Forums

85kWh Battery - Update - Reduced Capacity

85kWh Battery - Update - Reduced Capacity

My vehicle was impacted with reduced capacity of 13kWh over two months ago; reached out to Tesla for remediation to be told battery is operating as expected given millage and age,
and that the update has performed a re-calibration to reflect a true state of capacity.

After having paid for the Ludicrous upgrade, I now find myself with reduced performance and reduced range of over 40 miles , charges times have also increased - to obtain previous 80% capacity I now have to charge to 90% adding an additional 25 minutes to charging times.
I trust in Tesla, but two months on with several updates, still awaiting a fix ....hope your right and it’s not a permanent thing.
Reading through threads on other forums, the reasoning as to why Tesla have targeted specific 85kWh battery owners still remains unknown .

kevincwong | 27. Juli 2019

Given your sudden and substantial drop in capacity/range, I would suspect 3 bad modules. According the below website, one module can hold up to 5.3kWh. From what I've read from other's bad module experience is a sudden power down with ~32miles of rated range still available. I wonder if a local TeslaSpy user can help you scan the car to see what's going on.

https://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=463&osCsid=r...

Outhebox | 28. Juli 2019

Thanks for your response – reduced mileage is nearer 30+ miles and not 40 as I first reported.

Initially Tesla conducted an over the air diagnostics of the vehicle and concluded all was well.
Will look to schedule a Service slot – hopefully Tesla will determine cause and remediate.

tes-s | 28. Juli 2019

It would be helpful if you posted even just one reading of your SOC% and rated miles.

How did you arrive at your original post of 40+ miles reduction, and what caused you to change that to a 30+ mile reduction?

tes-s | 28. Juli 2019

Also year of car and mileage would help. If you charge to 90% now to get the same rated miles you used to get at 80%, that seems more like a 20+ mile reduction.

TeslaTap.com | 28. Juli 2019

@Outhebox - Have you done a range calibration? You need to drain the battery below 20%, then charge to 100% and check the range at 100% within an hour or two. Best to also turn off Sentry mode and if in a hot area, climate preconditioning.

There have been so many "lost range" reports over the last 6 years, only to find they owner was at some lower SOC and trying to interpolate to what a 100% SOC might be. So far, we rarely ever hear from those users after they do the range calibration. There has been some talk about a software update adding protection to the battery that may effect some 85s. I'm not sure I've heard of any yet doing a range calibration to really confirm if there might be some effect by a software update or not.

Of course age and miles on the car also have an effect over the range of the battery. A car with 200K miles is going to have more degradation than one with 20K miles.

So without the details and proper test, It's impossible to say if it is normal, there is a pack problem, or a software change that affected range.

Outhebox | 28. Juli 2019

@ tes-s

I simply rounded up.
As a data point - P85DL - 4 years old – mileage 56000 miles - charges to 100% giving 204 miles down from a previous 239 @100% .
This was validated by running down to 0 and charging to 100% - previously I would typically see a full capacity of 74-5kWh - it now shows 63kWh - This Loss is real and a known issue to which I believe Tesla are looking to remediate.

Outhebox | 28. Juli 2019

@TeslaTap.com

Thank you for your input concerning my issue.

Yes - implemented as you have described - several times in fact, however the issue remains.

I have confidence Tesla will fix...but it’s been over two months.

ST70 | 28. Juli 2019

P85DL new was 253 miles at 100%.

Bighorn | 28. Juli 2019

@ST70
And the 253 mile rated range represented an available 74 kWh, so the stated prior range of 239 miles corresponds to 70 kWh and 204 corresponds to 60 kWh capacity. Range would need to drop to 177 miles to reach the 30% degradation threshold set for the Model 3 for warranty claims, though never codified for the Model S. My battery was replaced for a sudden 11 kWh loss when a module went awry.

SnowFlake | 30. Juli 2019

Charging speed is reduced but still maintain the same capacity.
Charging take about 10 mins longer than before 80-90%.
Does anybody tried the 100% charge and measured the time it took

GHammer | 30. Juli 2019

"Does anybody tried the 100% charge and measured the time it took"
16%-100% 2 hours and 10 Minutes.

