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Mid-Range - Loss in Range - Battery Degradation (@7000 miles)

Mid-Range - Loss in Range - Battery Degradation (@7000 miles)

I have a mid-range M3 and started to notice loss of range when I hit ~7000 miles (now at 9000 miles). I have always charged to 85% state of charge since I got the car and never charged to 100% until recently once to see if it would help with calibrating the battery. At 85% charge, I used to get 224 miles and now I get ~212 miles. Approx. 5% degradation in only 7000 miles. I had submitted a ticket with Tesla Service. However, they came back suggesting there is nothing wrong with the battery and that the displayed range is not accurate representation of the actual degradation. They also recommending to discharge to 20% and charging back to 90% for a while. I have been following that routine for over 1500 miles now but there does not seem to be any improvement. In fact, for the first time I charged to 100% last week and only got to 245 miles at 100% charge, which is ~6.5% degradation. I would like to know if other mid-range owners are seeing similar loss in range?

andy.connor.e | 27. August 2019

after the 50th thread on this topic, the estimated range is not accurate. Tesla is correct.

hamiltonned | 27. August 2019

My mid-range 6,000 miles 8 months old: 246 miles with 100% charge. Battery experts on forums have said the battery will lose 10% in the first year and 5% in second year. Then fairly flat after.

Bighorn | 27. August 2019

Hamilton
The only person I’ve seen say 10% is normal year one degradation is not a battery expert, but the biggest current troll. 10% is normal for about 150,000 miles in the old batteries. Should be better than that now.

gballant4570 | 27. August 2019

My Model 3 battery has experienced zero degradation in the first 11 months and 16k miles. However, my estimated mileage based of SOC has experienced a bit of variation. Actual performance has not.

bkodipitta | 27. August 2019

I am noticing after a recent software update, that the overnight charging range dropped from 278 miles to 264. My car is 9 months old (Nov 2019), with approx 11K miles and is the Long Range Dual Motor configuration. I tried discharging the battery to 20% and then charging it back, but without any success.

Bulldawg | 28. August 2019

I know people are getting tired of these threads. The most common advice is to set in on % and don't worry about it. That's what I do, although every once in a while I take a peak at the miles display.

My Nov '18 build mid range has a little over 23k miles. Typically charge it 30-90% for daily driving.

Current 100% state of charge (calculated from various percentages) is 234 miles. Eleven percent "degradation" so far.

Not complaining per se, just sharing data.

82bert | 28. August 2019

Just out of curiosity, because I’ve never seen the answer in these threads, but how does Tesla confirm true battery degradation %??

Teslanene | 28. August 2019

My mid-range has been having the same issue for about 6 months now, but I got over it. At 100% charge I get anywhere from 248 to 252.

atharbuddy | 29. August 2019

I purchased std plus and was downgraded to std and lost 2 miles. Tesla Then restore it back and then again lost miles this time 10 miles and it showed Std on the screen. Tesla
Fixed that but the miles kept dropping down to 222 miles last charge and they keep saying charge it to 90% to 10% and it will improve. By the way I have now around 5500 miles.
One thread stated Resa doing CAC reset and it restore the lost miles. But so far in my case Tesla is ignoring that.
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/cdzseb/battery_degradation...

atharbuddy | 29. August 2019

No other comments

atharbuddy | 29. August 2019

*typo
I lost 20 miles first and now 28 miles

Techy James | 29. August 2019

If change the display energy versus estimated miles then you can compare. What you have to remember that range when your showing range versus energy is an estimate. That estimate will vary over time based on how you drive the car. Now if you have it set to charge to 85% and all the sudden it stops at 80% then you can say there is issue with battery degrading.
From experience having the car now for 8.5 months and driving 17.5K Miles I can tell you the estimate of range for miles varies drastically from Summer to Winter. In the winter my Estimated range started at about 263 miles at 80% for my LR RWD. After the temps took a turn for the frigid state of things and we wasn't even seeing temps above the freezing mark the Estimated range actually dropped. It got as low as 255. Now the temps have headed in to summer settings I have seen it climate and actually is about 268 which is better than the rated of 263. Now in the percentage setting there isn't any variation other than those odd days it charges to 81% to 83% versus the set 80%. I count those days as flux's that maybe the car wanted some extra juice to show off a bit who knows.

RedPillSucks | 29. August 2019

I've seen about the same. 5% degradation. Remember that battery degradation is not linear.

gaurav.tyagi | 29. August 2019

Thanks to everyone for sharing your experience. It does appear a lot of the M3 users are experiencing the same 5-6% of "perceived" degradation. It also appears it is limited to M3 and that Model S/X users do not seem to see this level of degradation even on their estimated range so early. If this is truly just an estimate, how do we know what's the true degradation on the battery over time? Has anyone else tried CAC reset to restore miles?

