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Max range at 3 degrees F is 93 miles

Max range at 3 degrees F is 93 miles

I charged my Model 3 to 90% (~270 miles) this AM. (Max range is 310 my) When I left my home it was 3 degrees F. When I left work in the evening it was still 3 degrees F.

Round trip is about 60 miles miles.

When I got home the battery charge was 26%.

270 = 90%
78 = 26%
60 miles round trip
3 degrees

This means that a 100% charge will only travel 93 miles if driving in 3 degrees F.

Note: mix of city and highway driving at/below speed limit

charles.a.braun | 21. Januar 2019

Were you using the heater?

RES IPSA | 21. Januar 2019

Maybe EV's aren't ready for climates that are very cold 2-4 months of the year? May want to keep your old ICE for the winter

ReD eXiLe ms us | 21. Januar 2019

HZwerling: Maybe you should live somewhere the Sun shines and is habitable by human beings? I'm told Io is rather chilly this time of year. Or? You can wait until Tesla offers a Model 3 with a 170-to-220 kWh battery pack capacity.

RES IPSA | 21. Januar 2019

But people do love their Teslas in Norway where it is very cold for 5 plus months of the year. Maybe figure out what they do to extend their range... keep the car plugged in and charging until right before your drive to work? Seat heaters rather than vent?

mabuck | 21. Januar 2019

Sounds about right if you're constantly driving 75+, in snowing conditions at 3f. You shouldn't see that amount of loss unless you have a snowflake icon and you don't charge prior to driving with a cold soaked battery.

mrburke | 21. Januar 2019

@HZwerling -Several questions if I may. I am trying to compile some data points.

How much did you charge that morning ?
What was the charge rate ?
Were you charging up to the time you left ?
Did you "pre-heat" the car ?

When you got to work, what was the range showing ?
And when you left work what was the range showing ?

Thanks for your time.

burdogg | 21. Januar 2019

Interesting - I charged to 100% (310 miles) drove for 144 miles in 0 degree weather. Parked for 2 hours, drove back home 144 miles, finished with 10 miles left - Real world data as well.

This was 2 lane highways - speeds at 65 mph.

It all depends on what you choose. We knew we didn't want to charge (as there are zero supercharges along this trip) so we didn't use any heat except the occasional defroster. Seat heaters served just fine for me the whole trip. Left at 6 am.

So it all just depends - but yeah even in 0 degree weather we did pretty close to actual...

burdogg | 21. Januar 2019

for me - Preheated before we left - while still plugged in. No other preheating used/heater use at all. Sure, not everyone does that, but we do it pretty routinely. Some want heat blowing on them constantly - others don't need it (although my wife chose to have a blanket on her legs - of course she was in a dress too)

jjgunn | 21. Januar 2019

We're not receiving enough information form the OP.

60 miles round trip.

What was the SoC when arriving at work?

Did you pre-heat/condition the vehicle before leaving home? If not, I'm assuming limited brake Regen for most of the ride?

What's was SoC when leaving work?

As asked previously, did you use the heater? I'm guessing yes at 3 degrees.

Any ability to charge while at work?

A lot of factors involved.

shawncordell | 21. Januar 2019

When I charge to 90% I get 279 miles btw...

HZwerling | 21. Januar 2019

I leave the car plugged in over night to my Tesla charger and it is charged to 90% when I leave in the AM. I to preheat the car for about 45 min in the AM while still plugged in. I unplugged just before I leave.

I also preheat for about 30 minutes before I left work- no charging at work.

The highway speed was slower than usual, certainly less than 65 mph.

It was 3 degrees outside, so yes, I use the heater.

I love living in New England precisely because we have 4 distinct and delightful seasons

And I really like my Model 3 although I think the voice commands need to be much more useful.

