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High rate of asymptomatic COVID infection in New York

High rate of asymptomatic COVID infection in New York

Orthopod | 23. April 2020

What is the R0 of an à symptomatic adult. Do they infect more because they still go outside and infect more or they infect less because they don’t have a lot of virus excretions from less symptoms?
Have you seen something on that

sabbia | 23. April 2020

@Ortho. Probably too early to tell what the transmission rate of asymptomatic people. What we do seem to know, based on NYC and southern California random tests, is that the number of infected people is much higher than the number of sick people. Although even that needs careful analysis.

The infection rate of non-symptomatic people is based on covid-19 antibodies. Who really knows what is being detected?

SCCRENDO | 23. April 2020

We don’t know. Theoretically someone who is coughing or sneezing out virus should be more infectious. But there are many examples including the restaurant example of Sanjay Gupta where an asymptomatic person infected up to 8 people at their table and the 2 adjacent over 53 minutes. Until we get good testing the answer is unknown.

jimglas | 24. April 2020

bump

diovicunli8227 | 24. April 2020

The worst thing is the virus without symptoms. A person cannot be treated because he does not feel that he is sick and besides, he infects the others and it seems to me that because of this, the virus will spread even more and soon, there will be a new, third wave! I am very afraid of the asymptomatic type of covid. My child often walks with friends despite quarantine, and I can’t get him to stay at home, so I came up with a very interesting solution. I searched for a long time where to buy the Covid Rapid Test, because testing in clinics is very expensive. I was very lucky, that in the end I came across https://x-covid.com and acquired about 50 tests from them. Now every two days I check all family members for the presence of covid-19 in the body. It seems to me that this is the only method to combat the asymptomatic virus!

jimglas | 25. April 2020

According to WHO, Infection may not provide immunity:
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-04-25-20-intl/i...

andy.connor.e | 25. April 2020

this is basically going to become another flu isnt it?

jimglas | 25. April 2020

No, its basically going to change the way we live

andy.connor.e | 25. April 2020

i've been thinking about that alot lately. what you're saying is not an understatement...

SCCRENDO | 25. April 2020

@iimglas. See my comments on another thread regarding antibodies and the development of a vaccine

FISHEV | 25. April 2020

"Young and middle-aged people, barely sick with covid-19, are dying from strokes"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-you...

"Clots that form on vessel walls fly upward. One that started in the calves might migrate to the lungs, causing a blockage called a pulmonary embolism that arrests breathing — a known cause of death in covid-19 patients. Clots in or near the heart might lead to a heart attack, another common cause of death. Anything above that would probably go to the brain, leading to a stroke."

This will lead to increased death rate from Covid-19 as these cases were listed as stroke but are really Covid-19 deaths.

rxlawdude | 25. April 2020

@FISH, this is what is disturbing about this virus. It seems to have very different organ system effects in different populations, some with apparently no adverse effects detected. Yet.

People a lot smarter than us have obviously recognized this bug, with high transmissability and variable effects does need to be treated differently than other communicable diseases.

We know patients recovered still shed viral RNA for extended periods of time. I certainly hope that this virus doesn't have a second phase of infection (ala chickenpox and shingles).

Yodrak. | 25. April 2020

"What is the R0 of an à symptomatic adult. Do they infect more because they still go outside and infect more or they infect less because they don’t have a lot of virus excretions from less symptoms?"

I question whether less symptoms means less virus excretions. Less symptoms may be a result of a persons overall health or genetic makeup being better able to deal with the virus.

SCCRENDO | 25. April 2020

@yodrak. Lots of unknowns. But as I have stated earlier an asymptotic carrier after 53 mins at a restaurant infected 4 people at their own table and 2-3 at the adjacent tables. So this is pretty infectious in the asymptotic. But I would suspect those sneezing as coughing are likely to be far more infectious.

