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Why it is important to link your opinions to credible sources. The danger of fake news.

Why it is important to link your opinions to credible sources. The danger of fake news.

I continue to wonder why people believe some of the drivel they post particularly as regards climate change. The Trump regime has mastered the art of fake news. Where dictatorships do this through censorship the Trump regime has succeeded in doing this in a democracy. Ask a simple question as to how the economy is doing and its amazing that alternate truths actually exist
http://cnnmon.ie/2gufyOA
All you need to know about politics is that most GOP voters thought the economy was dreadful in 2016, is booming now https://t.co/X6CtaX8osT
Via #CNNMoneyStream

DTsea | 01. September 2017

Opinions dont need sources if stated AS opinions.

Facts may. Problem with online fora is one cannot tell whether posters are themselves crediblr sources.

SCCRENDO | 01. September 2017

Unfortunately opinions are not always stated as being opinions. Again going back to climate change. Many deniers state abusive opinions including ad hominem attacks that are not accompanied by supporting sources.

Mike83 | 01. September 2017

Yes. If they don't have a credible reference and its their opinion I usually skip them. The troll numbers expanded so fewer people reading stuff. I have been using Google search to find the authors I have more trust in.

Dramsey | 01. September 2017

The problem is that it's possible to find links to support almost any opinion. Granted, the links I might post to support my assertion that the earth is flat will look sketchy enough to be readily discernible, but when arguing things like, say, the economy, respected experts can be found to support a wide range of claims, and even if the cited data is correct, it can be hard to interpret.

Even then, supporting data can be easily misinterpreted. For example, let's follow the link @SCCRENDO posted, the "all you need to know about politics" link. It leads to a tweet by someone named Dave Weigel‏, who in turn references a tweet by someone named Mark Murray, who referenced a chart from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. You can see this chart here:

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0000000001?output_view=net_1mth

A casual glance may lead you to think this chart shows "number of jobs over time". But that's not right; it's actually a graph of the net change in number of jobs _from one month to the next_. The numerical chart below it shows the number of jobs created in the first 8 months of 2016 vs. the first 8 months of 2017:

So, the total number of jobs? Burger-flipping jobs vs. professional? Temporary or part-time jobs vs. permanent or full-time jobs? This cited data tells you none of this, and people who are interested in the economy might find such data interesting.

It's there, if you want to dig for it. This is the BLS web site, after all. In the meantime, the existing chart performs the valuable service of proving that conservatives are stupid.

That said, there's data showing that most of the jobs created under Obama were low-wage jobs:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/28/business/economy/recovery-has-created...

...and that the unemployment rate in the first part of the Trump administration has fallen to its lowest rate since 2001:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/04/us-nonfarm-payrolls-july-2017.html

The lesson here is that if you want to really know, you gotta dig. Even with the Interwebz, this takes time and effort. Personally I find it much easier to simply regurgitate whatever sound bite reinforces my personal opinions and prejudices.

SCCRENDO | 01. September 2017

@dramsey. I agree with you. But that does support the point of my thread that we need to quote links so we can all evaluate it and discuss it. Your article from the New York Times was from 2014. But the point is the recession at the end of George Bush's term created a lot of job losses and the expectation that Obama bring all those jobs back was unreasonable. That he was bringing jobs back and improving the economy was a good achievement coming out of a recession.

Surely if Trump continues to produce jobs at the same rate as Obama unemployment will drop. In other words had Obama still around and jobs increased at the same rate as 1 year ago the unemployment rate would still be at this low level. So there is no evidence that the "jobs" president has contributed anything yet.

Also while you comment on the quality of Obama's jobs as a negative I do not see any comparison to the quality of Trump's jobs.

Generally you are pretty good about providing links when you are providing an alternate viewpoint. However many do not and get pretty belligerent. If you are preaching to the choir I agree its not necessary to provide links

RedShift | 01. September 2017

@dramsey

"Personally I find it much easier to simply regurgitate whatever sound bite reinforces my personal opinions and prejudices."

Me too. But that's probably not enough, given how things are right now.

Dramsey | 01. September 2017

“Also while you comment on the quality of Obama's jobs as a negative I do not see any comparison to the quality of Trump's jobs.”

It’s because I don’t care enough about the issue to do the research. I know little about macroeconomics; not even enough to know how you really evaluate the health of an economy. GDP? Unemployment rate? Average or median salary? Job distribution?

