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Elon Musk and Jack Ma on AI and other topics

Elon Musk and Jack Ma on AI and other topics

Great debate. I pick Elon as the clear winner. Mandatory viewing for all Tesla and Musk Fanbois
https://youtu.be/f3lUEnMaiAU

Let’s discuss

carlk | 01. September 2019

Jack Ma may be rich but he's never considered a thinker or visionary. I'll pass.

SCCRENDO | 01. September 2019

I agree. But listen to Elon

mos6507 | 01. September 2019

Elon is wrong on population. Shockingly wrong.

NKYTA | 01. September 2019

I actually agree with mos. Shocker!

SCCRENDO | 01. September 2019

It goes against our beliefs. But we should ask ourselves why is he wrong

NKYTA | 01. September 2019

I love Elon’s pie in the sky, Moon Base Alpha, go to Mars, Multi-planetary. Reusable rockets, but of course.

And he is going the best way we have for sustainable transportation. Re-usable Energy, batteries, natch.

But this world can’t handle the Billions that we have, much less a few more billion.

And did somebody besides myself catch 1800 new babies per yer by Jack Ma in China? That seems to defy logic...

Stop procreating people!

The fires are burning in the Amazon, because crops and cattle are more lucrative than the lungs of the planet.

Follow the Effingham money.

SCCRENDO | 02. September 2019

@NKYTA. I am a Tesla fanboi. But that doesn’t mean that I believe everything he says nor does it mean that I agree with everything. Jack Ma seemed relatively clueless. I was also intrigues by his population theories. My take is that he believes AI is going to take over a lot of the tasks that need to be done today. Examples would be self driving cars, automated manufacturing etc. Initally new and different jobs will be created but ultimately nobody will need to work. AI will do everything. And to non believers he site what happened with chess. Humans are wasting their time playing chess as machines have more than solved this. And at the rate of progression of AI so much more will be solved exponentially. Humans will have more and more time to do nothing. They will turn more to the arts etc. Lesspeople will be needed. Countries will no longer need to import labor from other countries. So what do we do with all the extra people. One option would be to be to kill people off. I guess that’s may cause dictatorships to thrive. Otherwise we need to find other places to colonize like Mars. Also we need to be smart and preserve our planet from the expanding populations and also we need to find a way to feed them. How do the live. I guess that is where UBI comes in.

This is just my understanding of what he is saying. Not to say I agree with him. But I am not sure I could make a better prediction

carlk | 02. September 2019

@SCCRENDO I tried to finish the video but I just can't stand the dumbass (in this area) and arrogant Ma trying too hard to show he's smart. Felt sorry for Elon that he had to go through this because he wants to sell cars in China.

As for the human species I think population reduction will happen but not just for the conventional reason that people tend to have less children when living standard improves. Like you mentioned there will be less need of people when human's role becomes diminished. I think the eventual goal is just to preserve the human species from distinction like we do with endangered animals. Pretty pessimistic view from human's stand point I know.

Dramsey | 02. September 2019

@NKYTA,

"The fires are burning in the Amazon, because crops and cattle are more lucrative than the lungs of the planet."

The Amazon rainforest isn't "the lungs of the planet".

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/08/why-amazon-doesnt...

Money quote:

"As several scientists have pointed out in recent days, the Amazon’s net contribution to the oxygen we breathe likely hovers around zero."

If you want to understand how oxygen actually gets into the atmosphere, this article has a pretty good overview:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/08/amazon-fire-earth-ha...

NKYTA | 02. September 2019

@SCC, “One option would be to be to kill people off.”

Yeah, but the other option is better. Procreate less. How is that not a better solution??

@carlk, yeah it was somewhat uncomfortable to watch.

NKYTA | 02. September 2019

@Dramsey, good articles, thank you.

So burning off 9% (from your link) of land based oxygen production is okay, along with the destruction of all the biodiversity?

We really should stop shitting were we live.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/phytoplankton-population/

SCCRENDO | 02. September 2019

@NKYTA. Indeed controlling population through procreating less would be the correct answer. But I guess he is facing reality. With civilization breading does control itself. But good luck trying to regulate it. Look at the anti abortion fight in our so called civilized country.

Madatgascar | 02. September 2019

I own a lot of both TSLA and BABA. This talk was just depressing. Elon’s mind was somewhere else (with the exception of his rationale for colonizing Mars), his references to Neuralink were totally obtuse, and Jack Ma was just plain wrong on so many issues.

SCCRENDO | 02. September 2019

I think we are all agreed that Jack Ma was somewhere else. Elon however was pretty logical even though he is not always the most eloquent. His goals make a lot of sense. Whether this is achievable is open to question. But again who would have thought that self driving cars and a private individual achieving what SpaceX has achieved would be feasible.