Orthopod | 28. April 2020

« jimglas | April 25, 2020
No, its basically going to change the way we live »

Since I had my kids, for the last few years I prefered to go cycling in the early hours in the summer around 7AM to do my bid rides and come back around noon and spend the afternoon with the kids in the pool. This is in contrast with the years I was racing and training in pelotons ride starting at 10AM, chatting 20 minutes before departure, waiting for people to inflate their tires, waiting 15 minutes every ride for the classic flat tire change of someone with puncture, waiting 30 mins at the dinning break at the country store. This took the whole day from 10AM to 5PM for a friggin bike ride.

Now I do it all from 8AM to 10:30AM, back home with the kids around 11PM. Enjoying 2 days in 1, don’t have to risk falls from people hitting the front wheel of another cyclist, not having to wait for flat tires, people out of shape that can’t follow the wheel, and it’s a better training to beat the wind 100% of the time in the front.

Now group riding is prohibited, I can’t regret not putting me at risk of group riding anymore with the good old unintended sudden breaking of the group because of a squirrel or the group leader heading everyone right in a pothole.

Orthopod | 28. April 2020

*bike rides

SCCRENDO | 28. April 2020

Agreed. I also prefer riding alone

rxlawdude | 28. April 2020

When I bike alone, I prefer to be by myself.

SCCRENDO | 28. April 2020

@Rxlawdude. Good idea

SCCRENDO | 28. April 2020

I was having an issue with my glasses fogging up when wearing a mask particularly uphill. I found a great pair of riding glasses from Ryder a Canadian company. They fog up far less but I still have to lower my mask when riding steep hills and hyperventilating

Orthopod | 28. April 2020

I wear Oakleys and you wear Ryders

Such en interchangeable culture

SCCRENDO | 28. April 2020

How are your Oakleys with a mask on?

FISHEV | 28. April 2020

SCCRENDO | April 28, 2020 I was having an issue with my glasses fogging up when wearing a mask particularly uphill."

Get some of the sports nose clips. They are used to keep nose open but work great to seal top of mask over nose.

Masks in day to day setting are more so you don't infect others. While it might help a bit if you rode through a sneeze cloud from someone in your path, its more to protect others from you. Don't see why you'd wear one riding unless there are lot of people around.

I see people driving alone wearing masks, not sure they understand the concept. I give them a break and assume they forgot to take it off when they got into the car.

Too many people in the stores with no masks, I'd like to see mandatory mask in public rules. Some of the grocery stores like Whole Foods and New Seasons are requiring a mask. Lots of creative cloth masks out there. I use my UV fishing face masks.

Testing, tracking, isolating, masks and distancing are going to be keys for living with Covid 19 until vaccines start showing up.

Orthopod | 28. April 2020

I put a 2 inches 3M tape on the top of my mask to seal my nose from my glasses. No fogging. That’s what I have been doing in the OR to prevent any fogging for the last 10 years.

SCCRENDO | 28. April 2020

Because I have a pregnant daughter about to deliver any day. She is a hyper paranoid attorney who reads a lot and then has her own ideas of how we need to be safe. We are helping out with the other 2 kids as well so I obey her rules. I don’t think I need a mask when I ride but likely do when I walk along the beachfront. I have limited contact on my rides but occasionally end up at traffic lights next to cars with open windows, other cyclists without masks and occasional cyclists who pass me on a hill without warning, without a mask and 6 inches away from me. And they feel the need to shout some sort of greeting in my face.

FISHEV | 28. April 2020

"Is Routine Use of a Face Mask Necessary in the Operating Room?"

https://anesthesiology.pubs.asahq.org/article.aspx?articleid=2085803

Face mask may be going the way of the hair net, we can now wear the paper surgeons caps in the OR. Of course with Covid-19 and the issues of distancing, likely face masks by patients and staff from Pre-op to Post-op will be the standard.

