I’m debating about getting the LR vs SR. I know it’s 9K but I’m wanting to keep this car for 10+ years. Thoughts?
LR since you’ll be keeping it for so long. If you’re within the window to receive tax credit, the net cost difference between the configurations could be just $1500 (assuming you are getting PUP either way).
If you plan on doing any longer road trips in the next 10+ years, I would highly recommend that you get the LR.
I recently drove up to Portland from the Bay Area with my 3 and the bigger battery allowed me to go around 75 mph ( where the efficiency is quite a bit worse than 65 mph) AND avoid having to charge the battery above 90% (where the charging rate) is pretty slow).
I suggest you play around with abetterrouteplanner.com. It shows the effect of speed, charging and battery size.
Of course, if you don't take long trips, get the SR.
If you're really going to keep it for 10 years, then absolutely the long range version. Have to take into account, battery degradation.
The Model 3 is so new, so don't know exactly what the degradation will be. My 2013 Model S, that was originally 265 new was down to 220 when I sold it in 2015. A 17% loss in just under 3 years. I have two 2015's, both are showing about a 10% loss in 2 years. The first year seems to be the worse, then the rate of degradation slows down. My guess after 10 years would be a 25-30% loss in usable range, cutting a SR from 220 to as low as 154 miles. If you live in a cold weather environment, your actual range will be around 20-30% less than that during the winter. So in 10 years, during cold months, you could be down to just over 100 miles in range. If that's enough for you and you know you'll never need to travel long distances, then the SR version will be fine. Otherwise, keeping a battery for that long, would highly recommend the long range version. The other option would be to replace the battery somewhere along the way. Assuming battery costs come down to the desired $100 per kWh in the next few years, then a SR battery could be as low as $5,000 in 5 or more years. Or there will likely be several salvaged vehicles that you could buy a battery from for less. Tesla won't warranty salvaged batteries being put in another car, but by that time, you'll be out of warranty anyway.
Key thing is knowing what the minimum range you'll need is. If you need an actual 200 miles of range regularly, the SR version will probably only get that for a year and only in ideal conditions while driving gently. If it's just a commuter car that you'll never travel with, SR will be more than enough.
Wow, your battery degradation seems high. I have a Nov 2015 S 70D. I haven't charged to 100% lately, but my normal 90% used to be 216 miles, now it is 213 occasionally I occasionally will see 214. Also most show that their cars have only lost about 5% and leveled off at that level. Curious why yours seems to be so high. Any ideas?
Some thoughts ... besides the obvious advantage of LR (i.e. you can drive farther on a full charge), there is also the advantage that it will charge faster. At home, it can accept up to 48A at 240V vs 32A for the SR, and the LR will also charge faster at superchargers (50% faster?). The faster charging combined with the longer range would make a big difference on road trips. Of course, if you don’t plan on road trips with your car, the SR will probably be fine.
You *may* also have a financial advantage to the LR via the tax credit if you live in the US. For myself, I think I can get the LR version while the $7500 credit is still active, but the delay in waiting for the SR would probably knock my credit down to $3750. That is definitely enough to push me towards the LR.
If you can afford the LR, get the LR. It will hold its value longer because over time as other companies switch their production lines to EVs, it will hold "relevant" for longer. The car will have a degrading battery, there is no way around that. Theres been a tsunami of arguments about how significant it is, but regardless its there. When your car starts to approach only being able to get 200 miles per charge, it starts to not really be relevant being that all while not EVERYONE can drive for 4 or 5 hours without stopping, if driving at 70mph thats less than 3 hours.
It will not only hold its relevance to You, but it will hold its value if you ever plan to sell it. I've also heard alot of stories here on the forums about the times when people have a 20mph headwind, and arrive at the supercharger with a dashboard range of 0 miles. You are never guaranteed the EPA range rating, being that everything you do inside the car (music, AC/heat, etc...) also takes up more energy. The elements also have an effect, and i could go on and on and on. If you can afford it, you will never wish you hadnt.
As stated above go LR, I was sold on short range being enough until about December, so I'm glad I wasn't Invited in Nov/Dec because I would have deferred for SR. I also plan on owning 10+ years, if a mustang & accord can last me 12yrs, don't see why I should expect less. In 10 years 400+ miles will be common and a tempting upgrade if you are down to 160 miles at 80% charge (200 at 100%), but with LR you should be close to 230+ still at 10% degradation and 80% charge on the LR battery. Also will save you time on road trips, I also expect a decent chance at going from $7500 tax credit to only $3750 if I do wait for SR battery.
+1 on the long range. I don't need it and "range anxiety" is mostly only a thing that happens before you actually own a Tesla but I still recommend it if you plan to keep the car long term. Not so much for degradation sake, which is minimal (and may be overstated by the imperfect algorithms that estimate how many miles you have on a charge) but for the inevitable long trips where just a little more range can save you time.
SR. It has plenty of range for every day. When you drive long distance, rent an ICE. It'll cost a lot less than $9,000, and you won't waste your vacation waiting for hours at superchargers.
On the other hand, the more people we convince to get the short-range battery the more deferments there will be, and we will all get bumped up higher on the list.
But I guess that's a selfish way of looking at it.
I am definitely going with the long-range battery. More is always better.
