luggage capacity and many more than maybe the Bolt is the best car for you. In addition to Superchargers which are mainly for long distant travel there are more and more charging station, many at a cost ever day. Your primary charging location will always be your home. $35k is the starting price which could change even though Tesla is committed to trying to make it at this price point. I am sure EVERYTHING will be an option on the Model ≡ and if you get a decently equipped model with a decent range you will be talking twice that if not more.