I have a P85 and I used to get 242 miles after a standard charge. Now after the 4.5 (1.33.44) update if I slide the scale to the indentation where "Daily" ends and "Trip" starts I only get 212 miles of charge. I understand that charging up to the indentation between where Daily ends and Trip starts is same as the previous "Standard" charge. I do not have any percentage indication unlike some folks who have been posting about the 4.5 update. I just returned from the San Rafael service department and Matt there had no idea about this. I then called Tesla directly and the lady who answered could not help me. So, who are we supposed to turn to for these ongoing problems. It seems like every update is a step forward and two back. I had a problem with 4.4 update too and my car was sitting in the San Rafael service department for a week while I was driving an Enterprise rental. So far I have had to take my car into Fremont and San Rafael service departments 6 different times for various issues since we took delivery last November. They were able to fix most of the problems but many updates to the car remain unresolved and now with every over the air update new issues crop up. I know posting on these threads about any problems brings the wrath of TSLA stockholders and EV fanatics who are going to point to ICE cars with problems. On the other hand I for one have never had so many problems with any make of car let alone one costing over a hundred grand. Elon wants the owners of present Model S to be goodwill ambassadors for Tesla and sell these Teslas to our friends and neighbors but on the other hand he has admitted that "service is not up to par". They need to do something soon or once the word starts spreading about the unreliability and poor service at Tesla, it will cause irreparable damage to the brand in the long run. I know many are going to jump up and say that they have not had any issues or problems but there are many of us who have. Tesla needs to be more responsive to those of us who have problems with their cars.

J.T. | 10. Juni 2013

What the TSLA stockholders and EV fanatics will want is for you to post this as a private thread to confirm your bonafides.

Tâm | 10. Juni 2013

Hi nvjx:

When in doubt, ask your Tesla nuts, not workers :)

I don't know how they define "standard" previously and now: that's why you see there's a difference.

You just need to slide it more for your desired previous 242 miles and keep it there as "standard."

If you believe the update somehow damaged your battery, just Max Charge and you'll see it's pretty much as before.

nvjx | 10. Juni 2013

Here we go again!

nvjx | 10. Juni 2013

Tam, If I slide it into Trip then it is the same as charging in Range previously. And by the way thanks for the suggestion Tesla nut.

Bob W | 10. Juni 2013

The battery percentages are indicated by little vertical bars, as on a ruler. Each mark is 10%. The "Daily" range is from 50 to 90%. 80% of 265 = 212 so perhaps you had it set to 80% instead of 90%?

Try moving it to the minimum value just within the "Trip" area, and report your results after charge complete. You're not going to hurt anything by charging your battery to 91% one time.

FYI, as covered by other threads (and the release notes), they've recalculated range after a "standard charge" now (though they didn't explain how). What does your trip meter show as your long term average Wh/mile? You'd have to average 308 WH/mile to get EPA rated range (pretty hard for most of us to do).

Please list all the problems that you had that took 6 different trips to get resolved.

mrspaghetti | 10. Juni 2013

Yes, I'm sure the latest update FRIED your battery. This is a HUGE<\b> problem and will bankrupt Tesla!! SELL, SELL!!!

Or wait, maybe it's a completely meaningless change in how miles are calculated and displayed. Hm, weird.

mrspaghetti | 10. Juni 2013

Actually I think my basic HTML skills are a bigger problem...

nvjx | 10. Juni 2013

Bob W, thanks for your suggestion. From beginning to the end of "Daily" there are 5 indentations. I set the slider to the last (5th) one in the "Daily" range and got 212 Rated miles. There are only 2 indents in "Trip". One in the beginning and one at the end. You can stop the slider anywhere in between. I plan on sliding the slider all the way to the end of "Trip" tonight and see what "Rated" miles I get on a full charge. One of my Trip Odometer hasn't been touched since I got the car and with just under 7000 miles it shows an average of 323 Watts. By the way until I updated to 4.5 I was consistently getting 240-242 Rated miles after a standard charge. As for what problems I have had with the car, I have six repair orders listing them all. Some of the problems were doors opening on their own even after being locked (the car had to go in several times until they finally replaced all the handles with new ones), front end alignment, problems with tilt wheel, right door not shutting unless slammed several times, rear hatch and passenger door alignment etc. etc.

nvjx | 10. Juni 2013

As for mrspaghetti besides HTML you also need to work on your sense of humor.

defmonk | 10. Juni 2013


mrspaghetti | 10. Juni 2013

To paraphrase from another poster in another thread a while back:

List of Important Problems:
1. World Hunger
2. War
3. Terrorism
899,826,112,182,456,560,204. My sense of humor
899,826,112,182,456,560,205. Your displayed range changing with 4.5

nvjx | 10. Juni 2013

All right mrspaghetti you are very funny indeed!

