Forums

400,000 km with 93% battery

400,000 km with 93% battery

georgehawley.fl.us | 29. August 2017

It is hard to know precisely how much the pack has degraded because there is no way to directly measure that but remaining rated miles at 93% of new is a very good sign.

andy.connor.e | 29. August 2017

Duration of usage is also a significant factor. Light usage for a 10 year period is different from heavy usage over a 2 year period.

georgehawley.fl.us | 29. August 2017

People pay a very large tax when they buy a car in Finland. Taxi drivers get a tax break as independent business men. They buy a nice car like a MB, drive it for a couple of years, keeping it immaculate and sell it, making a profit by virtue of the tax break. Tesla Model S makes sense. Economical to run and good in snow.

Mike83 | 29. August 2017

Degradation is possibly even lower for a normal user as he doesn't need to charge to high SOC for daily work.

Carl Thompson | 29. August 2017

This particular article misses a very important point: the battery had to be repaired / rebuilt / replaced / whatever once already so, no, they did not go 400k km on the original battery without a little help. But I guess they get more clicks by omitting that little detail. Here are different articles that mention the battery repair.

https://www.torquenews.com/1/finnish-taxi-driver-drove-tesla-model-s-250...

http://www.carscoops.com/2017/08/finnish-tesla-taxi-driver-has-covered.html

Carl

Mike83 | 29. August 2017
Rocky_H | 29. August 2017

@Mike83, Did you happen to notice that this is a FINLAND taxi? It's NOT the Tesloop car.

Mike83 | 29. August 2017

Yep. Just pointing out there are other cars with similar mileage and a software re-calibration was needed. I believe its estimated that 500,000 miles is possible with reduction to 80%. It is nice to see some people are paying attention.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 29. August 2017

Güdt.

tstolz | 30. August 2017

Yup ... EVs will last way longer than ICE-age cars! I've always maintained that used Teslas are currently way undervalued as a result ... the depreciation curve is currently only slightly better than ICE yet these cars will last more than twice as long by the look of it.

Personally, I'm at 130,000 km with less than 2.5% degradation and just $650 in maintenance. Historic fuel has been 1/3 vs gas.

redacted | 30. August 2017

I had to have my battery replaced at 51,000 miles. No warranty. Cost me $200.

Oh, you mean the other battery.

KP in NPT | 30. August 2017

Neither article Carl posted gives specifics about what battery issues the owner had - but he says in both that he's had no significant problems so it would seem whatever it was, it wasn't a big deal.

andy.connor.e | 30. August 2017

How do you guys post links? Every time i try to put a link in, it triggers spam filter.

dyefrog | 30. August 2017

Yea, it would be nice to know exactly what went wrong. Could have been a loose cable for all we know. It doesn't look like they replaced the battery like the Bolt is going through. I wonder if their issue was after the Tesloop issue and they had updated the firmware by then which was the Tesloop problem.

andy.connor.e | 30. August 2017

Tesla hasnt had the decades of tweaks and improvements to minor details like other car companies. This was probably something that helped Tesla make a change so to prevent this in the future. How can Tesla expect the ride-sharing thing to work, if their batteries are dying at 100,000 miles? Give em a chance they are new!

PhillyGal | 30. August 2017

@george is the one who schooled me on this and can speak in more exact terms but in a nutshell, "rated range" (that which shows on your screen) is based on an algorithym and thus can never be proven perfect. Driving is never perfect either so you may get more or fewer miles per charge than the screen says. (Speed, elevation, temps, etc.)

I say all this to say you should not focus on your alleged degradation when a year after you get your Model 3, you charge to 100% and notice it shows something different than the first time you charged to 100%. You'll never drive your car EXACTLY it's rated range without a charge because that would be too risky. That being said, losing a real (or algorithm shown) few miles of rated range is negligible when you have a 200+ mile EV.

I can't even say with certainty what my car battery shows at 100% state of charge because it's so rare to charge to that. I also can't say with certainty what my car showed new when charged to 90% vs. now because it's so negligible.

Range anxiety primarily exists before you get your car. Once you get it and get used to driving it; you'll rarely notice.

andy.connor.e | 30. August 2017

I've been driving for 9 years, and i've never had an estimated range. I look at the needle, and when it gets to about 1/4 remaining, i start paying attention to the next gas station.

My current cars gas meter has 8 bars, when it gets to 2 left, i do the same thing. The only thing giving you range anxiety, is the fact that you are much more aware of how far your car can travel on "1 tank". Otherwise, you're oblivious to it in your day-to-day life.

