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Auto Pilot Safety Features Are Standard

Auto Pilot Safety Features Are Standard

There are some(maybe one) on this forum that like to spread misinformation on the Model 3. One being it's not going to be a safe car.

Watch the video on the Model 3 page and pay attention around the 10:50 mark. That's where Elon states that auto pilot hardware is on all Model 3s, and of course that has changed to include hardware for autonomous driving. He also states there will be no additional cost to activate the safety features, they are standard.

This along with their desire to achieve five star ratings in all categories should make this a very safe car.

RP3 | 22. Oktober 2016

I've seen this a few times here, but I really don't know what autopilot features are considered "Safety" features versus "Convenience" features. Is there a link to a Tesla page that specifies what's what?

akgolf | 22. Oktober 2016

No link that I know of.

I would think that braking and blind spot alerts would be part of the safety features.

TACC or traffic aware cruise control would be convenience.

KP in NPT | 22. Oktober 2016

+1 Jsimpsonalaska. Also, it is one poster in particular is responsible for the BS on this topic. Part of the problem is he states opinion as fact, or assumptions as fact.

Besides those Jsimpson listed, we will have to wait to see exactly what other features are included standard and what will be part of AP. (or, EAP.) There are new features of AP 8.0 that also improve safety, such as braking based on traffic 2 cars ahead in stop and go. We will have to wait on specifics from Tesla to know for sure. Not assumptions, speculation, or lies from forum members - especially those who don't even own a Tesla now.

leskchan | 22. Oktober 2016

Frontal Collision Avoidance System, based on AP hardware is standard on S/X and will be for 3, with or without AP software option.

akgolf | 22. Oktober 2016

From Tesla's website:

Standard Safety Features
These active safety technologies, including collision avoidance and automatic emergency braking, will become available in December 2016 and roll out through over-the-air software updates

Automatic Emergency Braking

Designed to detect objects that the car may impact and applies the brakes accordingly
Side Collision Warning

Warns the driver of potential collisions with obstacles alongside the car
Front Collision Warning

Helps warn of impending collisions with slower moving or stationary cars
Auto High Beams

Adjusts high/low beams as required

KP in NPT | 22. Oktober 2016

And that is as of now. Other things might be included by the time the Model 3 is released. We don't know and shouldn't talk like we do. (well one person, anyway.)

akgolf | 22. Oktober 2016

From Chevy's own site, automatic emergency braking is only available as an option on the premier trim. So after you spend 48K for the premier model, you have to pay more for the same standard feature on the Model 3.

akgolf | 22. Oktober 2016

And the same holds true with the Auto High Beams. Standard on the base Model 3, an option on the more expensive Dolt.

akgolf | 22. Oktober 2016

These are the safety features you can upgrade to on the base Dolt:
Available Driver Confidence I Package (LT only)
Includes: Side blind zone alert, lane change alert, rear cross-traffic
alert, rear park assist

These are the safety features you can upgrade to on the more expensive version:
Available Driver Confidence II Package (Premier only)
Includes: Forward collision alert, low-speed front automatic braking,
lane keep assist with lane departure warning, front pedestrian
braking, IntelliBeam headlamps

EaglesPDX | 22. Oktober 2016

@RP3 "Is there a link to a Tesla page that specifies what's what?"

The Tesla "Model S: Custom Order" page. If you look at the features of AutoPilot option for $5,000. The dynamic cruise and lane keeping are mentioned as features you get when you purchase AP.

Tesla only mentions autobraking as the "safety feature" it will include without purchasing AP. It makes no mention of blind side and cross track indicators as included standard or only included with AP option.

SamO | 22. Oktober 2016

Standard Safety Features
These active safety technologies, including collision avoidance and automatic emergency braking, will become available in December 2016 and roll out through over-the-air software updates

Automatic Emergency Braking
Designed to detect objects that the car may impact and applies the brakes accordingly
Side Collision Warning

Warns the driver of potential collisions with obstacles alongside the car
Front Collision Warning

Helps warn of impending collisions with slower moving or stationary cars

Auto High Beams
Adjusts high/low beams as required

https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

akgolf | 22. Oktober 2016

That's a pretty nice package of standard safety features.

RP3 | 22. Oktober 2016

Thanks for the link!! I must have missed that last section with the Standard Safety Features. This is exactly what I was looking for.

RP3 | 22. Oktober 2016

Also...just curious, on the model s/x, if you don't opt for AP, do you get any kind of cruise control capability?

leskchan | 22. Oktober 2016

No. Tesla calls it Traffic Aware Cruise Control TACC and others call it Adpatice Curise Control ACC. TACC is part of AP option for current S and X.

KP in NPT | 22. Oktober 2016

Not even old fashioned cruise control? I have AP so i have TACC so honestly don't know. I know the pre-AP loaner I have now has regular cruise control.

