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How does Battery degradation effect charging.

How does Battery degradation effect charging.

Lets say you have a 90D that when you got it had rated range of 300 miles when fully charged (example for easy math not realistic range) So 90% would be 270 miles. If the battery degrades to 270 being the max charge will charging it to 270 be as harmful to the battery as charging to 100% when the battery is new?

StatsApp | 16. August 2018

I think the answer is yes. Charging to 100% and letting it sit in the garage is harmful to the battery regardless of the battery capacity being lower than what it was when it was new.

corlk | 16. August 2018

Einverstanden.

StatsApp | 16. August 2018

D'accord

corlk | 16. August 2018

Egyetértek

p.c.mcavoy | 16. August 2018

maxime definite

NoMoPetrol | 16. August 2018

Yawohl, Herr Kommandant.

Anthony J. Parisio | 17. August 2018

StatsApp + 1

sner66 | 17. August 2018

affect

StatsApp | 18. August 2018

@henry I understand that charging with higher current can be harmful especially when the battery is close to full, but it's not clear to me why (I.e. the physics behind it) charging the battery to its full capacity can harm the longevity of the battery.

We all charge our phones and other batteries to full capacity regularly. Anyone knows why Tesla battery is an exception?

tes-s | 18. August 2018

"We all charge our phones and other batteries to full capacity regularly."

Do we? Or has the manufacturer chosen to call 95% of capacity 100%?

Also, how long do you expect your phone battery to retain 70% of capacity? What is the warranty on your phone battery? How much does your phone battery cost?

Bighorn | 18. August 2018

Phone batteries have relatively short longevity vs a Tesla.

bill | 18. August 2018

I was hoping for more than a opinions but some scientific facts. :(

NKYTA | 18. August 2018

@bill, ok. What do you want?

Happy customers or sad?

I’m happy, both Tesla and my HVB have treated me well.
I got a new HVB “loaner” a few years in because I had a 2012 build, and water intrusion is never a problem when traveling in the West. More so on the East Coast.

Both worked fine.

Rocky_H | 20. August 2018

@StatsApp, Quote: “We all charge our phones and other batteries to full capacity regularly. Anyone knows why Tesla battery is an exception?”

That question answers itself. Because Tesla is trying to help people NOT destroy their batteries quickly. Cell phone charging behaviors that people normally do are about the most abusive things that can be done to lithium ion batteries, and that is why cell phone batteries only last a few years.

TranzNDance | 20. August 2018

My cell phone battery degraded badly after two years, when I replaced it with a new one. I was more mindful of not leaving it charged to 100% and it was doing well but then I cracked the screen badly enough to have to switch back to the old one until I get the next model of the latest one. The battery life is pretty bad and showing up in the red zone on a frequent basis.

Bighorn | 20. August 2018

The difference between Tesla and phone batteries is nicely documented in this excellent video:
https://youtu.be/TdUqQZC2dcE

TeslaTap.com | 20. August 2018

And back to the original question: "How does Battery degradation effect charging?"

The more the battery degrades the faster it charges! So perhaps after 20 years when it degrades to 75%, it may charge 25% faster from 0 to 100% SOC, as it doesn't need as much energy stored.

Bighorn | 20. August 2018

When my battery degraded 11%, it got much slower between 90 and 100% charging and received about 15kW less power on average.

TeslaTap.com | 20. August 2018

@Bighorn - Interesting. Was that normal usage degradation or was the battery failing perhaps with a bad module?

Bighorn | 20. August 2018

@TT
Normal usage over 200k miles. Module failure knocked off another 15% or so.

TeslaTap.com | 20. August 2018

@BH Thanks! Good to know.

TeslaTap.com | 03. September 2018

Yikes - four spammers in a row. These links have nothing to do with Tesla or batteries. Looks like a bot grabs text that seems related and adds the ad link. Perry is almost comical (buzzwords strung together) Please flag all four.

TeslaTap.com | 03. September 2018

My flags took care of the these spammers! Nice work everyone.

sbeggs | 07. September 2018

Flagged

Rocky_H | 12. September 2018

And more spam to flag. Sheesh

pinbahis | 25. September 2018

Great news. Thank you.

PBEndo | 01. Oktober 2018

FFOTD
FFOTM

tes-s | 01. Oktober 2018

2FOTD
2FOTM

SamO | 01. Oktober 2018

Battery degradation HELPS charge faster.