Longhorn92 | 10. Juni 2013

@nvjx: the percentages don't show on v4.5 (1.33.44), but they did show on an earlier version of 4.5 (1.33.38 and possibly 1.33.43). I think if you slide to the first indent of Trip, then you'll likely get 90% charge which will only be slightly less than your standard charge before (I think standard was 92% or something like that).

nvjx | 10. Juni 2013

Thanks Longhorn92, first I am going to do a max charge tonight and see how close to a Rated charge of 265 can I get. By the way did you go to U of Texas? My nephew did his MBA there and he is a die hard Longhorns fan. He is on the wait list for a Model X for his wife. I am trying to talk him out of his CLS but its a tough sell.

Mark Z | 10. Juni 2013

I have charged to the iPhone app "Standard" setting with 4.5 and get 234. It can vary a bit, but with 9000 miles on the P85 Model S, the new update is working fine. (Now what about that fan noise?)

brdunton | 10. Juni 2013

4.5 is very bad right now. I (apparently along with many others) had the updated 4.5 sent over the weekend. My install went sideways, and my car is currently in the shop being jacked into by a crack team in Freemont, CA trying to figure out what went wrong! The service center was not able to restore and reset the update, leaving it up to the folks at HQ to figure out what is wrong. I am not alone in this issue. So right now I am driving an Enterprise Toyota Corolla! UGG!

Robert22 | 10. Juni 2013

I think Hell must have a new definition for Model S owners:

Fleets of fully fueled Enterprise Toyota Corollas. 0-60 in....Ack!

Brian H | 11. Juni 2013

"My Sideways Update"

nvjx | 11. Juni 2013

On the recommendation of a person at Tesla service 800 # I did a max "Trip" charge on the car last night. I have a Nema 14-50 outlet and a single charger. I set it to start charging at 4 AM this morning and around 9AM it had maxed out to 260 miles. The only other time I did a max "Range" charge was a few months ago at Fremont service dept (they accidentally charged it to max range instead of standard) and at that time it showed a range of 267 miles. This morning the person at Tesla told me the engineer says it is the 4.5 update and did not know if and when this problem would be corrected. So, in my car the previous Standard charge gave me 240-242 miles and now post 4.5 update the max Daily charge gives me 212 but the max Trip charge goes up to 260.

As for driving Enterprise rentals I have gone through that 5 times (My car has been to service 6 times since taking delivery in Nov 2012). The first time I sat in the service dept waiting room all day!

Tâm | 11. Juni 2013


Sorry that you were caught off guard but your concern has been well addressed since 05/12/2013, that's thirty days ago, not by Tesla bees but by Non-Tesla employees like you and me at:

"Charge Limit - Standard and Max Range have been replaced by a slider that let's you choose what % you want to charge the car to. For daily driving, choose between 50% and 90% to improve battery longevity. Anything above 90% is the equivalent of Max Range. 90% might give you a different range than 'Standard' used to."

nvjx | 11. Juni 2013

Tam, thanks for your help but I was just told by a Tesla service rep at their 800# that the 4.5 firmware is defective and they are working on resolving the issues which will be addressed in the next firmware.

David Trushin | 11. Juni 2013

I've been wondering why they put that slider in at all. It doesn't seem to be useful at all.

stimeygee | 11. Juni 2013

I still don't think you're having an actual problem whether its defective software or not. It sounds like the battery is the same as before (260 vs 267 could be a slightly varied readings on the overall state of charge, battery temp, etc.) Whereas the difference between 242 and 212 is almost certainly about where you are placing the slider, not any actual difference in the battery or range.

Could be wrong but that's what it sound like to me.

Captain_Zap | 11. Juni 2013

The battery is happiest when it holds a charge in mid range and it extends battery life.

For routine around town driving we charge to about 60% and use a lower charge rate at night. We increase the settings for weekends.

I have an 85kWh so there is flexibility, I suppose.

bp | 12. Juni 2013

David, I am also curious about the charge slider.

If the slider was put in to help extend battery life, this is going to make managing the charging much more complicated - trying to estimate the next day's range, and adjusting the charge accordingly. The recommended charging practice in the owners manual is very simple and straightforward - use max range occasionally, otherwise use standard and keep the car plugged in when possible. But if we're now recommended to optimize the daily charging, that's much more complicated and risks creating the impression that regularly using the "standard" range degrades the battery faster.

On the other hand, the slider could be useful if it is to limit the charging being done at for-pay charging stations. If you only need a partial charge - you can tell the car to stop early - and limit how much it costs to "refuel" the battery.

However, the new feature that uses shore power for the accessories may defeat that - because even after the charging is finished, the car might still be pulling a small load from the charger - so it may not really ever stop 'charging'.