I can not provide more specifics as I did not record any more data

RES IPSA | 21. Januar 2019

I bet you lost most of your range starting about 30 minutes before you left work (preheated the cabin for 30 minutes) and while driving home (started to drive home with a cold battery).

mrburke | 21. Januar 2019

@HZwerling - Were the roads clear ? (no snow, even a little?)
Where you using the standard tires, or winter tires ?
18" or 19" tires ?

This is good data you are providing us.

Finoguy | 21. Januar 2019

@HZwerling Next time try preheating for just 3-5 minutes before you leave work. I live in MN where it's also cold. I always find that, home or away, 3-5 minutes of preheating is all I need to get the cabin (and seat heater) toasty warm. Anything more than that is just wasting battery.

HZwerling | 21. Januar 2019

Roads were clear

Need to preheat so the doors/windows will open after ice/snow/rain. (The car lives outside, not in a garage)

The car is plugged in while preheated at home but not at work.

Standard tires, AWD.

kevin_rf | 21. Januar 2019

Did the Kessel run last night from Jersey City to just North of Worcester in two SC's. Was averaging over 450 watt hours per mile range while doing 65 (did not trust the roads to drive faster). The killer was not the efficiency, but the extra long charger times because of the cold battery.

That and it insisting in throwing me on the Merritt instead of more SC friendly 95. My problem while trying to escape NY is the bone headed SC choices the car made, along with the routing. It really wanted me to SC 30ish miles outside of NYC and SC in at the Auburn SC with a predicted battery of 10%... Which would have been -10% by the time I arrived. Thank goodness for Manchester CT SC.

RES IPSA | 21. Januar 2019

You guys are troopers... I would have never bought a M3 right now if I lived in cold weather 3 or more months out of the year. I have yet to even turn on my heater yet, but I did lose some range today running the AC here in SD.

burdogg | 21. Januar 2019

HZwerling - Pay attention to what miles you have left when you get to work...that would be really good data to help you see. Then before you start preheating from your phone - see what miles it then says - as this will tell you how many miles you lost with it just sitting for the day.

Next turn on your heater to preheat - and if you do it for 30 min - check what you are at when you go to drive home - I would bet that 30 min period you lost a ton of miles.
Then last - how many miles form the time you got in to when you got home.

So record the following:
Start miles
Get to work and get out
When you get on phone to start preheating
When you get in car to drive home
Final destination miles

It would be a great exercise for you to see where you are losing the most miles and good info for some around here too.

There are many variables at play too though - on your drive - what heat setting do you have it at - are you on auto heat setting - where you only select the temp and let the car decide how fast or slow the fan is on and where....

But I do agree with the statements above - that 30 min preheat while NOT plugged in is going to cut down the miles you have available.

coleAK | 21. Januar 2019

First off I’ve found in the cold the mile meter is useless. I switch to % and use the energy app to determine range.

Week before last we had 10 days where it never got above 0 (F). Had down to -30. In town driving, entirely snow/ice covered roads (no salt in AK), 18” aero with hakka9’s, heat on 67 auto, heated garage overnight, outside 11-12 hours for work, pre heat every time. I go Down and up ~1000 vertical feet every day Over that stretch I tracked it and averaged 480 Wh/mi. So that is ~50% range loss from the 310.

Now I have seen trips where I’m on the 600+ Wh/mi: single digits or below (F), major ice, deep snow. So cold and slick or lose high friction is your enemy.

coleAK | 21. Januar 2019

And I lose 2-3% with a 20-30 min pre heat.

coleAK | 21. Januar 2019

And I lose 2-3% with a 20-30 min pre heat.

lph | 21. Januar 2019

I experience is temperature is actually a relatively small factor unless you use heat in the cabin. More important is the rolling resistance and net air resistance.
I find that when the roads are very wet and it is raining hard, it really takes a toll on the range. Rain by itself can cause extra drag because it increases the net density of the air. Puddles also cause drag by having to push the water away.

