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S owners charging network

S owners charging network

I'm wondering if Tesla owners might create a volunteer network that would allow other Tesla owners to charge up. This would be offered as a backup safety net in case one got caught with a low battery. For example I would be willing to allow other Tesla owners to charge using the connection at my home if it was urgently needed. This network would act as a bridge until more charging options become available. Any interest out there?

Volker.Berlin | 14. August 2011

At least in Germany, an idea like that has already been around since 2006. They actually take it one step further and have implemented a charging network that is explicitly not just for emergency charging. Anybody who offers a "Drehstromkiste" that is accessible for the public, receives a key in return that works for all other "Drehstromkisten" that have already been installed (around 200 units so far). "Billing" is based on fairness, you just leave an approximate amount after charging, which eliminates the need for expensive and complicated billing and administration.

For more information, go on reading here (German only):
http://www.drehstromkiste.de/

adlink | 03. Oktober 2011

I would be interested.

Williamsburg, VA

Brad Holt | 04. Oktober 2011

Yeah I think that sounds like a great idea. Even if it's just City/Phone# that'd be pretty darn helpful!

GJamrok | 04. Oktober 2011

A couple Roadster owners I have talked to at various Model-S events have offered as much.

I think this is a great idea and maybe it could be done through regional Model-S clubs.

VolkerP | 04. Oktober 2011

Regrettably, Tesla has put in serious obstacles to that idea. The on board AC charging unit is limited to 10kW. It takes hours to get a considerable amount of charge in your Model S with the UMC 2.0.

If a home owner invests in the new HPC 2.0, charging is possible with 20kW - but only for Model S equipped with one additional on board charger.

Fast charging requires a Tesla DC charging unit, providing 90kW but requiring 120A three phase AC input that is not available in U.S. residential areas.

The high power AC outlets provided by drehstromkiste, zero carbon network (UK), RWE (DE), TEXX energy (CH), or NLaad (NL) chargers are near-to useless for Model S since it doesn't make use of three phase or high power AC.

Charging at home will require hours, so better plan to host your fellow model S drivers for a meal and/or a bed.

CyberBen_Quebec | 04. Oktober 2011

I'll gladly let any interested EV owner charge up using my hydro electric powersource if you visit us up north in Quebec City! We have to help the system until we can rely on more available source of charging.

Another way we can help (as I'm currently doing) : I'm currently relocating my offices and I explicitly required that the building be outfitted with two 240V EV charging stations reserved for EV owners or I wouldn't even consider the office space. You should have seen the face of the guy, he said this was a company first as nobody ever required something like that and they don't even have any charging station in their flagship GOLD LEED building build last year. And yet this company has over 250 buildings, imagine what we can make happen. I even did the research for him and pointed toward coming government programs and manufacturers of outdoor charging stations.

Let's lead the way and influence in any way we can.

Ben

Robert.Boston | 04. Oktober 2011

@VolkerP: I'm in complete concord with your concerns. Tesla is being unusually short-sighted in its charging decision. The long-term success of EVs depends on the development of a common infrastructure for charging, just as much as the gas station (and common standards for gasoline) moved ICE vehicles forward. The beta Model S apparently forecloses use of many public charging stations. How can this be good?

Robert.Boston | 04. Oktober 2011

@VolkerP: I'm in complete concord with your concerns. Tesla is being unusually short-sighted in its charging decision. The long-term success of EVs depends on the development of a common infrastructure for charging, just as much as the gas station (and common standards for gasoline) moved ICE vehicles forward. The beta Model S apparently forecloses use of many public charging stations. How can this be good?

Timo | 04. Oktober 2011

@VolkerP "Regrettably, Tesla has put in serious obstacles to that idea. The on board AC charging unit is limited to 10kW."

How can that be? The engine is producing three-phase AC power when using regen braking and I bet that produces a lot more than 10kW. Using that with right frequency after voltage change should allow hundreds of amps of charging. That shouldn't be too hard to implement (you just need to bring the socket voltage in right range for that "charger").

Leofingal | 05. Oktober 2011

I am on board. I can offer a charger and multiple bedrooms for anyone passing through Rochester, NY. I'd just ask for a meal out in exchange, and I can drive since your car will be charging :)

BruceR | 05. Oktober 2011

Join Plugshare and help all EVangelist....
(www.plugshare.com for details)

Volker.Berlin | 21. Oktober 2011

The PlugShare app allows iPhone, iPad, iPod and Android users to share "outlets." Members can share high-speed J1772 plugs or standard 120-volt outlets.
http://green.autoblog.com/2011/10/20/plugshare-getaround-offer-special-d...

jackhub | 23. Oktober 2011

My local power company has been in touch with Tesla and they suggest I install a 240 volt, single phase, 90 amp circuit for charging the Model S. According to Tesla's web site, the charging would be at the rate of 62 miles range capacity per hour. That would certainly give us time to get to know one another!