Would be very useful for Tesla to explain why we should be using the slider - and the recommended practice for managing the battery...

nvjx | 12. Juni 2013

+1 bp

Tâm | 12. Juni 2013

I am a Tesla nut, not an expert, but this is my speculation:

Elon stated that it is best to leave your battery pack around 50%.

Previously, “standard” charge was set at slightly more than 90%

The slider seems to reflect what Elon stated, so it no longer defaults to 90% any more but lower.

That does not mean you have to set it lower than 90% all the time.
Since Tesla battery pack is well conditioned, even because of your needs and you have to charge above 50%, the premature degradation should be tiny.

The slider is there to adjust to your needs, and you are not to be worried about the percentage any more.

That means, don’t sweat on small stuff anymore unless you purposefully destroy the battery with a blow torch! Enjoy your freedom, embrace your slider!

RedShift | 12. Juni 2013

Mine dropped from 190 std to 184 std after 4.5 update. So, I range charged for a road trip last weekend, lo and behold , max was 210, unchanged from before. (I have a 60)

Nvjx, I'd stop worrying and wait for 4.5 rerelease. (When is that coming out....)

sia | 12. Juni 2013

Our car was delivered with version 4.5. At a Charge Limit of 90%, it charges to 242-243 rated miles.

I think the Charge Limit slider is very useful, if you believe that 50% state-of-charge is optimal for the battery life.

Based on our maximum expected usage pattern, we set our Charge Limit to 80% during the workweek, and 90% for the weekend, and 100% for the occasional long trip.

I agree that these steps are not totally necessary, but why not take the small steps that extend battery life. We may even reduce the workweek Charge Limit to 70%.

SCCRENDO | 12. Juni 2013

Not sure we are talking about the same thing and not sure it really matters as long as you know your car but my car shows ideal rather than rated miles. Have never max charged but used to get 270-274 miles on a standard charge before the update. Without adjusting the slider I now get around 258 ideal miles after the update. My iphone ap always reads less. e.g at 258 miles on my car it reads 232 on the phone. i wonder if these are the rated miles rather than ideal miles. was never sure why the discrepancy.

nvjx | 12. Juni 2013

RedShift | JUNE 12, 2013
Mine dropped from 190 std to 184 std after 4.5 update. So, I range charged for a road trip last weekend, lo and behold , max was 210, unchanged from before. (I have a 60)

Nvjx, I'd stop worrying and wait for 4.5 rerelease. (When is that coming out....)

RedShift, 4.5 has been out for a while and from what I have read on various threads this is the version causing all kinds of problems for folks - from fan noise behind the 17'' screen, different settings for Drive and Park etc on Display screen to lower Rated miles like mine. I had 240-242 Rated miles on the old Standard charge until the 4.5 update came along and now I have 212 on the last indent of the new Daily setting. The Tesla techs had me do a max Trip charge and my P85 showed a Rated range of 260 - a drop of 7 miles from previous 267 so there is nothing wrong with the battery. It is the new software 4.5 which is showing a totally different readings than before. They told me 4.5 was causing problems and they were working on a new update!

sia | 12. Juni 2013

@nvjx: Sorry to hear you are having problems with 4.5.

As another data point, I also have version 4.5 (1.33.44) that came pre-installed with my car (12 days ago), and I don't have any of problems mentioned here.

I wonder if the pre-installed version behaves differently than the 4.5 update.

TFMethane | 15. Juni 2013

Much of this confusion might be avoided if they displayed the battery % charge (or remaining kWh) in addition to the rated range on the dashboard. Then you would have seen the 90% drop to 80% after the 4.5 upgrade, and you would have realized that it was just set to charge 10% less. You would have immediately and intuitively understood what was going on without creating this thread.

I agree Tesla needs to have a documentation team and post the freaking documentation about these updates, rather than let us all wonder and figure it out together.

Also, I'm surprised to hear about the other crappy loaner cars. I thought they were going to give everybody lease teslas as loaners if their cars are in the shop.

Also, sorry to hear about all the maintenance issues... As a stockholder who bought at 95, that makes me nervous.

bp | 15. Juni 2013

What I've noticed is that if I'm out at the car right around when it finishes charging, it's showing 241-242 rated range. But when I get to the car hours later, the charge level has dropped into the 230s.

There are a number of improvements that should be provided by Tesla for this feature:

They should make it clear the recommended charging strategy. The original recommendation was to use max charge infrequently, and to charge to standard almost all of the time, leaving the car plugged in when possible. Hopefully the new policy is to charge anywhere within the 50-90% range, leaving the car plugged in whenever possible, and to charge above 100% infrequently.

They should display the % and rated range, plus provide a way to easily set the charge limit to a specific % or rated range.