Red Sage ca us | 22. Oktober 2016

Per the IIHS, Tesla Motors is among multiple traditional automobile manufacturers who will make the automatic emergency braking feature standard across their whole product lines by September 2022:

"The U.S. Department of Transportation's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety announced today a historic commitment by 20 automakers representing more than 99 percent of the U.S. auto market to make automatic emergency braking a standard feature on virtually all new cars no later than NHTSA's 2022 reporting year, which begins Sept. 1, 2022."
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/u-s-dot-and-iihs-announce-hist...

It seems that Tesla just has a bit of a head start, is all.

andy.connor.e | 23. Oktober 2016

I know that he said what he said and its in the video, but i SEVERELY doubt that the advanced/autonomous autopilot is not going to cost additional money to have activated.

andy.connor.e | 23. Oktober 2016

He also stated that the Supercharger network would come standard, but did not specify that Model 3 users would have to pay "by usage" to use them.

akgolf | 23. Oktober 2016

The autopilot hardware is standard, activating the features will be an option. Works for me.

I think he misstated the Supercharger network in the video. Most here know that the hardware is standard on the car and expect some kind of pay as you charge option for Model 3 owners. I'm fine with that, if I want to take it on the road at least I have a place to charge.

gekcut | 23. Oktober 2016

I can understand Tesla not wanting to show the final Model 3 and discuss performance details at this time but I would think it is likely they know what the details of the supercharging option will be and what safety features will be standard. If they do, I do not see the reason for not clearing up the confusion that has resulted from some of their statements. I will pay for the supercharging option if the terms are similar to those for the S and X but if it's only per charge I probably won't purchase a 3. I might go for an S or a vehicle from another company.

akgolf | 23. Oktober 2016

The standard safety features are posted on their site and listed a few posts ahead of this one by SamO.

It's likely Tesla hasn't made a decision yet on the Super Charging Network. The only fully electric vehicle other than a Tesla with decent range would be the Dolt, but it doesn't have any kind of charging network. Not sure why you would even consider that if a charging network is important.

gekcut | 23. Oktober 2016

@jsimpsonalaska

The link Samo gave seems to be to an AP page. I would like a clear statement from Tesla that these features will be standard on the base Model 3 not just on those with AP.

I did not say I would only purchase electric. Now retired, I plan to do a lot of traveling. The current supercharging option makes a lot of sense for me. If the 3 has only per use supercharging, then I will consider all the options available at the time. At this point, if Tesla doesn't know what they are going to offer that shows a lack of planning.

KP in NPT | 23. Oktober 2016

@gekcut, Tesla is still finalizing the Model 3. On the S and X, it is built into the price of the car. Elon said he doesn't think they can do the same for a car at the Model 3 price point. Once they know exactly how much it is going to cost to build, I expect then they will finalize how to charge for supercharging.

There are several possibilities, and once they know their costs, I am sure they will do what is easiest for owners, fairest, and best for the long term. It isn't that they aren't planning. It's that things are still in flux. Even if they do think they know now, circumstances could change between now and next year. I'd rather them wait and have it exactly right. We just have to be patient.

KP in NPT | 23. Oktober 2016

And of course in the above I was referring to supercharging. As for safety features, I expect we will know all those details, again, when final specs are released. AP 2.0 was just announced and hasn't even been validated yet. There may be other safety features of 2.0 that aren't part of 1.0. Again, patience.

akgolf | 23. Oktober 2016

I think the link he provided along with Elons statements at the unveiling about safety features being standard with no additional cost clears it up for me.

Who says Tesla doesn't know what they're going to offer? They're under no obligation to tell us, but they might at reveal part 2 or 3.

If they start to see a quick drop in canceled reservations that might prompt them to be a little more forthcoming, but I'm in no hurry.

gekcut | 23. Oktober 2016

I do not have a problem paying for a supercharging option that would have the same terms as supercharging on the X and S. I do not need to know its cost at this point. However I have been seeing talk of Tesla offering only pay for use supercharging for the 3. If that's the case, count me out.

Red Sage ca us | 24. Oktober 2016

gekcut: Millions of people will purchase ICE vehicles in the United States alone before the first Model ☰ is Delivered. Most of those have no idea that Tesla's 'affordable' car is on the way. Some will certainly be kicking themselves once it does arrive -- especially BMW fans. There is no need to enhance the desirability of Model ☰ by 'clarifying' anything further at this point. A lot of people do not remember how often Tesla had to change their range estimates for the Model S over the last 18-to-24 months before it reached the first Customers. No need to repeat that fiasco with Model ☰. It was bad enough how the information shown for Model X morphed considerably over the last 18 months before it reached the market. Let's not set up another so-called 'Overpromise, Underdeliver...' situation for Naysayers to crow about, eh?