Smaller battery fills faster.

Thanks, degradation.

;-p

jordanrichard | 17. Oktober 2018

"Battery degradation is a major problem......" It is?

I am at 128,000 miles on my S85 and have only loss 3.2% of range. That's equivalent to a loss of about .8 mpg in an ICE car.

StatsApp | 17. Oktober 2018
Bighorn | 17. Oktober 2018

@jordan
It’s a troll bearing irrelevant links.

jordanrichard | 17. Oktober 2018

I know, but many new people or those doing research would naturally gravitate to any threads about batteries and I wanted it to set the record straight or at least try to.

jamesguan117 | 13. November 2018

Voltage is the true state of charge and as a battery degrades, it holds less electrons at that voltage level. So 4.20 is max voltage and high voltages degrade lithium ion batteries.

tes-s | 19. November 2018

@Bill - I am certain battery degradation does not effect charging.

jordanrichard | 29. November 2018

flagged above post.

p.c.mcavoy | 21. Dezember 2018

I'm thinking of launching a research study to investigate how battery degradation produces an altered magnetic field which attracts spam. Anyone know where I might be able to get some writing assistance???

Serious, is curious how the bots appear to have latched onto this thread. Seems like one spam post in this thread a day has become the norm.

cb500r | 24. Dezember 2018

As far as I remember, battery degradation is caused on two effects.
Ions in the electrolyte are moving. If at full charge, the ions are with a bigger distance to the electrode than at empty battery. One part of battery degradation is that some ions will be "out of reach". It's the reason why battery cells are pressurized in advance.
Too much distance = less capacity.
The other part is the other electrode. Mainly the surface is reactive, why manufacturers try to max this. The issue is mother nature tends to build larger amounts of solid areas, while other areas don't recieve anything back. As it is Winter time: Like snowflakes grow, instead of massive ice brick falling from the sky.
Less surface = less capacity.
The less charge hub you do, the less you move the ions. The less min/max-extrems you use, the less you push the ions away from the surface to be able to be out of reach/build unwanted structures.
Back to your question:
With still using 0-100% charging, you would just push the next line of ions out of reach / to build the snow flake structure. Thus your just killing your battery further.
Same as fast charging does not allow the ions to move organized and this also cause failure / degradation.
Luckily, Tesla is preventing us from being as stupid as we can.
Neither we can charge / discharge to the max / min. Nor can we charge too fast. We are set in a limit that Tesla sees as acceptable life time.

Just another two side comments, as I have seen this wrong comment in a youtube video:
It doesn't matter, if you charge 20kW DC or AC on the car, as the battery always receives DC. It does matter, if you charge 20 kW or 120 kW.
Effect described above is the reason, why charging speed goes down, ions are on a bigger distance and need more force to be moved further.

Yodrak. | 29. Dezember 2018

FLAGGED

p.c.mcavoy | 17. Januar 2019

In this thread active spammers this morning are ...

jordanrichard | 11. Februar 2019

ethannsmith, what the hell are you talking about....?

Flagged.

Tldickerson | 06. April 2019

Looks like SPAM is back.

tes-s | 08. April 2019

Back to the topic. Battery degradation absolutely does not effect charging. The only way to effect charging is to plug the car in.

Bighorn | 08. April 2019

@tes-s
So induction will never be a thing?

tes-s | 23. April 2019

You got me @BH. Currently the only way to effect charging is to plug the car in. At some future time, it could be effected by the car plugging itself in, induction, or perhaps other means. Overhead wires or groove in pavement are possibilities to charge while you drive.

https://www.greenmatters.com/news/2017/11/13/ZDVw23/california-electric-...

trevor58 | 16. Juli 2019

What’s next? The heat death of the universe?

seo2 | 29. August 2019

That's for sure high voltage affects the battery life which result in battery degradation. Also you can use low storage mobile apps.
https://www.fluper.com/mobile-app-development

ashiqadnan126 | 01. September 2019

Voltage is the true state of charge and as a battery degrades, it holds less electrons at that voltage level. Tesla is preventing us from being as stupid as we can. Neither we can charge / discharge to the max / min. Nor can we charge too fast. We are set in a limit that Tesla sees as acceptable life time.
https://www.icreseda.com/

straic009 | 12. Oktober 2019

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