mmclean708 | 22. Januar 2019

I live in Maine. Snowstorm Sunday caused us to charge to 93% Saturday then move car to end of driveway, no garage. Car sat all day Sunday unused and unplugged. After shoveling I started preheat, car was at 88%. Drove 26 miles to work in snowy, icy roads, low regen and chill. Car sat from 915 am to 440 PM, I started preheat at 4. When I got into car I had the snowflake so I sat for a few minutes, then drove home, 26 miles, crappy roads. Arrived home to plug in and i was at 52%.
I ran heater and fan. It was around 2f with windchills. Driving home I increased fan speed, used back seat heat, temp set at 72 f.
M3awd. And the first 1/3 mile is a dirt road that was only semi plowed. No charger at work.
Oh, and stock m/s 18" wheels.
And my roads are state roads but in Maine that means low maintenance, until I hit rt 1 13 miles into my drive. No highways in my neck if the woods.
And I do love my state except January and February...

mmclean708 | 22. Januar 2019

Oh, and I should add that on these roads, 35 mph is the best i can do, I prefer to go slow and arrive then end up in a ditch. When I get to route 1 it's in towns mostly, so that keeps the speed down too.

kevin_rf | 22. Januar 2019

Well off to work, outside temp is 0.0, 45 miles each way... Should have plenty of range. No, preheat, I just get in and drive... Well maybe turn on the heated driver's seat and then drive.

TM3Q | 22. Januar 2019

Last cold wave weather we had I drove at -24C (-13F) on snowy and iced highway without any problem beside keeping maximun speed at 105km/h (65mph) because the tires were so hard frozen and poor road adherence.

Something happened while I was driving back home (180 miles trip) after 40 minutes on the highway the blue snow flake icon started to show ON and OFF then stayed ON wich tells me the battery was not keeping itself warm enough thru battery discharging while driving that the warming battery system had to kick in to warm more the battery, when this happen the outside temperature was -23C ( -9F), I cleared the blue snow flake icon by stopping at a SC to recharge (I need it anyway because low on battery) and put maximum heat climate with all seats heater ON while I went for lunch.

So far I say this car pass the winter test!!!

kevin_rf | 22. Januar 2019

Phew, drove to work, back, the blood drive, then for groceries with 0.6 miles to spare! It was 0.0 this morning, then a balmy 20.0 on the drive home...

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs9hk_BgsQ0/

spuzzz123 | 23. Januar 2019

There are a few defensive responses here. But there’s an undeniable truth that op did not know before purchasing an ev. A completely cold soaked battery (parked outside of a garage) in extreme cold temperatures has a significant loss of range. Takes a good 45 minutes or more of freeway speed driving to warm it up. Then reasonable ranges can be achieved even in very cold temps. But op drives only 30 miles to work, then allows battery to cool down through work day and drives home. Op has found all of the worst circumstances, simultaneously, for range on an ev. Take solace from n fact that you can still get to and from work and that these extreme temps are only around for a couple of months. The other ten months of the year should be a very pleasant experience for you.

Chnowak | 23. Januar 2019

I really wonder if much of the loss is due to AWD vs RWD. I also live in New England with LR AWD. Drove around 20 miles last night in 20F weather to Logan Airport at around 50-70 MPH the entire time with heat at 68F and seat heater on. Aero caps off, and didn’t preheat (but I park in a garage) and averaged 228 wh/mi for the drive. I know it’s not 0F but still at 20T without preconditioning I’d expect worse based off of all the posts. I’m more and more pleased that I went RWD vs AWD

ODWms | 23. Januar 2019

I think there’s a difference, but I doubt RWD would make that much of a difference in those conditions.

spuzzz123 | 23. Januar 2019

Chnowak, 20F inside a garage is a HUGE difference from parking overnight outside in subzero temps. Your battery was not cold soaked like OPs was.

OP you may try this...try to time your charging so that it just finishes up as you are ready to leave. That plus the same cabin preheating 30 minutes before you leave may help *some*.

burdogg | 23. Januar 2019

spuzz123 - did you not read the ops later post :) He does that - and hence why some of us have said pre-heating for 40 minutes while not plugged in is also taking a toll on his miles lost he is seeing.