Red Sage ca us | 24. Oktober 2016

jsimpsonalaska: I think Elon had someone yelling in his earpiece to remind him to NOT use the word 'FREE' at all during the Supercharger portion of the Model ☰ Reveal Part I. That undoubtedly made it quite hard to remain on track in those few seconds. From the very first moment that the words 'FREE FOREVER' came out of Elon's mouth four years ago, there have been those who have labeled that an outright lie at best. Because they have noted many times that it 'cannot possibly last'. I prefer to believe that such Naysayers will always be shown to be completely wrong.

gekcut | 25. Oktober 2016

@Red sage

I clearly said I understood Tesla not releasing performance details and then you justify them not releasing what safety items will be standard and what the terms of supercharging will be by referring to the release of performance data on the S. Let's not mix apples and oranges.

JeffreyR | 25. Oktober 2016

@gekcut
Don't expect many more details until M≡ Design Studio is available. Elon has said Safety Features will be standard and skipped what that meant to avoid confusion due to feature evolution while they develop them. That's the example @Red Sage was making. Same problem, different features.

cpmarino | 26. Oktober 2016

This concept of equipping the car with the AP 2.0 cameras & hardware but only charging the owner ($5-$8k!) if they wish to activate them simply cannot work. No manufacturer is going to build a mass market car with an extra $5k in hardware that they can only recoup if the driver wants to activate it. That makes no sense. So there will be some basic functionality, such as emergency braking and standard cruise control (no cameras required for that), but if you want the TACC or AP features, you will pay in advance and they'll include the hardware in the car.

EaglesPDX | 26. Oktober 2016

@cpmarino "This concept of equipping the car with the AP 2.0 cameras & hardware but only charging the owner ($5-$8k!) if they wish to activate them simply cannot work. No manufacturer is going to build a mass market car with an extra $5k in hardware that they can only recoup if the driver wants to activate it."

It works if:

1. Those who order all those options activated get their cars before those who do not. The result is Tesla always recoups the cost since it only ships cars to those who pay for the costs.

2. 70% of Tesla owners buy the major options. The Tesla sales history and buyer demographic shows most Tesla buyers will buy nearly fully optioned, certainly with the AWD, battery and AP turned on.

It will be interesting to see when the first $35K basic Tesla ships, probably late 2020.

Frank99 | 26. Oktober 2016

Sorry, cpmarino, but I don't believe that you have any insight into either the costs of the AP 2.0 hardware, the marginal cost of AP 2.0 over the standard sensor suite, the expected uptake of AP 2.0 from the internal business case, or the need to collect more real-world data from all cars not just AP2.0 equipped cars. All of these will factor into Tesla's decisions about whether AP2.0 is a build option or a SW option.

Frank99 | 26. Oktober 2016

Ninja'ed by E, and posting essentially the same argument. I hate it when that happens...

Although I think E is completely wrong about the ship date of base Model 3's. I really don't believe (and there's no solid information either way) that Tesla is going to put base 3's at the back of the line.

FISHEV | 26. Oktober 2016

@Frank99 " I really don't believe (and there's no solid information either way) that Tesla is going to put base 3's at the back of the line."

https://cleantechnica.com/2016/05/22/tesla-model-3-faq/ "Musk and Tesla have said that the company will fulfill highly optioned orders first, and will expedite those orders based on geography."

dsvick | 26. Oktober 2016

@cpmarino - Other than the fact that Tesla already said that they were going to do just that. Aside from that though, as stated above, you have no idea what the cost of the hardware is, or rather I should say, your idea that the incremental cost of the new hardware is $5K seems extremely high to me. If you're basing that on the cost of the activation then you should realize that that is the cost to activate the features not to install the hardware.

dsvick | 26. Oktober 2016

@Frank99 - there are actually a couple of places where Tesla has said they'd do the highly optioned ones first. I think those were before they realized how many reservations they were going to get and they increased the production ramp. There have been several posts that say that that statement was retracted but I don't think anyone has ever posted a valid link to anything remotely official. Although I personally feel that the number of reservations alone is enough to cancel that method since the idea that they need to rake in the profits quickly will diminish greatly with the increased production schedule.

PhillyGal | 26. Oktober 2016

I'd be surprised if regular cruise control isn't offered on cars that don't choose to activate AP features.

I just called my local service center and confirmed that a Model S purchased today without AP options still has regular cruise control. (I honestly didn't know the answer.)

akgolf | 26. Oktober 2016

I'll be willing to bet that a base Model 3 will be easier and quicker to buy at cost than a Dolt.