They should have a button on whether the change is for all charges, only for that location, for a specific time period, or for only the current charge.

Assuming that charging 50-90% is safe for the battery, then this feature seems more oriented to controlling how much electricity is being used for charging - to limit costs when charging at locations or during times or at for-pay stations. If you're paying more for the charging - then limiting the re-charge only to what you need is a really good feature.

Tesla - please help us out - and explain why this feature has been added...

herkimer | 15. Juni 2013

I have 4.5 and have received updates. No problems at all. Percentage of charge shows if you click on the little battery on the touch screen. It shows all you need to know: you can set the charge limit, rate of charge (amps) and the time of charging. Even shows on the smartphone app. What is the problem again? There are ideal vs rated miles, you can choose 100 vs 90 vs 80% or less charge. Its all in your hands. If you need to get a full charge set to full charge or put in Range Mode. If you are not going more than 200 miles, why worry about it? Charging to 80 or 90% helps preserve battery life. There is nothing mysterious here, very straightforward.

justineet | 15. Juni 2013

@imherkimer....good idea, set the charging to 80% Max as a default. When traveling long distance set it to 90 or 100% charge...full or near full charge will be needed probably only 10% of the time for most people...

Brian H | 15. Juni 2013

Since you'd have to store the battery for months at 100% to harm it, your concerns are misplaced and pointless.

justineet | 15. Juni 2013

@Brian H....why charge it 100% when u rarely need 100% charge?? I think ur assertion is unwise.....

DouglasR | 15. Juni 2013

Brian is giving instructions for harming your battery.

Brian H | 15. Juni 2013

Nope. Read

Rule #1 – Use Range Mode
Never, ever hestitate to use Range Mode. Ever.
Yes, there is a warning on the touchscreen about battery lifetime, but IMHO that warning is overstated. Tesla doesn’t want you leaving the car in Range mode for months at a time, because that will slightly increase the rate of degradation of the battery pack. We’re talking months here, not hours!
A few hours at 100% charge has NO measurable impact on battery pack lifetime, and may actually improve battery pack balance.

cerjor | 20. Juni 2013

I did an experiment with charging using the slider in 4.5 on my 85KwHr car. The slider has a number of marks so I charged several times moving the slider to different marks.

Full (all way to right) = 265 miles
Next mark = 231
Next mark = 198
Next mark = 171
Next mark = 145

Now I can decide how far I am going to drive and set it accordingly.

AmpedRealtor | 20. Juni 2013

@ Brian H - the advice you shared is not coming from Tesla Motors or any of their employees. You are linking and quoting someone's opinion at I will take my advice on the battery from Tesla, thank you very much.

Brian H | 20. Juni 2013


wheatcraft | 20. Juni 2013

My P85 charges up to around 230-240, just the same as it did before 4.5. And I haven't had any problems with the 4.5 release. Also, just to be clear, when I set it to 100%, I get the expected 265-270. The actual point at which the charge stops varies a few percent each time, but that is to be expected with standard measurement uncertainty.

richard_grenier | 26. August 2013

This thread has been enormously useful to me. The management processor in my 2013 MS must have just now gotten the "memo" (SW update) because I've had 4.5 now for a few weeks and just this weekend noticed my charge (complete) drop from ~235 to 210, and I was charging it daily and has never moved the slider (8 weeks old, 1200 miles now). Then again I woke up that morning and found all the windows down as well. Spooky. So - why does the number "300 miles range" stick in my head? All sliders aside, the default setting used to be 80%, and I was originally getting ~235-240 miles full stop. Good to go. Now it's 210. Have the Teslonians decided to artificially constrain the "full" charge to a newly rated 265 miles, or was it always so?

sarahbrewis0 | 27. August 2013

It's always been 265 to 270 at 100% charge if you put your display mode on 'Rated'. If you put it on 'Ideal' it is 300.

A 80% charge is indeed 210, but that's not the "default" setting. The default setting from the factory is 90%, which gives you 233 rated.

Maybe you bumped the setting from 90% to 80%?

Brian H | 27. August 2013

The default changed, but you can set it to your preference now.

richard_grenier | 27. August 2013

Yes - I may have previously been in "Ideal" mode, now rated. That explains it. But Brian may also be correct here as yesterday I did move the slider to "90%" for the first time (I know of) and now I'm getting 233, as you've stated.

So - looking through the earlier history on this thread, is the battery life "better preserved" long term if we set the slider to ~70% now for daily use (vs. 90%), or does it matter?

Thank you both for enlightening me on this!

Brian H | 27. August 2013

300 miles is the original EPA 2-cycle (city/hwy) test result. The 265 is the 5-cycle result. The slider simply allows you to set the default %.