Madatgascar | 02. September 2019

The jury is out on self driving cars. Personally I think Elon is delusional on FSD. But yes, accomplishments so far are amazing.

SCCRENDO | 02. September 2019

@Madatgascar. We are probably splitting hairs but he is close enough to FSD that it barely matters. And even if he does not get there with Tesla someone will. The real issue is that we are achieving stuff that even science fiction could not imagine. Whether we can actually achieve what Elon wants including colonization of Mars in by no means certain. But it is feasible. And he was provides a good rationale for wanting to try do it and to try do it now.

Madatgascar | 03. September 2019

Yes, the logic for colonizing Mars was the high point of the talk. But the level at which AI was discussed sounded like high school kids, with Jack Ma arguing that humans must be smarter than computers because humans can make computers while computers can’t even make a mosquito. And Elon responding with “what about chess?” OMG.

And does anyone buy into this Neuralink business? “Age won’t matter... you’ll always be able to save your state, and restore your state, like a saved game?”

SCCRENDO | 03. September 2019

@Madatgascar. Forget about Jack Ma. He is not a scientist and he is a pure spiritual guy. He is an example of a highly successful man who get credit for his success. But that does not translate into any knowledge of the future. Elon Musk is a genius with great insight. And yes I do believe in Neuralink. And I have an understanding of it as a physician. It is definitely feasible like FSD. Is it doable. I believe it is but that is the unknown. The brain is but a series of circuits and we are increasing our understanding of it at an exponential rate. It is very complex. But that does not mean it is not doable. It is like hacking a major computer system that runs a whole country. Theoretically we should be able to take control of it for better or for worse. When you were a child did you ever think you would have self driving cars, smart phones, the internet. Would you have ever believed that you could control your life from your smart phone without ever leaving your home. Would you have though that you could purchase something from China that would arrive in a few days straight fro your phone. Think of “back to the future”. It was a weird though at that time. Besides the time travel is there much that is far fetched. Chess is but one example. He also spoke about that more complex Chinese game. Even the greatest human brains could not solve those games. But a computer can. That is what he is referring to

carlk | 03. September 2019

The chess answer is because that's the only thing at the level Ma might be able to understand, although it did not seem like he understood that either. He's totally clueless on artificial "intelligence".

Someone has said there are two types of success people. One he called accidental achiever, ones who owe their success to that they happened to be in the right place and at the right time. The other he called incidental achiever, ones like Jobs or Elon or perhaps Bezos who is able to accomplish any endeavour he set out to do. That both Elon and Ma are successful billionaires says very little of their intellectual capabilities.

carlk | 03. September 2019

***And does anyone buy into this Neuralink business? “Age won’t matter... you’ll always be able to save your state, and restore your state, like a saved game?”***

Yes I do. The science is only in its infantry but you'd be amazed of how much we know about how brain functions and how much we can do to tap into it even now.

El Mirio | 03. September 2019

I'm bummed lately, Elon isn't asked challenging questions in interviews. He is not a politician and doesn't mind hard questions. Substantial questions should be asked, as

- why are you not loosening supercharger requirements for others too opt in?
- do you have plans/ideas to remove CO2 here on earth, if not why?
- your mars mission will require participants to live very stringent, what should be adopted here other than energy?
- how can we transform democracy to be what we think it is?
etc.

I'm not saying i expect him to know the answers, but asking hard questions, or questions which have merit, could have valuable insight or at least create a topic of discussion.

SCCRENDO | 03. September 2019

@El Mirio, I guess we get what we can get. This interview was more about concepts than details. I learned a lot. Hence I posted the link to see if others felt the same. I understand where he is coming from. Whether he or society as a whole will be able to achieve those goals is certainly debatable. I got some insight as to why he likes UBI. His future sees a world or even multiple planets with non working people. And yes we will need to get money garnered by AI for our own living expenses etc. But where you and I differ, you think we need to vote for a candidate with that policy now. I believe that it will only be needed in the future. That may be the right policy for our president in 2068. But in the more short to medium term there may be better solutions.

rxlawdude | 03. September 2019

"...The science is only in its infantry..."

Only in the Army?

SCCRENDO | 03. September 2019

@rxlawdude. i think we could @carlk a break on that one. Others not so much

carlk | 03. September 2019

@SCCRENDO Definitely. We do know nitpick is the only thing rx is capable of doing.

rxlawdude | 03. September 2019

@carlk, if I really nit picked, you'd be floating in a sea of RID.

I guess you can't take a joke.