SCCRENDO | 28. April 2020

We need to come up with more comfortable face masks if they are here to stay. Perhaps some kind of soft transparent material that fits comfortably and has an in built in microphone

jimglas | 28. April 2020

I mostly run on the treadmill now, to avoid possible infection (or infecting others as I am still in contact with COVID patients)
occassionally ride with my wife for cross training, but in the neighborhood on surface streets so dont meet up with many others

Orthopod | 28. April 2020

I wear a mask at all time because I am helping in nursing homes with over 80% Covid19 positive patients to protect my family and my dad who just had a diagnosis of bladder carcinoma so he’s gonna need chemo after resection. Poor him, he won’t be able to see his first granddaughter who is 2 months old and old her in his arms. His family doctor just called me to ask me if I noted cognitive deterioration in the last year because he.s not able to remember anything she tells him and he always give the phone to my mother. He was always emotional with medical diagnosis and when he learned he need a pacemaker he cried, I am eager to know the result of the MMSE she is gonna make him pass next week. He’s 77 years old but he looks 10 times smarter than Donald trump even with a light dementia.

FISHEV | 28. April 2020

@SCCRENDO | April 28, 2020 We need to come up with more comfortable face masks if they are here to stay. Perhaps some kind of soft transparent material that fits comfortably and has an in built in microphone"

We have to get away from disposable gowns. The amount of waste OR's generate is massive. Some way to be reusable and easily cleaned and sterilized for reuse. It's cheaper to import disposables but don't see it as sustainable.

As we are finding out, any hold up in the disposable supply chain has huge negative consequences.

It will have to be mandated by government with standards so those using the cheaper in the short term disposables do not have economic advantage.

If US can get Medicare for All going those kind of standards can be enforced.

SCCRENDO | 28. April 2020

I have bought myself 5 sets of scrubs for my return to work and will wear them until the crisis is over and undress in the garage after work

FISHEV | 28. April 2020

@SCCRENDO | April 28, 2020 I have bought myself 5 sets of scrubs for my return to work and will wear them until the crisis is over and undress in the garage after work.

Being in surgery, we always get scrubs supplied and dump them at least once a day and go home in street clothes.

Never undestood why this wasn't mandatory for the whole hospital. Wearing scrubs out of the hospital was always a bad idea.

jimglas | 28. April 2020

I have 10 pair of scrubs. They go immediately in the washer when I get home and I take a shower.

FISHEV | 28. April 2020

jimglas | April 28, 2020 I have 10 pair of scrubs. They go immediately in the washer when I get home and I take a shower."

But how many people just don't do that and wear them in the next day. Even if you wash, it's not a high temp disinfecting wash and then its around your house after washing picking up bugs and bringing them to sick peoples.

Scurbs should be supplied in house and professionally laundered.

SCCRENDO | 28. April 2020

What are the odds of transmitting COVID through laundry that is washed in someone who is treating lower probability infected people. I understand asymptotic people spread it quite aggressively but is likely far less than someone who is coughing or sneezing.

jimglas | 29. April 2020

laundry detergent is effective in killing the virus

derotam | 29. April 2020

@jimglas, just said we should eat and snort laundry detergent if you are infected to cure it!

derotam | 29. April 2020

:P

SCCRENDO | 29. April 2020

@Derotam Your teacher called and said you have been skipping school. Please go back to class

derotam | 29. April 2020

ohhhh!

jimglas | 29. April 2020

@derotam: I was suggesting injecting it as dear leader suggested

derotam | 29. April 2020

Hey, I just wanted to be clear as to what you were actually saying, haha

Orthopod | 29. April 2020

Yesterday I was cycling going uphill in Westmount
When 7ngitnti the top of the street there was a woman driver wearing a mask driving her Mercedes C43
The handyman on the other side of the street was getting out of his pickup without a mask, he greeted her by saying « Hi doctor Brown, how are you... »
She cut him off by screaming « You should be wearing a mask, this is unacceptable »
« Then he starts stuttering to find an excuse and turns toward his pickup driver window to search a inexistant mask »

I felt bad for the handyman, being schooled by that Westmount doctor in the middle of the street.

I passed right in the middle of the crossfire on my bike reaching the top of the hill

SCCRENDO | 29. April 2020

Do you think either of them sprayed COVID at you

Orthopod | 29. April 2020

Not as much as the coughing 91 years old COVID + woman I was evaluating Saturday for a Natremia at 153. Myoclonic with DNR. I hope procedure mask + visor as recommenced by public health task force for healthcare worker is enough.