SnowFlake | 30. Juli 2019

Wow originally it was about 1hour and 15 mins
Mmm couple of long trips on the coming...may need frequent stops or more charging time...
I think the battery should be recalled and replaced..

SnowFlake | 30. Juli 2019

Wow originally it was about 1hour and 15 mins
Mmm couple of long trips are coming...may need frequent stops or more charging time...
I think the warranty should kick in now to replace the battery and restore the charging time ...

Bighorn | 30. Juli 2019

Balancing can take a long time so you might see 99% 30 or more minutes before 100%

NKYTA | 30. Juli 2019

Especially on AC, pretrip. ;-)

GHammer | 30. Juli 2019

yup, 40 minutes from 99% to charge complete.

tes-s | 31. Juli 2019

I see it as a feature to help reduce/avoid idle fees.

viranjit | 31. Juli 2019

@Outthebox,
I had a similar loss of capacity within a week on my 2012 P85 Model S. About 30 range miles decreased from a roughly steady state of 225 miles on 90% charge limit to 175 range miles.
I reported it to the nearby service center and they determined that there was an "imbalance" of some kind in the modules within the battery and said that they would replace the battery under warranty.
Then, three days ago, I got warnings about the "battery charge level reduced". Once that happened, the battery would no longer charge. So, after two days of steadily declining range miles I left the car at the service center yesterday. The (main) battery replacement should happen in the next few days.
78,000 miles on the odometer.

Hope that helps.

viranjit | 31. Juli 2019

Argh. Arithmetic! 225 - 175 is about 50 range miles!

JoeBadge | 31. Juli 2019

Same issue as @viranjit. 2013 MS P85. 60k miles on odometer. SC said they are replacing the 'BMB' module which is faulty and not allowing the car to charge. Hope i get a full new battery.

Outhebox | 01. August 2019

@viranjit/JoeBadge

Thanks for your input.

My symptom’s differ in as far as the vehicle is still able to charge, in addition the capacity has remained constant since the sudden drop.
Scheduled a service center appointment for next week.

Tesltoronto | 02. August 2019

Thanks Outhebox. Please keep us updated. I have a S85D and am curious. :)

SnowFlake | 04. August 2019

Updated, I have not received any software update . I'm still on the same 24.1.5. but this time my charge rates went up to 129kWh. Outside was 28℃ ( before it was max at 86kWh at 10%Soc and about 30℃ ambient temp. ) But have to change the driving style to save the charge time.
In the past 20-80% SOC is most comfortable but with new profile 5-65%SOC is the best choice and almost I could reach the destination as same as the ICE vehicle for the 1000km trip. Including the. Charging times.
I'm pretty sure with the model 3 or newer Tesla's we can beat the ICE vehicle for the long range drives 2000km 3000km trips.

SnowFlake | 04. August 2019

2015 Model S85D 147000km

MilesMD88 | 04. August 2019

2015 P85D, just charged to 100%. 248 miles. May 2015 build. 30K miles.

Outhebox | 06. August 2019

@Tesltoronto
Attended Service Centre today, to be told that that the 'vehicle's HV Battery does not exhibit any errors and that the cells are balanced within specification ' - in addition, no faults have been observed from the vehicle’s log’s.
The technician confirmed that the update had in fact reduced kWh capacity in order to prolong battery life and to mitigate against damage/fire which potentially could be caused by frequently high DC charging to high states of charge.
Enquiring as to why my battery had been targeted the technician replied that one of the ‘triggers’ that invokes the condition had been tripped – the trigger being frequent high DC charging, he went on to further explain, other triggers could also induce the condition without the variable of ‘High DC charging’ being part of the equation as in an ‘AND’ or ‘OR’ Boolean expression.

Qwiksilver | 07. August 2019

@Outhebox
Do you in fact “high DC charge” as they are claiming?
What version software did you update to when this occurred?
My 2013 85S is now charging slower than ever at the supercharger this week. I rarely supercharge. I am running on V 24.2.