You're worried about battery degradation? I bet you've never considered how much mpg you lose when your gasoline car hits 10 years old. If its 1mpg lost, thats anywhere from 10-20 miles range lost. Theres your ~8% battery degradation!

The more you realize you dont know, the more you can relax about what you learn.

PhillyGal | 30. August 2017

@andy - Great points. Add in tire pressure and oil changes and plenty of ICE-driving folks "degrade" their "range" by all sorts of behaviors.

Mike83 | 30. August 2017

Another point is that my Model S battery could last 20 years!!!!! Just now the battery costs have made the 100's about $ 3500 cheaper and if that trend continues in 10 years a new battery might cost $ 10,000 with the old battery recycled or used as storage. Just some random thoughts.

andy.connor.e | 30. August 2017

I think the ideal goal here, is that in 10-15 years, when you normally get a new car, you'll be replacing a battery instead of purchasing an entire new car. That goes without saying that the rest of the car has to last. But i think the goal is to have the battery the only thing that will need replacement over a long period of ownership.

jordanrichard | 30. August 2017

Something else that gets overlooked/not noticed in these increasing number of threads/discussion over battery life, is that no one has had to replace the actual motor. Apart from the steel bearing motors which were replaced with ceramic bearing motors, none of these 100,000 - 200,000 miles cars have issues with their actual motors. Think about it. It is a service free item, apart from the every 4 yr coolant change. Try that in an ICE engine..

patswin | 30. August 2017

I had a Lexus lx470 which was about as good as it gets in terms of reliability. I put almost 250k "trouble free" miles on it. Still could not do it without replacing the timing belt, the points. Both very expensive repairs. Not to mention 50 oil changes over that time and speaking of time...
I wonder what the total time was I spent on oil changes. Maybe that battery repair is a necessary maintenance needed to maximize battery life. One trip to the service center for that vs the above requirements for a good reliable engine sounds much better

Carl Thompson | 30. August 2017

@Mike83:
"... if that trend continues in 10 years a new battery might cost $ 10,000 with the old battery recycled or used as storage."

I think that in 10 years buying a remanufactured or reconditioned battery for the Model 3 would cost considerably _less_ than that (in today's dollars). Hopefully half that.

@andy.connor.e:
"I think the ideal goal here, is that in 10-15 years, when you normally get a new car, you'll be replacing a battery instead of purchasing an entire new car."

Completely agree.

@jordanrichard:
"Something else that gets overlooked/not noticed in these increasing number of threads/discussion over battery life, is that no one has had to replace the actual motor."

The article that this thread is about says that that car's motor had to be replaced! The article also now says that the battery was repaired but I don't remember that being there the first time I read it... I wonder if the article was edited?

Carl

Tâm | 30. August 2017

@Carl Thompson

At 30,000 miles, Tesloop was running "super fast" with no power problem at all. It was surprised when Tesla called up and said your front motor was operating at lower power and Tesla swapped it out .

https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/29/tales-from-a-tesla-model-s-at-200k-miles/

It was a preemptive action before the front motor would fail completely.

30,000 miles seem to be very young for an electric motor, but if it can survive short mileage, it's likely to survive a very long time like the rear motor.

Mike83 | 30. August 2017

You need to go over tons of information. I'll try to summarize but I could be off a bit. The motors don't fail, it is the bearings in the drive unit that were metal causing a electroplating like effect causing the slight noise. It was easier to swap out the unit than change it. What they did, I believe was to use ceramic(or something like it) bearings and since then there has been no motor noise. The car has never been disabled due to this.
Software was the reason for many false losses in battery capacity which I believe is now fixed.
Elon is a perfectionist and will fix anything that seems wrong. Our P85 had the drive unit replaced at 30k miles in one day while we drove a loaner P85D. You won't find service like Tesla with most other companies; it is rare.

RedPillSucks | 30. August 2017

@andy.connor.e
As a point of agreement, my Camry Hybrid had an EPA rating of 40mpg. Its just 3 years old and I'm struggling to get 34mpg. That's a 15% reduction.

As for range anxiety, I'm old enough to remember when most gas stations weren't open at night. Traveling during the evening and night hours introduced lots of range anxiety in an ICE car. I'll adjust with my M3

Bighorn | 30. August 2017

With no major repairs reported, it's far more likely that the 12V battery needed servicing rather than the traction battery.