I still would love to see the op do the number crunch I asked for as it would be really great to see where those lost miles are happening at (is it mostly during the drive? Is it the preheating? Is it the sitting, etc....)

andy.connor.e | 23. Januar 2019

Lets use some realistic numbers here. If you preheated before you left in the morning, that should take care of warming the pack enough when you left. Assuming it takes you about 45 min to get to work, heres what i am able to come up with based on the info given.

90% charge - ~67.5kWh pack energy level.
45 min to work with heater running at ~6kW - ~4.5kWh used
30 miles driven at ~280Wh/mi - ~8.4kWh used
30 min preheat before leaving work at ~6kW - ~3kWh used
Drive home identical to work - ~8.4kWh used

Total 24.3kWh which brings your battery from 67.5 to 43.2kWh, or about 57%.

It would seem that some 25% of your battery was used by keeping the pack warm all day? Maybe. Not really sure where all that extra energy would have gone to.

coleAK | 23. Januar 2019

@andy. Not sure about your math based on what I’m seeing in Alaska. When it’s <0F it’s using 1% of battery every 10-20 min to pre heat. And I haven’t seen anything close to 280 Wh/mi in cold temps. I’m in the 400-500 Wh/mi when it’s <10 F going 35-55 mph in town. And really not all that much more usage at -15 -20. I guess the draw from the heat is maxed out. As for cold soak battery loss. The most I’ve lost in 11 hours it sits outside is 4% at -15 to -20 (F)

My round trip to work is ~20 miles. I’ve been using 10-15% each day. Yesterday we had a heat wave the high was 22F and I only used 7%

andy.connor.e | 23. Januar 2019

@coleAK

If we use the average of your Wh/mi at 450, this is what it looks like.

8.4kWh each way goes to 13.5kWh, bringing to total usage to 34.5kWh, bringing the 90% charge down from 67.5 to 33kWh, or about 44%.

Which would mean that about 18% of the battery was used keeping itself warm for the whole day. Not sure how many hours OP had the car sitting in the parking lot.

Brian B | 23. Januar 2019

Does hard acceleration aid in warming the battery on cold days?

12Brent | 23. Januar 2019

Biran B, yes, hard acceleration is supposed to help warm the pack faster, according to some people. Of course the hard acceleration uses more energy so I'm not sure it it'll help overall efficiency.

I just drove mine in 2F weather, uphill at 70 mph for 90 miles (from Glenwood Springs to Silverthorne supercharger, 3200 foot elevation gain). I started with 165 miles of rated range and ended with 30 miles of range to spare (used 135 miles of range). I didn't preheat the car and I had the cabin temp set at 68 degrees, with heated seats on. I know that @Burrdog and I have RWD cars and they are more efficient, but I don't understand these horrible range numbers unless people are driving around with the heat set to "HI". (Really Tesla? "HI"?... you couldn't have made it "Max", or just used "L" and "H"? Is my car saying hello to me?).

As an aside, there is no reason to preheat for 30 minutes. It won't appreciably warm the battery pack and it only takes 5 minutes to get the cabin to a comfortable temperature.

TeslaMarque | 23. Januar 2019

I agree, according to my personal experience an extended pre-heat is a waste of energy. It doesn’t efficiently warm the battery more than charging prior to leave, and it’s unnecessary. The cabin heats up very quickly once driven, even from a cold soaked state. I think anything longer than a 10-15 min preheat is just a waste of energy.

I have found the quickest way to warm the battery, so that you don’t have the “dots” on your regen/acceleration bar, is to accelerate aggressively and use regen as much as possible. Doing these two things aggressively is the fastest way I have seen my battery heat up. Not sure if this is the best way to warm it up battery health wise, but I have four it’s the fastest and most affective.