Bighorn | 29. August 2019

Have you ever had an iPhone? One minute, itt says you have 30% battery and the next thing it's shutting down, dead? The battery condition is not truly knowable. Calling it degradation is a misnomer and discerning its roots is not a fruitful endeavor.

lordmiller | 29. August 2019

Well said Bighorn. Everyone's battery is fine!

atharbuddy | 29. August 2019

Mine is already at 7.5% (222 be 240 miles) in only 5000 miles odo reading. It’s crazy.

atharbuddy | 29. August 2019

*222 vs 240

atharbuddy | 29. August 2019

By the way my friends’ model 3 at 20000 miles odo reading still gives the same miles on a full charge as day one.

BRosie | 29. August 2019

Since the latest update, charging to 90% gives me 271 mi. Before that, it was 279 consistently for the 9 months I've had it. AWD

Voltaire | 30. August 2019

@gaurav.tyagi I also have a mid-range M3 and experienced the same behavior you referenced the first time I drove below 10% and charged above 90% (which occurred at approximately 5,000 miles). The car had a 12 mi loss of displayed range at 90% and 100% despite attempted "recalibrations" and the CAC reset procedure. At first, it irked my anal retentive nature and I wanted to "fix" it. I've since realized it's no big deal as the actual range I achieve on long trips is much better than the car thinks it can achieve. I did a long (222 mi) trip between the Waco supercharger and my destination just a few days ago and arrived with 12% more battery remaining than what the car initially projected (17% versus 5%). The Energy graph Trip tab in the car is especially useful on a long trip to see how the car is performing versus its initial calculation and to see a constantly updated new projection. I'm always above the line now. Personally, I keep the display in % versus miles because I've come to know what Wh/mi I use on average during various driving regimes and can instantly convert that to how far I can go for a given %. A Better Route Planner has been very useful for me in calculating planned energy usage during a trip and more accurate than the car. Typically, I've been within 2 or 3 percent of what the car actually achieves using A Better Route Planner versus the car being off its estimation by up to 15%. As an aside, you can achieve amazingly low energy usage and a significant boost in range drafting behind large trucks with the TACC follow distance on 2. I was seeing 180-185 Wh/mi at 70 mph over a 15 mi average during my last trip across undulating terrain that had a gradual average elevation increase and an OAT of 95 degrees F. For reference, I typically see a Wh/mi of 245 at 65 mph with no one in front of me and no headwind. My usage was so low during this last trip, Stats reported my new estimated range as 348 mi upon recharging my mid-range. Not useful, but fun to see. :)

cquail | 30. August 2019

I have a 2018 LR RWD Model 3 with 40K+ miles. I charge to 90%. New, the 90% range was 292 miles. Lately I get 282. I am happy with that.

andy.connor.e | 30. August 2019

Again, the range estimator is probably adapting to your driving. Its not degradation.

shank15217 | 30. August 2019

My Model LR had 312 miles when I bought it, now it gets 316 miles, so I I'm getting battery aggregation, I'm really upset.

apodbdrs | 30. August 2019

I think is a mistake for TESLA to show a number for range, simply battery percentage would actually be better. On an ICE vehicle, people only worry about how much gas is still in the tank by viewing the fuel gauge, why can't people do the same on a TESLA. They get a feel as to when to fill the tank up. Once people drive their ICE off the lot, no one really cares or complains to the manufacturer on fuel consumption their are getting!

andy.connor.e | 30. August 2019

"Once people drive their ICE off the lot, no one really cares or complains to the manufacturer on fuel consumption their are getting!"

+1

Kikujiro | 30. August 2019

Mid-range here. 14735 miles as of today and had the car 9 months. Been charging to 70% daily but switched to 60% last month because I only use about 10-15% a day or about 35 miles or so, this morning I was at 57% charge - 147 miles. I road trip about 800-1000 miles a month using Supercharger. Two weeks ago I charged to 100% to balance the batteries and was at 258. I am not seeing the 5-10% degradation people are reporting.

ODWms | 31. August 2019

So true, on all points, apodbdrs. Most people have no idea they get nowhere near near claimed EPA mileage in ICE cars. When you consider the methodology used in calculating those figures, it’s no wonder.

FISHEV | 31. August 2019

“how do we know what's the true degradation on the battery over time?”@guarav.tyagi

To find out the true battery degradation you would have to drive it until it died. The “Rated Range” (what you see with the green battery indicator) is what Tesla thinks the battery capacity is times 4.13 miles/kWh fixed formula for the AWD 75kWh battery. The SR’s are more efficient but it is still a fixed formula for “Rated Range”. “Estimated Range” uses your actual driving history x battery capacity so that can be higher or lower than Rated Range depending on your driving.

Tesla’s official word on acceptable degradation:

1 year/12000 Miles - up to 10% degradation.

