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ICED at Super chargers

ICED at Super chargers

I know that Tesla will now access a charge on you if you leave your Tesla blocking a Super Charger stall ( I might add rightfully so). What I want to know is are they going to do anything about ICE cars using them as general parking (there is usually a sign there that states 30min general parking). I see this mostly in the chargers in hotel parking lots. At the one closest to me if you show up there say after 10pm on the weekends they will be blocked by ICE cars and more than likely those cars will be there all night. I think by just adding to the sign that violator's cars will be towed at owners expense would stop a lot of this abuse.
With the Model 3 soon to be on the roads, the demand on the Super Chargers will be even higher. Tesla talks about all the chargers they are adding but if they're blocked by ICE cars using them as a parking spot what's the point? I think this is an issue that Tesla needs to addressed before if becomes a major problem. Your thoughts??

tigardspaz | 04. Mai 2017

Deterrent for getting ICE'd: sugar in the gas tank.

DTsea | 05. Mai 2017

Eagles.... 250k in us by 2020?

What are you smoking?

You think US sales will only be 20% of Tesla sales? #stupid

Haggy | 05. Mai 2017

"Deterrent for getting ICE'd: sugar in the gas tank."

Deterrent for destroying a person's car for inconveniencing you: jail time,

Currently I've never seen a problem in California and would expect the same to be true nationwide once the number of cars is high enough that people recognize that the spaces are used for charging cars.

In some states, laws allow for them to be towed. Hotel owners might not like the idea of their guest's cars being towed, but it also comes down to what their agreement with Tesla allows.

I've read stories of arrogant ICE drivers who have said "I'm parking here and there's nothing you can do about it," only to have their cars towed away.

No_ICE | 06. Mai 2017

Would be nice if Tesla could make a SC cable extender that owners could purchase. This would enable owners to work around blocked chargers when necessary.

jefjes | 06. Mai 2017

@No_ICE
My exact same thought. It would probably be pricey since it would have to be big enough to handle the amp load. It would also require male and female Tesla ends that would utilize the existing supercharger male plug. Since these would probably only be purchased by a select few owners that travel frequently and have a need in the areas they have had problems, they would possibly only be made custom when requested. This could be a feasible aftermarket product if Tesla would be willing to sell the male and female connectors to make it happen.

Haggy | 11. Mai 2017

That's not quite the case though. If they are superchargers, chances are the guests charged on the way to the hotel, but even if they planned to arrive almost empty, it would take about an hour or less to charge on average, not overnight. Assuming that a customer plugged in, came back eight hours later, and it took only one hour to actually charge, that would be a $168 overage fee.

In real life, hotels with that sort of problem would have valets take care of the charging. If it cost them a single vacancy not to do so, that could be more than the cost of paying the night shift valet. But realistically if there would be so many guests that only 4% could charge, they'd lose far more than a single reservation so it's almost a definite that they would have destination chargers installed. Tesla would pay for the chargers, and the amount of electricity might be a couple of percent of the room charge at most. It would be cheaper than the cost of advertising.

dsvick | 11. Mai 2017

@Haggy - " Assuming that a customer plugged in, came back eight hours later, and it took only one hour to actually charge, that would be a $168 overage fee. "

That's a good point. Will there be idle fees at destination chargers? I know this is about ICEing but that would certainly solve it for other Teslas sitting there.

PBEndo | 12. Mai 2017

@Eagles
I disagree. As stated above, leaving your car plugged in at a Supercharger overnight will result in a significant fee. At a hotel Supercharger location, most would charge upon arrival and then move, or in the morning while eating breakfast. There may be peak times when the chargers are full but an 8 stall location could easily accommodate far more than 8 guests/night.
Alternatively, dozens of HPWC's could be installed at a hotel for the cost of a Supercharger.

SamO | 12. Mai 2017

8 stalls X 45 minutes/charge X 24 hours/day = 256 charge sessions available per day

massimob30 | 12. Mai 2017

City governments can pass ordinances that allow the vehicle to be towed.

That, or put a banana in their tailpipe.

Red Sage ca us | 12. Mai 2017

Mathematics are backed by logic, which always trumps lies supported by rhetoric.

tstolz | 12. Mai 2017

Icing is becoming really uncommon ... people by and large are not jerks. When the Red DeerAlberta Supercharger first opened, icing was common. Signs were put up, people learned, and I've never seen a problem in the past year. Non issue and easy to address in the trouble spots really.

Haggy | 12. Mai 2017

" When the Red Deer Alberta Supercharger first opened, icing was common. Signs were put up, people learned, and I've never seen a problem in the past year. "

You are talking about Canada though, where it's very bad form to be an inconsiderate blowhard asshat. I don't know if you heard, but the neighbors to the south aren't always as considerate.

Overage fees are for superchargers only, but hotels with destination chargers will handle things the same way they do with parking. In areas where it might be a problem, they will keep track of who needs to charge, and make sure it doesn't become a problem. If they need valets they will have valets.