Outhebox | 07. August 2019

@Qwiksilver

Yes, I am a frequent user of the SC network.
Battery capacity was reduced immediately after updating to software version 2019.16.2 during the middle of May.
Since that date my P85DL has, in effect been reduced to a P60DL – that’s a loss of capacity, range and performance.
As a data point, I Just updated to 2019.28.2 - the Issue remains.
I concur with your observation of slower SC charging – I now have to charge to 100% to get a previous 85%, which now takes an additional 30 minutes.
Needless to say I am disappointed as to how this has been dealt with and don’t have much more to add.
As I see it my only recourse is to enter into legal proceedings; the details and outcome of which I do not intend to post online.
I sincerely hope that other owners who have been effected reach satisfactory agreements with Tesla.

Qwiksilver | 08. August 2019

@outhebox
There is discussion on TMC forum about starting a class action lawsuit over this exact issue.

the.boatman.family | 08. August 2019

We drive the 2014 85 model. We have noticed a significant reduction in charging at a supercharger. The car charges at a lower key. It would normally charge at 90kwh when it's less than 20% but now it's charging at 70kwh and lower regardless.

robwarnersc | 08. August 2019

So I experience all the same issues as found above. I have begun arbitration process and if that does not take care of the situation, I would be very interested in starting a class action suit. I spoke with the local service center about a week ago when I experienced incredible slow charging rates (absolutely impacting my ability to go on road trips) and they told me they read through all the numbers including charging rate. What they told me did NOT match up with what I experienced while charging. They told me that my car charged at 90 mHz for a while which it did not. At any rate, I went to the charging station again yesterday and emailed pictures of my screen every 5 minutes to the same service manager and I am waiting to hear back as I started charging with 100 miles and the highest rate was 49 Hz and went down rapidly from there. It took me 42 minutes to charge 89 miles to my daily max which has now fallen to 189 miles. Really unacceptable.

Bighorn | 08. August 2019

Hz ain’t a thing, so you’d best learn the most basic of concepts.

txakoli | 08. August 2019

90mHz??? A really, really small FM station?

GHammer | 08. August 2019

All Teslas charge at 0 Hz.

robwarnersc | 08. August 2019

Typo / brain fart kw. I think you missed the point.

johncrab | 08. August 2019

I was not affected by this particular nasty bug (they got me with others) but I truly sympathize. I just ran across this news via NASDAQ about an owner who has filed a lawsuit and is seeking class status. He alleges this is manipulation in order to avoid making good on their warranty for the batteries. https://www.nasdaq.com/article/tesla-hit-by-lawsuit-claiming-thousands-o...

PBEndo | 08. August 2019

The last firmware update caused a small but sudden drop in the rated miles at a 90% charge in my early 2013 P85. A week later, when on a road trip that resulted in taking the SOC down to less than 30 rated miles, the 90% charge returned to its pre-update level as though nothing had ever happened.

Gwenanddamian | 13. August 2019

I noticed after an update that my 2018 model x dropped about 14 miles fully charged. I brought it up to my service center and they told me my car was just adjusting to my driving habit. That the way I drive I will only get 225 miles compared to the 239 that I purchased my car at. After hearing that several people noticed similar decrease after a recent I now it was B.S.

15augustkoaarahahume | 14. August 2019

Thanks for your input.

My symptom’s differ in as far as the vehicle is still able to charge, in addition the capacity has remained constant since the sudden drop.
Scheduled a service center appointment for next week.

SnowFlake | 14. August 2019

My 85D is keeping it capacity in kms. But actually energy stored is reduced. In recent 10000km trips , I could able to use only 59.8kwh compared to previous 70kWh . Between 100%-10%.
Keeping the same rated km by adjusting the consumption rate, which is gone from 220Wh/km to 178Wh/km. Same I paid SC to do the check uo and then they changed the wheel nuts and one door handle and waved the battery diagonishig charge.
My charge rates still hits 130kW at 5%soc and in less than 5 mins or when soc20% comes to 80kW and also projected charge times are off by 15 mins
But in recent last week trip from Toronto to Kentucky bothways I have saved one less charging stop compared to the predictions by abetterrouteplanner.com or evtripplanner.com. I was able to leave the charge stations when the map showed destination will reach at 1% but I arrived with 20% on the battery it happened both ways and I took the same route. So elevation is not contributed to this high efficient drive.
Also both trip planning websites predicted 5 charging stops but as per car I did too at only 3 superchargers and stayed about 30- 40 mins.
I think as an EV early adopters we need to change / learn again how we can save time in the long drives. Car changed its behavior we need to relearn and adopt to it......