Unless you're renting the ICE for the single day of travel, and then you dont have a vehicle when you reach your destination, renting an ICE for long distance travel for 10 years of ownership could not possibly be less expensive than $9k.
Imagine taking an Uber to work every day instead of buying a car. How long would that last?
@phil - hahaha, try saying that after you've owned a Model 3 for a while. Driving an ICE will be worse than a root canal.
Hey - I take personal exception to that root canal comment :0 I can confirm that root canals are rarely painful, but after driving my S for 1 year, driving my Ford Expedition was beyond painful, in fact, so much pain, that I hurt my wallet even more to get the Model X :)
But I was going to say exactly what PhillyGal said, she just beat me to it, except for the root canal part :)
Get the LR. The Bolt supposedly has a bigger battery and greater range than the SR Model 3, and I already wish it had more.
In 5 years, nobody's going to want a sub-200 mile range car IMHO. And, in 5 years, that's what you're going to have.
Here's an article I wrote a few months ago on which battery to pick that may help too: https://teslatap.com/articles/selecting-the-right-battery-size/
I was originally sold on the SR model, but I'm thinking about the long term and will be getting the LR model. I plan on keeping this car for 7-10 years [heck, I'll keep it for life -- it might be a collector's item ;)]
andy.connor.e | January 11, 2018 "Unless you're renting the ICE for the single day of travel, and then you dont have a vehicle when you reach your destination, renting an ICE for long distance travel for 10 years of ownership could not possibly be less expensive than $9k."
Sure it would. For me, and for lots of people. I drive around town every day, and at most once a year take a trip of a few days and a few hundred miles. Airplanes are faster.
In fact, what I do on my infrequent road trips is to load the family into my wife's SUV. Model 3 is too small for a long family trip anyway. So yes, WAY less than $9k, and way less charging hassle. I like electric, but for long distance, ICE still rules.
PhillyGal | January 11, 2018 "@phil - hahaha, try saying that after you've owned a Model 3 for a while. Driving an ICE will be worse than a root canal."
Oh, come on. I've driven many thousands of EV miles, including Tesla, and they are great. But I'm not a fanatic, and I still love my old Lexus.
You're creating reasons why to not drive. Then creating reasons why you wouldnt take a sedan. When your initial statement was why not to get the LR battery. When from what it seems, you have enough reasons to not even use the car in general for long trips. So just say that and dont make it about the battery size.
"I can get SR because i would either fly, or take the family SUV because we need the space. M3 is too small for family trips"
"That was easy" - Staples™
A perspective I haven't seen yet: Batteries will get cheaper and better. This will be our first so our plan is to get SR for now. We use the Corolla for the few long trips and when the Corolla poops out, we get a newer Tesla (Y) with (cheaper) longer range for the replacement.
You are correct @bill. But the idea is to not have a reason to spend money in 10 years.
Andy, understood, but we will never have only one car, so drive the wheels off the ICE and then get the long range EV seams reasonable for me. Anyway, great discussion thread and thanks for coming back to the forums!
Arg. "Seems". Typos are so embarrassing.
Andy - I already told you elsewhere - my Staples button is not working :)
needs a Tesla battery
LR that is too :)
Sorry to divert the thread, need a good break and laugh every so often. :)
Its a necessary feature of using the forums. Every topic needs it after a while, thanks :)
LR gives better performance too. After three years with the Model S and 50,000 miles, I've lost about 7 miles of range. Range loss might not be an issue, but the LR battery gives you more flexibility. Within days of getting the 3, my wife was visiting relatives, went on an impromptu trip with some out of town guests from there, and by the time she was back home she was down to about 40 miles. She could have managed with a supercharger, and I can't argue that saving a fraction of an hour was worth $9000, but if you have it, it will be more convenient at times.
In a decade or less we will be able to remove the legacy motive and energy storage hardware from any vehicle and retrofit a smallish appliance that provides both in an integrated package. The device will be branded “Mr. Nuclear”.
Sorry, Mr. Fusion.
All EV family for one year. I just took a 4 day trip to see family. 540 miles each way. We have a short range EV and a Model X 60D. We decided to spend $200 plus for rental and gas. We saved 2.5-3 hours each way since we ate in the rental car. We probably would have taken the X if we had an extra day. I figured a Model 3 LR would have only lost about one hour to the rental. An SR 3 probably would have lost 2. We took a 500 trip in the X last summer. Nobody complained about stopping to charge. We were not on a schedule so it was a little different mindset.
One funny comment from my son when we stopped at a gas station: “Daddy, is this where we charge the car?”
Thanks guys and gals. I think if I can put 18000 down on the car then I can afford the LR payments. I’ll be car for honestly longer than 10 years. More like 15-20 so I think the LR would help.
Also my wife and I live in Atlanta and frequently drive to North Georgia and Florida. I looked and charging only once or not at all bi-weekly would be most easier on trips.
Besides the lost range from age you also don't have 220 when charging to 80% (176) and if you never want to take the car below 10% that is another 22 miles for a range of 154. I will be getting the long range as I live in a cold climate and even though on average day I travel less than 75miles it's having the extra power incase there is a big accident and can't move I will still have heat in the car. So in the summer I would charge to 80% (248) but in the winter I think I would change it to 90% (279) because of the extra draw on the battery from the heater.
No brainer if you want to keep for 10 years ==> go LR!