Bighorn | 12. Mai 2017

I don't think cities can enact ordinances to enforce towing on private property, especially when the property owner is not in favor of towing their paying customers.

SamO | 12. Mai 2017

@Bighorn,

Cities MAY enact ordinances similar to Handicap parking ordinances which allow public reporting to police and towing at their direction, EVEN on private property.

There is no "taking" and public policy allows for states, counties and local governments to make policy for places like hotels, malls, restaurants or other privates spaces that are "public accommodation."

Getting the car disconnected is an entirely different matter.

finman100 | 12. Mai 2017

Chalk another one up for Canada.

I can only say the blowhard asshats here in the PNW, when approached sitting in their pick up trucks in front of a charging spot, with signs that say EV charging only, and with an non-enforced EV parking law on the books for over a year...they just say "I don't care" and throw their cigarette butts on the pavement at your feet. Then, after that, if they decide to move, they rev their engines, create big plumes of smoke (either diesel or tire rubber), and speed off to go block another EV charging spot.

Real stories out there. Happens way too often.

Yes, we are indeed "free" down here to do all of that. I don't get it.

http://pluginsites.org/statewide-anti-iceing-laws-in-effect-for-oregon-a...

Bluesday Afternoon | 12. Mai 2017

@finman100

I didn't find one Supercharger stall ICE'd on my recent trip through Oregon. I also didn't see many Teslas until Woodburn and maybe 1 traveling down your state's magnificent coastline. I did see a lot of gas station employees pumping gas into their customers cars. I do appreciate Oregon not requiring employees at Superchargers. :-)

finman100 | 12. Mai 2017

Sorry, I am referring to the "fast" charging single-stall 3rd party locations. The public parking lots, the back of the restaurant locations, behind locked dealer gates, etc. I've seen too much!

Tesla has a different (MUCH better!) game going. Not so much for us Leafers.

My issue is when there is but one spot, and it's ICED, I'm hunting for the next one. Or attempting to educate the un-teachables out there, so they don't keep blocking EV spaces.

Tesla has those multiple stalls per location and that is key.

finman100 | 12. Mai 2017

2018 (maybe even the end of 2017?!) soon, anyway, I'm hoping to put this all behind me. Trust me, very few would put up with the kind of "long-distance" charging that is the other guys' network(s). More range? Sure, that'd be nice, but, I need to know that when that long range runs out, I can charge and keep going.

Go Elon!

Bighorn | 12. Mai 2017

@SamO
I imagine those potential ordinances would have to counterbalance the ordinances already in place requiring a certain number of general spots based on square footage, occupancy, etc. I can foresee it being a hard sell to hotels, which already have a dearth of spots when they sell out, to hold spots empty for EVs that often don't show up more than one at a time most places, for the time being. With the onslaught of T3s, perhaps a different story:)

sbeggs | 12. Mai 2017

3s not Ts, please.

(I've got an eagle eye)

Bighorn | 12. Mai 2017

It was a joke:)

SamO | 12. Mai 2017

@Bighorn,

Nope. Some *cought PD cough* have spouted gibberish about spots per retail square foot, but states have the absolute authority to remove, change, modify, alter, amend or strengthen those requirements. Ordinances don't have to balance other automakers ordinances. Just superseded.

Now is there the will to make those statutes necessary to transition to sustainable transportation?

Not yet. Not everywhere.

PBEndo | 12. Mai 2017

@Eagles method
Make claim with faulty reasoning. Watch as others prove it to be false. Ignore logical reasoning and repeat false claim.

You could be President someday!

SamO | 13. Mai 2017

There may be 1,000,000 Tesla EVs by 2020 in the US, but I've always been a pessimist.

Iwantmy3 | 13. Mai 2017

#SamO

All we can hope is that;
A) Tesla will continue to grow their network at an acellerating rate the way they always have and,
B) the V3 superchargers will come out soon allowing for faster charge rates and more throughput per charger.

I have faith.

Red Sage ca us | 13. Mai 2017

I also hope that those 20+ States that continue to block direct sales by Tesla find there is increasing pressure on their Legislatures to change their franchise laws due to consumers noting it is only anti-competitive practices by 'independent franchised dealerships' that prevent them from getting their cars and protesting the status quo in great numbers. Sure, I believe that Tesla should win their Federal case against Michigan, and that should lead to opening direct sales in places like Texas and Missouri. But the franchise laws in States like Utah were a bit different and the courts there effectively said that it didn't matter if a law didn't make any sense or fulfill any good purpose -- that didn't automatically make it discriminatory.

finman100 | 15. Mai 2017

that wins the internet today, PBEndo! nice work.

PhillyGal | 17. Mai 2017

Education is key. I honestly just don't think people think about it.

Hey ICEr, would you park in front of a gas pump?
Uhhh, no.