The only thing I feel fairly certain about is that some random statistic, posted in a tweet, two citations deep, with the purpose of showing one side is wrong or stupid, is probably not worth my time. I’ll stick to the engineering stuff.

SCCRENDO | 01. September 2017

@Dramsey. However you posted the snide comment about the quality of the jobs created by Obama. It is indeed a meaningless statement unless you have something to compare it to. So I will just take it as a meaningless unsubstantiated attack on Obama

sklancha | 01. September 2017

There have been very few links added to any posts here, that I've found worth investigating. I see most of them as nothing more than links that help justify your position. Of course, if you are silly enough to fight with another pOster about why you are right and they are wrong- those links can become the holy grail.

SCCRENDO | 01. September 2017

@sklancha. If you debate the factual value of a link then feel free to post data supporting your position, I posted a link from CNN money that seemed credible at face value. Dave Ramsey used it as an opportunity to attack Obama and thus indirectly defending or indeed praising Trump. If the criticism is valid support it. Otherwise don't use it as an opportunity just to attack Obama.

sklancha | 01. September 2017

@Scrrendo- that usually leads to rabbit holes that have nothing to do with the key point. In fact, on some threads, the rabbit hole fights get hostile and intense- but add nothing to the substance of the conversation. That being said, your point on the explosion of alternative facts being spewed as news makes intellectual debate, particularly in politics, very difficult. Add emotional divisiveness - it becomes more important to 'prove I am right' than to converse.

SCCRENDO | 01. September 2017

@sklancha. Rabbit holes are always a risk of posting on a forum. If the OP wants it to bear meaningful they need to skillfully redirect. I start many original posts understanding this. A couple have been very successful lasting months and occupying many pages. The interactive posts with Mitch have developed lives of their own even if they change direction. The 2 longest lasting threads were one I posted called "For Mitch" and a post by Mike. Unfortunately there was a point when miserable trolls came on and flagged them out of existence. We got them restored a few times but they were eventually lost. To me the topic is irrelevant. I define a successful post as something that lasts ans gathers many diverse people even if they get acrimonious.

Dramsey | 01. September 2017

@SCCRENDO,

OK, let's rumble.

"However you posted the snide comment about the quality of the jobs created by Obama."

Yes. Yes I did. But the idea here was to illustrate my proposition that it's fairly easy to find authoritative citations for many different positions.

"It is indeed a meaningless statement unless you have something to compare it to."

Um. No. The fact that most of the jobs in the recovery (circa 2014) were low-paying jobs is a fact that stands on its own. It doesn't need comparison for validation. If, for example, most of the new jobs created during the first 8 months of Trump's term were even lower-paying jobs, it wouldn't affect this fact.

"So I will just take it as a meaningless unsubstantiated attack on Obama."

You use this word "unsubstantiated". I do not think it means what you think it means. The data was collected by the National Employment Law Project, an organization that might politely be described as "left wing" (their work is approvingly cited by organizations like this:

https://socialistworker.org/2013/01/22/lies-about-the-minimum-wage

)...and reported by the New York Times, whose corporate motto is "We'd kill kittens for Obama." So personally I tend to give it rather a lot of credence.

SCCRENDO | 01. September 2017

@Dramsey. Job recovery is job recovery vs further job losses in a recession. The point is that Obama started the job recovery and it continued throughout his presidency. Compared to 2016 the continued job recovery in 2017 is just a continuation of the job recovery under Obama. Trump has done nothing to improve the situation. The positive is that he hasn't ruined the recovery as yet.

I realize it is early days but Trump during his campaigning complained about the poor economy under Obama and how he would turn it around. If the economy was that bad he has so far not changed that. If he now feels it is going well then I guess he needs to now give all the credit to Obama who initiated the recovery and is allowing him to now reap the benefit.

Should_I | 02. September 2017

All the major media outlets in the USA are biassed one way or the other, you will pretend the side you agree with is pure as the driven snow that used to exist before global warming.

Days before the election the liberal media tried to sway the election claiming a Trump election would cause a sell off and a Clinton election a rally.
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/02/this-is-what-could-happen-to-the-stock-m...

SCCRENDO | 02. September 2017

@Shoud_I. Can you tell the difference between the 2 links? The one I posted reviews the past job data of the first 8 months of this year vs the 1st 8 months of lat year. That is what we call a past critical evaluation. The link you posted would be a future prediction by one journalist that turned out to be wrong. Future predictions can be wrong particularly financial predictions. If they had a 100% accuracy record most of us would have kniown where to invest and would all be billionaires. In fact they probably would have been able to give me the future lottery numbers.