Larry Chanin | 23. Oktober 2011

Jack,

You would have twice as much time to get to know one another if your visitor happened to have the just the standard 10kW onboard charger.:-) 9.6 hours to fully charge a 300 mile battery pack.

Larry

VolkerP | 24. Oktober 2011

@Timo

How can that be? The engine is producing three-phase AC power when using regen braking and I bet that produces a lot more than 10kW. Using that with right frequency after voltage change should allow hundreds of amps of charging. That shouldn't be too hard to implement (you just need to bring the socket voltage in right range for that "charger").

Trying to give a brief overview here.

Tesla has separated the on board charger from the PEM. The PEM does regen but is not capable to process 1-phase or 3-phase input. The built-in on board charger is limited to 10kW 1-phase 40A@240V.
The new UMC 2.0 is appropriate to feed that charger from any outlet up to NEMA 14-50.

A second on board charger is available as an option. The two units team up and accept 80A@240V single phase. Splitting up the phases is not possible.
A tesla HPC 2.0 is required to provide these 80A. The HPC is wall mounted and hooked up to a 240V circuit with 90A or 100A breaker. This combination will charge at 62 mph.

No more than 2 on board charging units fit inside Model S due to space and thermal constraints.

Tesla announced fast DC charging with 90kW. The charger consists of 9x the 10kW unit. It is widely assumed that it will be powered by 3-phase 400V AC.

This is information from Tesla given to visitors of the Oct 1 event.

Timo | 24. Oktober 2011

They do not use the PEM, but wouldn't it be very easy to make it accept other inputs than the engine? I would like to think so. It does have three-phase input from engine, which means that nearly all that is required is to draw cables to "replace" engine with external three-phase source.

VPLACE | 27. Oktober 2011

Does anyone know if Tesa's Model-S GPS will provide displays for re-charging locations ....in the future??
That would be a great anxiouty (sp?) relief for traveling long distances!

Volker.Berlin | 28. Oktober 2011

It has not been explicitly said, but I'd be willing to bet on it. With full-screen map support in an EV, showing charging locations seems a no-brainer. Even ICEs can do that (with gas stations, obviously).

Green Car Reports recently reviewed five charging location apps for your smart phone. Something like that is bound to show up on the Model S' integrated 17" touch screen:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1067476_how-far-left-on-my-leaf-elec...

Vawlkus | 28. Oktober 2011

The hard part of that will be getting the list for the car to display. Short of the driver visiting, and "marking" the locations as battery charging locations, it will depend on someone actually getting all charging locations together into one list, not the several lists there are right now.

Mycroft | 28. Oktober 2011

Vawikus, that's where social apps shine! The whole EV community would keep it current.

VolkerP | 28. Oktober 2011

Not required to rely on people doing this. Every EV could send a short GSM text to some open charge point database:
"charged at GPS 123:456, from 2AM to 3AM. 400V DC. I requested 50kW but EVSE maxed out at 43kW. Got 38kWh. Charging stopped when full | driver requested stop | EVSE blew it | dunno. Asked driver if this was public EVSE but no response."
The database would quickly fill up and help finding WORKING charge points (not dismantled, not out of service).
The EVSE protocol should be augmented for V2G communication and billing information, so the information in the database becomes even more useful for grid operators, charge point operators, drivers, and so on.

ncn | 29. Oktober 2011

"My local power company has been in touch with Tesla and they suggest I install a 240 volt, single phase, 90 amp circuit for charging the Model S."

OK, this is useful information. However, I *still* can't install it until Tesla makes an official pronouncement regarding what HPC they are making available. *sigh*

BTW, Leofingal, glad to know there will be someone in Rochester planning to get a model S HPC. This could help a lot with road trips....

"A tesla HPC 2.0 is required to provide these 80A. The HPC is wall mounted and hooked up to a 240V circuit with 90A or 100A breaker. "

"This is information from Tesla given to visitors of the Oct 1 event."

But apparently not sufficiently final that they're willing to put it in print, which makes me distrusting.

I am waiting to decide whether to get an HPC until there is some final information on details and pricing. The annoying part is that I have to rewire my garage either way (it currently has minimal electrical service), and I'd rather get this all done before the car arrives.