Would you park in front of a gas pump if you knew that was the only pump for 200 miles?
Definitely not.

Haggy | 17. Mai 2017

I think it depends on the Supercharger station. At some of them, the charger is at the curb side of the space, the space has no special markings, and the car has to back into the space. Some have areas that don't look like parking spaces, are a solid color such as red, and the chargers are placed for cars to pull into the spaces, so it doesn't look or feel like a parking space. It becomes obvious that you are pulling in next to a device with a cord. Some are under a canopy.

Filling up a car with gas requires parking. I mean that literally. You need to turn off your ignition by law.

Red Sage ca us | 18. Mai 2017

It really will be nice when there are Tesla Waypoint/Depot locations that are dedicated strictly to electric vehicles. Places that are readily identifiable and not confused with gas stations at all. Clean, safe, well manicured sites that actually have lavatories, garbage cans, and window cleaning supplies. No chewing gum, cigarette butts, or oil slicks on the pavement. But, hopefully, without guys lounging about asking for a couple of bucks so they can just get a few of gallons of light to drive home on.

SamO | 18. Mai 2017

@Red Sage,

Looks like the dedicated Tesla "stations" with 30-50 Superchargers seems to be coming soon. Very much needed given the density of ownership in California.

Apparently Santa Monica is getting its very own Supercharger. Not sure where it will go.

Red Sage ca us | 18. Mai 2017

SamO: Idunno. I think the parking lot at the Denny's on 11th Street (Why did I think that was Lincoln?) & Colorado was pretty big last time I saw... But that was AGES ago. They'll probably try to get it into one of the parking structures closer to 2nd or 3rd Street though.

SamO | 18. Mai 2017

its just so f'ing busy there that I think something a bit further from the beach makes sense. Grocery store on Lincoln and Colorado across from Bay Cities Deli.

Or at the Civic Center on 4th near the Rand building.

Red Sage ca us | 19. Mai 2017

Heh. It'll be fun to just get out of the car, and set it on 'shark' mode... Hunting for a parking space on its own, autonomously, while you go about your business. If parking is still free in Santa Monica by then, it will be really cool to watch.

SamO | 20. Mai 2017

Nope. They get a big spankin' and have to go to bed with two spoons of castor oil.

SCCRENDO | 21. Mai 2017

@Eagles. Hope you learn some courtesy before you get your Model 3. You will accumulate the idling fees you deserve. I like to travel late at night and I would not be happy pulling into a supercharger at midnight or 1 AM just to find I cannot charge because people like you are too lazy to move your car. If you need to charge when you wake up pull up to the charger, have breakfast while you charge and be on your way.

tstolz | 21. Mai 2017

Eagles is just a very aggressive troll .. he is here to throw water on anything EV and has no intention of buying. You certainly will not see him at a Supercharger.

akgolf | 21. Mai 2017

Unless he's parking his Chevy Sonic there.

Red Sage ca us | 21. Mai 2017

"FUTURE TESTAMENT...? Activate 'SHARK MODE'. Meet me back here in 15 minutes."

Cleanup on aisle 2!

tstolz | 21. Mai 2017

On it

SCCRENDO | 21. Mai 2017

@Eagles. Are you actually going to purchase a Model 3 or just an asshole who trolls these boards? I have been around here for a while. 85S, Vin77xx, April 2013, 116k plus miles. In the early days most Tesla owners were cool people. But it is because of assholes like you that Tesla has done away with future unlimited free supercharging for life and idling fees. If you do purhase a Model 3 be sure to have your credit card on file so you can get to pay those overnight idling fees.

SamO | 21. Mai 2017

I went to the Hawthorne Supercharger today and got an update from the Supercharging Dashboard:

283 million kWh delivered.

#1 Busiest Supercharger
Mountain View, California
303 cars charged in last 24 hours
Average charge time 42 minutes

johnse | 22. Mai 2017

This issue reminds me of the early days of handicapped parking spaces. There were lots of people that ignored the signs and markings. Over time, it became much more recognized that the spaces were important and started getting the respect they deserved.

There are always going to be jerks--just like the ones who take up two spaces just so their precious car doesn't get dinged. But for the most part, as EVs become more common, people will see the reasons and ICEing will diminish.

SamO | 22. Mai 2017

283,000,000 miles/125,000 cars = 2,264 miles supercharged per Tesla

sbeggs | 22. Mai 2017

@SamO,
We've supercharged about 17,000 out of 27,000 on the odometer.

SamO | 22. Mai 2017

Correction: 2,264kWh/car = ~6700 miles

@sbeggs,

I've Supercharged about 30,000 out of 80,014 on the odometer. ;-)

sbeggs | 22. Mai 2017

@SamO,
How do you keep track?

SamO | 22. Mai 2017

Rough order of magnitude approximation based on my regular San Diego commute + coast to coast trip + Shasta + 14 LA to SF trips + Colorado trip + 22 LA to Vegas trips. :-)

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