You are obviously one of the Republicans mentioned in the article who does not have the ability to critically evaluate articles and will only believe what is written on Breitbart or seen on Foxnews.

shreyash.v23 | 02. September 2017

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NKYTA | 02. September 2017

Some researchers just got a 300k grant to try and scientifically weed out fake news articles from social media. Will they do better than Facebook??

On slashdot.org

SCCRENDO | 02. September 2017

@shreash. You are a spammer. Flagged!!!!

bigd | 02. September 2017

NKYTA- we may in the wrong business. +1

bigd | 02. September 2017

Be

bigd | 02. September 2017

SCCRENDO- The problem with fake news, it is what they don't report....

SCCRENDO | 03. September 2017

@bigD. What the hell are you talking about for a change???

McLary | 04. September 2017

"state abusive opinions including ad hominem attacks"

You gotta love a thread where the OP speaks out against ad hominem attacks, but basically that is the only tool in their personal toolbox.........:) The hatred of Trump, combined with labels and name calling are only exceeded by the blind devotion to the religion of warmunism. A closed mind is a closed mind, and the OP's hasn't been open for business for many years.

DTsea | 05. September 2017

Why do you guys think any president 'creates jobs?' Links please.

SCCRENDO | 05. September 2017

@McLary. This site is aimed at people like you. You are a denier who does not understand science yet you persist in posting links to worthless denier blogs and fail to read the real science.

SCCRENDO | 05. September 2017

Sorry not site, post

Should_I | 05. September 2017

Wasn't long ago "settled science" was we were causing an ice age, then warming, now climate change. Next you will scream about Harvey and Irma BUT there is a long history or large hurricanes hitting these places, and a short history of our knowing the actual statistics associated with the storms. Cities flooding being worse is because we make the surface impermeable, not because weather differs that drastically.

Far as a President creating jobs, well they can by bloating the government, or they can support the creation of jobs by offering a friendlier environment for businesses.

Besides as Obama said "you didn't build that" ;)

SCCRENDO | 05. September 2017

@Should_I. This has all been discussed already. Please post a link to your ice age as settled science, The science clearly states that CO2 levels are rising, oceans are warming and sea levels are rising. Warmer sea air adds to the moisture of hurricanes and higher sea levels mean more flooding. If the oceans were a few inches lower Mitch's house in Houston would not have flooded.

As regards jobs please address the data rather than your wild speculation about how Trump became a superhero saving the world by accomplishing nothing in 8 months, pissing off our friends and enemies around the world and fueling hatred in the US.

finman100 | 05. September 2017

what an effing joke donald continues to be. wow. could there be anything more stupid than his supporters. stop being misled and actually use your brain. Don't get it? then at least try to learn.

Remnant | 06. September 2017

@finman100 (September 5, 2017)

<< what an effing joke donald continues to be. >>

You are way past grasping anything, but just keep this one thing in the vestiges of your wasted mind:
You have an advanced case of Trump Denying Syndrome (TDS), you are a "effing" Denier!

The TDS phases are:

(1) Hillary won, Hillary won, Hillary won (Delusion)
(2) Russia, Russia, Russia (Lie)
(3) Racist, racist, racist (Fake News)
(4) Impeach, impeach, impeach (Blind Hatred; Caution, you might start biting and kicking!)
(5) Profound dementia.

You are happily entering phase (5) of TDS, bleating nonsense.

finman100 | 06. September 2017

f##k you and all you "believe".

moulalisha9 | 22. September 2017

Some researchers just got a 300k grant to try and scientifically weed out fake news articles from social media. Will they do better than Facebook??
http://topkodiaddons.net/install-kodi-on-roku/

SCCRENDO | 22. September 2017

Remnant loves his high IQ president. Two children playing in the park. One calls the other one a “rocket man”, the other calls him back a “dotard”. Next we may see a Hydrogen bomb tested over the Pacific. And then who knows??Just like the game of risk we could lose the 2 Koreas, parts of Japan and have a pissed off China with chaos on its Southern border. I guess at least the children are happy.
North Korea could test hydrogen bomb over Pacific Ocean, says foreign minister
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/21/politics/kim-jong-un-on-trump-comments/ind...