SCCRENDO | 03. September 2019

Now now gentlemen. Less reserve our fights for the intellectually less endowed trolls on these fora

rxlawdude | 03. September 2019

Thin skinned posters.should leave or put on their big boy/girl pants.

TabascoGuy | 03. September 2019

rid
/rid/
verb
make someone or something free of (a troublesome or unwanted person or thing).

10's from all the judges on that Freudian slip @rx

SamO | 03. September 2019

Nobody cares whether you think FSD or Neuralink is possible. You are very likely entirely unqualified to render a reasoned judgement.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity

Because you found something difficult to understand, or are unaware of how it works, you made out like it's probably not true. Complex subjects like biological evolution through natural selection require some amount of understanding before one is able to make an informed judgement about the subject at hand; this fallacy is usually used in place of that understanding.

rxlawdude | 03. September 2019

@Tabasco - you've not seen the "GFYs" and exhortations to people they disagree with to leave? Really?

Madatgascar | 03. September 2019

@SamO, I’ll be the first say (at least on Neuralink) I am unqualified for sure. I’m hungry for more info and that’s why I’m disappointed. 45 minutes should be enough time for Elon to at least get into a little science for an educated audience. If you’re not conveying a message to an educated audience, what’s the point of throwing platitudes around? It’s like saying you’re working on a time machine, mike drop.

SCCRENDO | 03. September 2019
carlk | 03. September 2019

@rxlawdude Go ahead keep making potshot at people. That seems to be the greatest contribution you have to this forum.

rxlawdude | 03. September 2019

Sure thing @carl. Whatever you say.

SamO | 04. September 2019

Madatgascar,

Sorry that this presentation wasn’t info packed. Watch this and educate yourself.

https://youtu.be/r-vbh3t7WVI

TabascoGuy | 04. September 2019

@rxlawdude - no disrespect intended, I just thought the typo was funny in a number of ways.

andy.connor.e | 04. September 2019
rxlawdude | 04. September 2019

@TB, NP.

Madatgascar | 04. September 2019

@SamO, thanks, now THAT was impressive. Not only does Elon do the general overview at the beginning, he also stands up at the end and answers technical questions from the audience with as much in-depth understanding as all 5 experts from different disciplines. Wow.

I still think he wildly extrapolates from the current state of technology to the fantastic future in a way that risks painting himself as a snake oil salesman. After watching that Neuralink video, "age won't matter" still trips my BS detector, but I'll give him some benefit of the doubt. Coming in the middle of an otherwise vacuous "talk" with Jack Ma, it sounded absurd.

SCCRENDO | 04. September 2019

@Madatgascar. Don’t mind Sam0. He is a dickhead. He thinks he knows everything and is pretty disengenuous to those who disagree with him. You asked a good question and you deserved a good answer not contempt. What you need to understand about Elon is that he has a good handle on things. And has succeeded in pretty much everything he lays his hands on. His theory is correct and his ideas are entirely feasible. However there is certainly a question whether he will be able to achieve his goals. My opinion is that if you don’t try you will not succeed. Many have no idea what they are trying to achieve but Elon does. Many have mocked Elon’s ideas. Yet he continues to surprise us all

SamO | 05. September 2019

@madatgascar,

Thanks for watching it. I appreciate that you were able to keep an open mind and learn more about the subject.

Unlike some small minded cranks, you are able to change your mind when presented with new information. Kudos.

andy.connor.e | 05. September 2019

@SamO

Thanks for the video. Im surprised how far along they are. Im actually pretty interested in if they can make something that can enhance bandwidth between technology (the initial goal). Future is looking pretty awesome, thanks Elon!

SamO | 05. September 2019

Neuralink Animal testing under way. Human clinical trials “soon” but I recall 2020 was the goal. Elon is nothing if optimistic about timelines.

andy.connor.e | 05. September 2019

I'll soon have to decide if i want neuralink implant or Model Y

SamO | 05. September 2019

Neuralink is supposed to be as quick, painless and cheap as LASIK. Plus I think that quadriplegic “patients” will get first crack since FDA won’t approve for giggles until human tests on sick/injured subjects are finished.

andy.connor.e | 05. September 2019

thats what they said in the video. still want

SamO | 05. September 2019

Me too. But you will receive your Model Y (likely) way before you can go over to the Neuralink kiosk for your brain surgery. ;-)

SCCRENDO | 05. September 2019

@Sam0 is correct. Animals including primates first. then humans with conditions such as quadriplegia, blindness etc. Then the difficult part. Getting a sign off on experiments involving healthy humans
@andy. Perhaps you have some neurological defect that allows you to qualify. Just kidding. Just a bad joke.

andy.connor.e | 05. September 2019

Maybe if i keep reading mitches links, it will lead to neurological degeneration

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