Battery Research

Battery Research

This from a tech blog I read ----- "We demonstrated that we can charge an electrical vehicle in 10 minutes for a 200- to 300-mile range (320- to 480-km),” says Wang. "And we can do this maintaining 2,500 charging cycles, or the equivalent of half a million miles of travel." Long way from lab to market but still something to consider. The research is being done at Penn State and uses high temperature charging which up until now has been a huge no no but they have found a way to make it work without damaging the battery. | 31. Oktober 2019

I'm hopeful, but I see similar reports at least 4-5 times a year for 8 years now. Someone will figure it out, but charge speed and cycles are only one part of the equation. A successful battery for a vehicle needs:

Cost competitive with current tech
Good energy density
Handle severe vibration
Ideally, require no toxic chemicals
Ability to recycle components
Work in extreme automotive temperatures
Reliable and consistent manufacturability
Longevity and low degradation over time

Often new approaches sound great but fail to meet one of these additional objectives. Still, it's great to see work being done.

Bighorn | 31. Oktober 2019

Years ago, when claims like this were coming out monthly, Elon basically said 'show me the money'.

carlk | 31. Oktober 2019

Elon famously said years ago don't show me the powerpoint, show me the samples. Powerpoints are easy and cheap to produce with only one shortcoming. You can't use them is a car.

reed_lewis | 31. Oktober 2019

Yup. there is a term in the computer business called 'PowerpointWare' which is just an idea. Back in the 90's, you could get $10 million with just a good presentation.

marcustcohn | 31. Oktober 2019

OK OK - I get it. Back when I worked for IBM there was 'vaporware' - stuff that was on paper but not in existence. But this is at least in the lab -

"We demonstrated that we can charge an electrical vehicle in ten minutes for a 200 to 300 mile range," said Chao-Yang Wang, William E. Diefenderfer Chair of mechanical engineering, professor of chemical engineering and professor of materials science and engineering, and director of the Electrochemical Engine Center at Penn State. "And we can do this maintaining 2,500 charging cycles, or the equivalent of half a million miles of travel." --

Don't know if it can be scaled or replicated but it is a long way ahead of any power point. Have some tolerance for what might be good news.

jimglas | 31. Oktober 2019

agreed. All progress is appreciated. I suspect 10 years from now we will look at this the early beginning and quite primitive.

Earl and Nagin ... | 31. Oktober 2019

There are liars, damn liars, and battery makers.
There hasn't really been a huge breakthrough since the basic Li-ion battery, since then, it has been small, incremental improvements.
I'm glad that researchers are working on improvements but you've got to reign in your enthusiasm for announcements or you'll just be disappointed.

nukequazar | 31. Oktober 2019

That's what we need. ICEV-like fill-up times. Then more people will accept BEV's.

NKYTA | 31. Oktober 2019

We already have it. Thanks SC Network.

nukequazar | 01. November 2019

What, @NKYTA? It's nowhere close to filling up at a gas station. Oh, was that sarcasm?

Mark K | 01. November 2019

It took a while, but John Goodenough and colleagues, finally did win the Nobel Prize.

At 97, the oldest Nobel Laureate in history.

God bless ‘em, and all those who take us forward. We need it.

SamO | 01. November 2019

V3 Superchargers provide 1000 miles of range per hour.

So yes, fillup times are comparable to ICE.

Or have you never seen a Costco has line?

SamO | 01. November 2019

Has = gas

Earl and Nagin ... | 01. November 2019

I drove across the USA, VA to CA in 3 days, in time for an afternoon business meeting the 3rd day. That's a good time for an ICE car. I'll contend that the Model 3 is pretty much at parity for road trips with ICE as far as refueling goes. The slightly longer fueling time is over-come by the ability to do other things while refueling.
For day-to-day, with a Level 2 charger at home, the Tesla is far superior to ICE for refueling since your car starts full each day with no effort.
Sure a 10,000 mile without filling up with gas or electrons would be more convenient but that's just Star Trek fantasy.
Don't let the quest for the perfect get in the way of a big improvement.

marcustcohn | 01. November 2019

@earl - Having made many 1000 to 2000 mile trips in both Model S and ICE here is what I experienced. The best I could do with Model S is average 50 mph - from start of day to stop of day - with ICE it was a little better than 60. ICE gas stations are easier to find and access than SC stations - the fill up is predictable vs some SCs running slower than 120kW - no question we enjoy the Model S ride much more but it is not near as quick as ICE from A to B if you need multiple SC stops - and this was with a S100D.

Bighorn | 01. November 2019

It depends if you can multi task with the charging i.e. eating, BR stops, that often are not achieved by ICE drivers while fuel is flowing. I’ve kept up with plenty of ICE cars on cross country trips in my 85. Not the pee in a jar, front seat grazers with 38 gallon tanks and a timeframe, but normal folks. 50 mph average is right for a Model S 85, but 100s are about 10% quicker and 3s are 20-30% quicker, so could keep up with your average ICE handily.

RAR | 01. November 2019

I regularly get 54 mph average on a 676 mile trip if there are no traffic tie ups. Model S90D. And on my last trip the car was ready before I was on two of the four stops (breakfast and lunch). The faster charging is nice.

marcustcohn | 01. November 2019

OK - What would you say is the total time for a SC stop - that is getting off the highway, finding the SC, charging, and then getting back on the highway?

Regardless of vehicle we stop the same for dog walks, rest stops, eat lunch out of our cooler, breakfast at MacDonald and dinner after we stop for the night but as I said above Model S averages 50 and ICE 60 with everything else held constant. Out ice trips have been in hybrids that averaged about 45 mpg at 70-75 mph so I am thinking it is the SC stops ----????

SamO | 01. November 2019

I drove from Los Angeles to Custer SD in May.

1309 miles.

22 hours

Average speed with stops ...59.5mph.

SamO | 01. November 2019

LR Model 3

marcustcohn | 01. November 2019

@SamO - How many SC stops ? and were there any other stops besides those ?

RAR | 02. November 2019

@marcustcohn Perhaps I'm lucky, but three of my stops take no longer off and back on than it would for a gas stop. And it is the same stops each time, so I don't have to search. Those are Columbia SC (Breakfast), Wytheville VA (Lunch), and Charleston WV. Northbound I also stop at Charlotte NC (elevation raise to next stop). It is a little farther off the route, but traffic there is slow anyway. in a Model 3 LR or Raven I wouldn't need to stop at Charlotte.

I used to do quick meal stops like MacDonald's, but now I like a little more rest and relaxation.

marcustcohn | 02. November 2019

@SamO - well good job - you are very efficient vs. my trips - a dog that has to be walked and/or a wife that wants to stop at a rest area. We do save some time by eating lunch out of our cooler but those extra stops really knock the average down. All that said though in an 1800 mile trip with 9 SC stops ICE is quicker albeit much less enjoyable. The only reason it even comes up in conversation is when it might add an extra day to a trip.

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