Bighorn | 23. Januar 2019

Funny, mine doesn't work that way. Drove over 11,600 miles since Christmas all on superchargers, and very few were less than 93 miles apart.

spuzzz123 | 23. Januar 2019

@burdogg -- I did in fact read it, but all I gathered was he charged up to 90%, and then later in the morning preheated while plugged in. My suggestion was a slight variation to ensure he continuously charged right up until departure time. It may or may not help - - but might be worth a try. Apologize to OP if I interpreted incorrectly.

kingofl337 | 23. Januar 2019

I of the bottom cushion of the front seats. It feels cold compared to the middle of the cushion.set my M3 Mid for 5-10min max of pre-heat at 69deg with the drivers seat on. It was 8F the other day and the app reported 69deg inside after 5 or so minutes. This usually more then comfortable enough. I will say I dislike the lack of heat in the bolsters

kingofl337 | 23. Januar 2019

I set my M3 Mid for 5-10min max of pre-heat at 69deg with the drivers seat on. It was 8F the other day and the app reported 69deg inside after 5 or so minutes. This usually more then comfortable enough. I will say I dislike the lack of heat in the bolsters in the middle of the bottom cushion of the front seats. It feels cold compared to the middle of the cushion.

(fixed I don't know what happened on the last post)

burdogg | 23. Januar 2019

@spuzzz123 - ha - maybe I should read yours a little more carefully :) missed that you were saying to end charging right before he left :)

Bill Korea | 23. Januar 2019

When the battery is too cold to take regen, it would be nice if regen energy could be directed to a big power resistor - to help warm the battery, the cabin, and to provide a consistent regen feel. Maybe it would be a serious cold-weather package instead of another California dream.

HZwerling | 27. Januar 2019

Many have commented that there is no need to heat on HIGH for a long time before driving. In order to minimize the windows sticking and door handles being too stiff to open, Tesla recommends 1 hour of preheating.

from
https://electrek.co/2017/12/22/tesla-new-mobile-app-update-with-battery-...
Tesla explains the feature in the mobile app released last night:

“When temperatures are near freezing, preconditioning will also heat your battery for better driving and charging performance. We recommend you plug in to reduce range loss, and start pre-conditioning about an hour before you plan to leave since it can take some time to warm up the battery in colder weather. Note: Requires vehicle software version 2017.50 or above.”

TM3Q | 27. Januar 2019

@Bill Korea

Yes doesn't make any sense to not use the power generated from the motor when it becomes a generator while not being powered just because it's too cold to recharge the battery. When the battery pack is cold instead of losing or limited regen mode it could power other stuff and still have regen braking effect.

TM3Q | 27. Januar 2019

@Bill Korea

Also I was just thinking about one of my project where I heat piece of metal by putting around a coil wich I injected alternative current (I made an oscillatior). You don't need the coil to touch the metal in order to heat it by electromagnetic induction. So I was just thinking a metal pipe where the battery coolant goes thru and you heat a little portion of it so you can rapidly heat the coolant. This could be an add-on if their thinking of improving their system, it's powerful, quick generating heat and no electronic submerge in liquid as it's all outside the pipe (coil and electronic "module"). If it clears EMI regulation I would say why not, you use the power generated from your motor (which become a generator when not use as a motor) to power this "module". There's many other ideas but just too bad all the technical teams are in US, I would gladly work for Tesla if they had a team in Quebec city :-)

Kenz | 27. Januar 2019

In the winter ALWAYS preheat the car before driving anywhere.

kcheng | 28. Januar 2019

I'm in Maine, and Winter has been cold. My Model 3 lives in a carport, so it's cold. If you have the Stats app, you get an efficiency chart of all your trips graphed against the ambient temp. The chart only goes down to 10degrees F, but you can extrapolate. Just looking at my chart today, at ZERO degrees F, my efficiency would probably be a bit above 80%. I only preheat if I'm going more than 50 miles away; otherwise I set it on 65 degrees and Fan level 1. No snow tires, pressures at 45lbs.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9t664oxd1dbrdcd/Efficiency.jpg?dl=0