2 year/24000 Miles - up to 5% degradation (for a total degradation of 15%)

Xerogas | 31. August 2019

@gaurav.tyagi: "It also appears it is limited to M3 and that Model S/X users do not seem to see this level of degradation even on their estimated range so early?"
------
Nope. If anything, Model 3 2170 batteries are better than their Model S/X counterparts. What you ‘appear’ to be hearing is due to widespread misunderstanding from new owners who do not know how the estimates work.

Xerogas | 31. August 2019

@FISHEV: "Tesla’s official word on acceptable degradation:

1 year/12000 Miles - up to 10% degradation.

2 year/24000 Miles - up to 5% degradation (for a total degradation of 15%)"
------
First off, *acceptable* degradation is nowhere near the same meaning as *expected* degradation, which is what people here are talking about.
Second, give us a URL to show where you are getting Tesla’s “official” word, otherwise I don’t believe it.

I spent a couple seconds googling, and indeed found Tesla’s official word, in the form of their battery warranty https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/tesla-new-vehicle-li...

In it, they warrant this: “Model 3 with Long Range Battery - 8 years or 120,000 miles (192,000 km), whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity* over the warranty period.”

From this, I conclude Tesla considers anything less than 70% retention after 8 years/120K miles to be unacceptable. Still no mention of *expected* loss, though.

Sites like TeslaFi show real-world *expected* average battery health

Pierre_begin | 01. September 2019

Same here, mid range model 3 at 100% is 252 miles and not 264 miles. This loss after 5 months and 11k miles.

francisco | 10. September 2019

I have the exact same issue. Mid range m3 at 100% is 252 miles. 10k miles. Now this happened suddenly this summer. Could it be a software issue?

Also, the displayed range does matter as it is a combination of kwh readings and epa ratings. The EPA ratings did not change. So, is my BMS reading a smaller capacity? If so, that is concerning as the car will act (shut down) based on that estimate.

Lbanworth | 10. September 2019

I have a 2018 M3 AWD LR and now have 30,000 miles on it. Within the past two weeks I've went from 248 miles @ 80% to 234. I spoke with the SC and they asked me how I charge and drive. So I explained that I never go above 80% charge and never below 30% discharge. With this said, the SC said to start charging to 90% daily and that it would correct itself over a period of three weeks. Well, its been three days that I've been charging to 90% and I've actually gained a mile per day doing this.

FISHEV | 10. September 2019

*acceptable* degradation is nowhere near the same meaning as *expected* degradation"@Xerogas

Actually nearly identical since that is what Tesla considers within normal operational range degradation. It is what Tesla would "expect" see. It may be that people who don't drive much would see less, people who drive more would see more. People using SC's vs. home charging would see more.

Joshan | 10. September 2019

What manufacturer would put warranty replacements at a level that is considered "expected" are you really that dense? Yes they want to replace every battery in every car for free. For fugs sake...

FISHEV | 10. September 2019

"What manufacturer would put warranty replacements at a level that is considered "expected""@Joshan

Expected degradation of 10% in first year is not at the same level as warranty which allows for 30% overall battery degradation in 8 years.

Joshan | 10. September 2019

wrong as always...

gaurav.tyagi | 10. September 2019

@Lbanworth - That's interesting. I was told to do the same and have not seen any improvement even when I charge to 90%. Been doing this for a few weeks now. I have lost hope that I will get the original range back or even close. I know most people suggest it is not true degradation and we should not fuss about it. However, I am certain degradation is a significant contributor to this loss in range. Just hoping the trend does not continue.

Kikujiro | 10. September 2019

I think your lifetime deficiency may have much to do with your current range more than the battery. I have 15,050 as of today and my mid-range is estimating 156 at 60% charge. I charge to 100% once every couple of months and last reading was 258mi. My lifetime efficiency is reading 234 wh/mi. My friend's Performance, he is reading 285 wh/mi and his 100% range is 270 miles. He drives like a maniac and I have mine on chill mode and autopilot most of the time.

francisco | 11. September 2019

What is interesting is that all of us M3 Mid range lost the exact same range.... at around the same month.... that is a very coincidental normal degradation ;)

andy.connor.e | 11. September 2019

@FISH

Where are you getting these numbers from?

"1 year/12000 Miles - up to 10% degradation.

2 year/24000 Miles - up to 5% degradation (for a total degradation of 15%)"

This info is not in the warranty. Where are you getting this from?

jimglas | 11. September 2019

Remember: Fish is always wrong

andy.connor.e | 11. September 2019

Never forget

OrionHunter | 16. Oktober 2019

I am experiencing the exact same phenomenon as the OP states. MR M3 delivered in December 2018 currently with 4500 miles and rated range is 247 miles. Really unhappy with this. Given that many other MR3 owners report having no reported degradation, this leaves those of us that do with an understandably uncomfortable situation. Realistically looking to sell my Tesla and go back to an Infiniti. Too bad...the battery tech is just not there yet.