Mycroft | 29. Oktober 2011

I'm planning on installing a 30 amp dryer receptacle initially. That's going to be my standard overnight charging source inside the garage. Then, after I get around to purchasing the HPC, I'll run the cable and mount it just outside the garage door (properly weatherproofed of course). That way I can use it when I'm in a hurry (rare) and travelers will be able to charge up quickly. I'll have a donation box next to it. :-)

ncn | 30. Oktober 2011

Hmmm. I might aim for something similar to what you're doing, Mycroft (though I'd go with a NEMA 14-50 campground outlet for myself).

I really would rather do all my wiring at once though. The wires have to punch through the insulation envelope of my house at the *same place* for the exterior and interior runs (the garage isn't insulated, the room with the circuit breaker is), so it would be multiple extra wasteful billed hours and duplicated work to get the electricians in twice. This is why I'm irritatedly waiting for final specs.

Mycroft | 30. Oktober 2011

Good idea on the NEMA 14-50.

We have LOTS of time before we need to install the cabling. In fact, we'll have three months from the time we place our order for the car.

Larry Chanin | 31. Oktober 2011

@Mycroft

"Good idea on the NEMA 14-50.

We have LOTS of time before we need to install the cabling. In fact, we'll have three months from the time we place our order for the car."

If you don't purchase the optional second on-board charger, then there's no reason to install the High Power Connector at home, since the charge time will be the same as via NEMA 14-50.

Larry

Mycroft | 31. Oktober 2011

Good point Larry. Some folks might not know that.

David70 | 01. November 2011

For home use I see no reason whatever to use anything higher than a NEMA 14-50. Whether I even get the 20 kW charger is still dependent on its cost for me. Last week I thought the stock market was finally recovering. Now it's going downhill again.

Thumper | 01. November 2011

I'm assuming I can get the EV charging tax credit if I get it done by the end of the year. Most of the cost will be the wire run so we could still get the rough-in done and then wait on the final box, either NEMA 14-50 or a Tesla charger. Does this sound right?

Soflauthor | 01. November 2011

The last few posts have discussed the 220V dryer plug/receptacle, and as an alternative, the NEMA 14-50 plug/receptacle. Does anyone know which wall-plug type comes standard with the charging cable? Or do you specify the wall-plug type you want when ordering the car?

mwu | 01. November 2011

On the features page they say:
Model S comes standard with everything you need to plug into the most common 240-volt outlet, standard 120-volt wall outlets and public stations.
On the facts page they say:
Model S plugs into any standard outlet.
and
220V outlets, like the ones used to power a dryer, charge Model S more quickly than a standard 110V outlet.
So it seems they provide at least a few options standard. I don't think they have announced exactly which plugs they will provide, though.

Mycroft | 01. November 2011

That's why I'm not doing anything until we have more information.

VolkerP | 02. November 2011

c'mon mycroft

if you want to reap the tax bebefits before end year, run gauge for at least 100A circuit to your breaker box. consider that you might want to have 2 electric vehicles in your garage in the years to come. If your home service allows, run 200A wire and install a sub breaker box in your garage. From there you can run 30A, 50A, 100A circuits on independent breakers to any outlet or wall box, be it inside our outside.

Robert.Boston | 02. November 2011

I'm not a home-wiring wiz, so a little practical advice would be helpful:

If I'm just going for a single 10kW in-car charger, charging at 220v, what breaker rating will I want? I'm thinking that that draws ~40A, so a 50A breaker is called for.

Mycroft | 02. November 2011

Thanks VP, but unless the charger is installed, I don't think it would qualify. Since its only the cost of the cable, and it's not a 100% break, we're not talking lots of money anyway.

Robert.B, the 50 amp would def. do the job. More would be overkill.

Mycroft | 02. November 2011

I did want to mention here that it was reported in the Tesla Motors Club forums that someone at Tesla said the HPC 2 would be weather proofed. If true, that would be fantastic!

If the HPC is weatherproof, then that will definitely help in identifying an optimal external location for the installation. Ideally, it would be located in a place where travelers could charge without blocking the exit to my garage. After all, if a traveler parks, begins charging, and then walks down the street to Wendy's for a meal, I don't want to have to wait for them to return to get my car out of the garage!

JamesIwan | 06. November 2011

Just reserved the model S lastweek. Was looking for charging network, and this idea seems really good. I am on board on this.

Please include me in the loop if you guys decided to create mailing-list or something similar like that.

Peace,
James