Qwiksilver | 15. August 2019

At a supercharger right now. Pulled in with 68 miles of range (battery level 28%).
Been here for several minutes now. Charging at 36kW (121 mi/hr). The car says it will take 1 hour and 10 min to charge.
It’s obvious Tesla has tampered with our vehicles, and the reason they are now facing a class action.
I took video of the screen in case Tesla (or anyone else) calls into question the supercharging rate.

TeslaTap.com | 15. August 2019

@Qwiksilver - Sounds like a repeat in another thread. Are you in an unpaired stall.? Doesn't mean a free spot next to you but if you're in 1A, check that 1B is not in use. They are not always paired adjacent to each other. What are the temps like? Very high temps may also limit your charging, especially if you're sitting in the car using the A/C, which limits battery cooling. How long did you watch the charge rate? I've had a few cases where it didn't ramp up for 3-5 minutes. Lastly do you have an "A" battery pack in your S85? These were always limited to 90 kW max. I think you said elsewhere it was a 2013 S, so it's likely you do not have an A pack. They were in 2012s and a few 2013s early in the year.

Lots of people jumping to questionable conclusions. Perhaps there is some change in the latest software, but far from certain without more details and knowing more about the conditions.

Chrisdv | 15. August 2019

Same issue. Assume it happened after the May upgrade. 80% charge level suddenly went from 200+ miles to 175. Called Tesla and they told me to make a service appointment. I frequently charge at the SC, so I suppose I'll get the same explanation. Read somewhere that Tesla made adjustments to older cars after the Shanghai fire. Not sure if that's accurate. Certainly wasn't reflected in release notes.

pastorjimkuchera | 16. August 2019

I've read every one of your posts, and Tesla has not been honest. I have a May 2014 S85. I stopped updating on the 'pushed updates' at version 8 because I love that user interface and find it completely to my satisfaction. There were horror stories about the time about navigation systems difficulties, and I have never had any 'difficulties' in version 8. Oh yes, I hate the constant nagging that I have an update waiting, so I have to close it. My car with 92K on it, and moving into the sixth year of ownership still charges to 261 every weekend, and loses about 1 mile to find the 'garage vampire' every night whether summer, or winter. So, the problem with range loss is quite obviously software driven by some update. I am deeply concerned about folks are getting the run around, the 'shaft', the 'b.s.', the 'service nonservice' on this issue.. Yes, I agree, if Tesla takes away your mileage in such a nefarious manner, they either fix it, or a class action lawsuit is utterly recommended, and sadly, in my experience there will be a puny financial settlement, and no fix to the software. Just like your age, and mine, we sadly cannot roll back the clock. Software rollbacks are just as difficult. Move forward on this one, is my recommendation, and don't be lulled into thinking that the return to 'unlimited Supercharging is a settlement'. It isn't a fix, but a buy off. Best wishes to all of you so affected. ---Jim

Pungoteague_Dave | 16. August 2019

I have noticed that Supercharging is now MUCH slower in our '14 P85D. That was one reason to upgrade to a Raven X, although we will lose speed when charging using our 80A home chargers.

Qwiksilver | 16. August 2019

@TeslaTap. Unpaired

@PastorJim. You were smarter than the rest of us. Wish I declined the updates. Tesla should give full disclosure before asking us to accept the update. Your assessment of this situation is spot on.

abel2 | 16. August 2019

I have a 2013 Model S 85, I haven't noticed any significant change to the mileage. When I bought the car used from Tesla it charged to 260 rated miles. Recently I charged to 100% and it says 257 rated miles after two years of having the car I only lost 3 miles. This is all I can ask for, granted the car only has 41K miles on it so fairly low. I always update with the latest software and haven't noticed a change. I hope these are isolated incidents. Good luck, still loving the tesla everyday.

dj-tesla | 16. August 2019

Mine dropped 10 miles from 257 at 100% to 247miles

dj-tesla | 16. August 2019

Mine dropped 10 miles from 257 at 100% to 247miles

rxlawdude | 16. August 2019

The irony of all of this is that meanwhile Tesla is upping the power in its SpC to 250kW.

What good is that if in a couple of years, they decide to downgrade charging speeds in the newer battery-equipped cars?

Pages