Should_I | 22. September 2017

There was no wire tapping right? All the MSM told us so, oh wait there was and massive unmasking efforts that lead to nothing.
The Obama administration was the evil you pretend Trump's is. Dem or Republican you should be outraged by Rice and Power and a whole host of other things.

There wasn't enough for a Flynn investigation so info was illegally leaked to start a witch Hunt.

MitchP85D | 22. September 2017

Looks like to me that Remnant popped open finnyman's bottle cap! Captain Planet's is dangerously close to going next. Hang in there Captain Planet, I'm pullin' for ya!

SamO | 23. September 2017

I love how this thread starts as a recommendation on best practices for making sure good sources are cited for a position. And the conservative nincompoops have already lost their shit and are stooping to straight namecalling.

Lulz.

I mean, this is a microcosm of how conservative politics works now:

Human: Let's discuss the issues. My position is "X" and here's why. These are my five sources by PhDs with data to support that position.

Drumpkin: Fuck you, idiot! My source is this knuckle-sandwich. And my other source is this tweet.

Human: I object to your threats. You are wrong to replace arguments with violence.

Drumpkin: Antifa! Kapernick! Snowflake! #MAGA

And . . . scene. :-)

SamO | 23. September 2017

Oh . . . and don't forget:

Drumpkin: Both sides!

SamO | 23. September 2017

Here's alt-right icon and pedophile wanna-be Milos Yiannopoulos’ Planned ‘Free Speech Week’ Implodes Spectacularly

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/milo-yiannapoulos-berkeley-free-sp...

A microcosm of Trump's supporters and universe

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SCCRENDO | 01. Oktober 2017

Trump accuses Puerto Rico of watching fake news. Dear President. They do not have electricity. How can they watch fake news. They are seeing the real bad news on the ground in front of them.
http://time.com/4964214/donald-trump-puerto-rico-fake-news/

Remnant | 06. Oktober 2017

@SCCRENDO (October 1, 2017)

<< Trump accuses Puerto Rico of watching fake news. Dear President. They do not have electricity. How can they watch fake news. >>

Parts of the Power Plant, Grid and cell phone service (28.5% yesterday) have been restored and some Power Generators (Hospitals, Airport, some public buildings and high rises) have also been scattered/distributed throughout the island, although full recovery might last many months.

The PR people have not been forgotten by the Fake News industry; they have virtually full benefits of the pestilence.

SCCRENDO | 06. Oktober 2017

@Remnant. This was the situation just before Trump arrived after 10 days of golf
http://nypost.com/2017/10/02/only-5-of-puerto-rico-has-electricity-on-ev...

At least he threw paper towels at them. That should help.

Dofpic | 07. Oktober 2017

Plenty of fake news in the mainstream media. How about NBC and Tillerson. He comes out and has a press conference and makes them look like total idiots and shows them for the dishonest people they are yet they "still stick to their story" that Tillerson called him a moron after Tillerson tells them how wrong and petty they are. We have plenty of problems to solve in the country yet the media wants to focus on such petty garbage. They should be ashamed of themselves but they are not. Very telling.

SCCRENDO | 07. Oktober 2017

@Dofpic. NBC called it like it is. Tillerson was forced to give the press conference in order to keep the peace. John Kelley was the mediator. Trump has undercut Tillerson in many ways. Most notably by publically slamming him for stating that negotiations were going on with North Korea in an effort to calm the situation. I am not sure what news sources you watch but you obviously lack the ability to see through Trump’s propaganda
Tillerson's days seen as numbered as foreign crises boil
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/06/politics/rex-tillerson-donald-trump-state-...
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/interrogation/2017/10/th...

Open up your mind mind and try read things other than Foxnews

El Mirio | 09. Oktober 2017
David N | 09. Oktober 2017

"Why it is important to link your opinions to credible sources. "

hmm.....interesting comment.
and who is the one to decide what is a "credible source" and what is not a " credible source"

SCCRENDO | 09. Oktober 2017

@David N. Perhaps research your sources, cross check them and dont just believe Foxnews.

David N | 10. Oktober 2017

Why the constant mention of Foxnews?
Other than perhaps watching the local news here in Cleveland I've never watched Foxnews. Sorry but I don't watch TV a whole lot, too busy.

Remnant | 21. Oktober 2017

@SCCRENDO (October 7, 2017)

<< Tillerson's days seen as numbered as foreign crises boil ... >>

For one brief moment, you've become a credible source.

Yet, your grammar is as bad as ever.

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