Since there will be a limited run of Dolts and Lyft will be getting them first, there won't be that many available. They're also going to a limited number of states, so good luck in Oklahoma. If someone really wants one, the dealer will mark them up because of limited supply.

dsvick | 26. Oktober 2016

@jsimpsonalaska - "Since there will be a limited run of Dolts and Lyft will be getting them first, there won't be that many available. They're also going to a limited number of states, so good luck in Oklahoma. If someone really wants one, the dealer will mark them up because of limited supply."

And, more importantly, you'll be buying it from a dealer not the manufacturer. So you'll be forced to choose from whatever options the dealer thinks people will want. Not necessarily the ones that the buyer actually wants.

akgolf | 26. Oktober 2016

@dsvick - Exactly. And the base Dolt will be a mythical beast that won't exist.

cpmarino | 26. Oktober 2016

@dsvick and @Frank99: My point is that Enhanced Auto Pilot and Self Driving are $8k to purchase today on the S/X. Adding $8k to a 70-120k car is still steep, but it's not the same as adding $8k to a $35k car. I can afford a $35k car, I would not pay $8k for those options, simply have no need for them. As such, you are correct in that I don't know the true incremental cost to Tesla, but given that they are charging $8k, I gotta believe the total cost to be $3k? $4k? Why would any company put an extra $4k in options on a car that the owner might not ever pay for? I get it that the volume of the S/X is so low, and the margins so high and the take rate being what it is why they would do that. But on the 3? Just doesn't make much business sense and I can't be the only one who can afford a $35k car or $45k with options but wouldn't want to spend another $8k on features I don't want, or can't afford. I understand that Tesla relies on data gathered, whether active or not, but lets say the take rate is 30% or 40% on the 3 ... that's still a ton of data gathering and in short order there will be more data gathered from the 3s than for the S/X combined just based on overall volume.

cpmarino | 26. Oktober 2016

Having said that, looking at other manufacturers, BMW sells a ton of fully optioned 3-series cars that broach the base price of the 5-series, but many folks would rather have a loaded 3 than a stripped-out 5, so I can definitely see folks who WOULD spend $60 or $70k on a Model 3 rather than buy a base S/X. I just can't see Tesla loading every 3 with this hardware unless it's paid for.

dsvick | 26. Oktober 2016

@cpmarino - "it's not the same as adding $8k to a $35k car."

True, but we don't know what they'll cost on the M3 yet. I wouldn't be too surprised though if the cost is the same as on the MS and MX. Since you're paying for the same thing, regardless of the platform, it should be the same cost.

"I just can't see Tesla loading every 3 with this hardware unless it's paid for."

Again, they've already stated that they are going to do this. Unless they are lying or they change their minds that's what's going to happen. It is possible that the cost of the hardware is more than a few hundred and they're counting on enough people taking the options to make it cost effective or, more likely, they sat down and figured out the hardware costs, the development costs, the future maintenance costs and the expected number of people who will take the option and came up with a reasonable price.

Badbot | 26. Oktober 2016

I am a senior. I do not want to be the guy doing 45 in the fast lane with the left blinker going from Ca to Fl.
I wanted self driving in case I get real bad as a driver.
I only have Social security, I am disabled, 35K is 40% of my life savings.
8 thousand dollars will push me out of the buyer pool.
all I can do is hope the price for options on the 3 will be adjusted to the base price.
Buyers of the S & X can afford 150,000 +
Most of the 3 buyers can not afford 50, 60, 70, 80 thousand dollars
I thought the mass market BEV 35,000 was the whole point of the roadster, S, X progression.

Badbot | 26. Oktober 2016

forget the government incentive, I do not have enough income to tax much less a tax bill over 7500 to be offset.

Red Sage ca us | 26. Oktober 2016

I figure option pricing for Model 3 will be adjusted proportionally due to base price point and economies of scale. So, not cheap, but certainly appropriate, fair, and worthwhile.

akgolf | 26. Oktober 2016

There's not another car in this price range with comparable features.

And how many cars can be upgraded after you purchase? Will make it very easy to resell.

brando | 26. Oktober 2016

reminder hardware, especially electronic hardware costs often drop faster than most imagine
Nvidia PX2 does 12,000,000,000,000 calculations per second. How is that possible?

Autonomous driving can only be proven safe through statistics. That means data and lots of it.
All of this data is the only practical method to tune the software, right?

So all the model ≡ operating in shadow mode (Elons words) gathering data could be accounted for as development costs of Autonomous Driving, right?

another reminder: Cost accounting is an art. Accounting is a man made game, ie nothing natural about it. Just look at Wall Street and the Banksters for dishonest examples, get it?

1- AP 2 hardware cost trends down.
2- Only way to prove safety to regulators is through statistics/data analysis.
3- Data needed for Development/bug fixes of Autonomous Driving.
(which is cheaper? Using beta testing Tesla owners? Hiring drivers to gather data? daaah)

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