Forums

Cost of not installing HUD interface

Cost of not installing HUD interface

I enjoy the Model 3 interior design. I sat in the Model 3.

I still believe the HUD could add great value.

How much would it be for Tesla to produce car witn the interface or complete HUD folks? Please charge 100% mark up if that is the problem, but please give what many customers want.

Am I alone on this?

eeb9 | 07. Oktober 2017

@ReD - when have you ever heard me ask for any of that...?

A HUD actually helps to *reduce* visual clutter and would seem to align perfectly with a minimalist approach

carlk | 07. Oktober 2017

ReD You probably know I came straight from arguably the best driver's car that fits the description, a 6 speed manual shift Cayman S, to my Model S. There is no comparision between the two. I mean whenever I got to the garage I always choose the Model S to drive.

RedShift | 07. Oktober 2017

@ReD

I always suspected you knew very little of what makes a drivers car based on your posts so far.

Model S is blessed with the possibly the best electric steering. (Better than the Giulia which I have test driven) It's non air suspension is tuned very well resulting in very good ride and handling compromise.

Do you own a Model S?

Reading MT's review, M3 promises to be great drivers car. Regardless of what you (apparently clueless) types say.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 08. Oktober 2017

RedShift: Perhaps you are unaware, but I tend to rather despise throwaway trite phrases that require an audience to simply 'know what I mean' instead of the speaker actually saying what they mean in a thoughtful in depth manner. 'Middle Class', 'Support Our Troops', 'Family Values', and a bunch of others fall into this category for me. They seem designed to illicit an emotional response so that the listener is led to agree with the speaker only because they think that person must agree with their own notion of what the phrase means, without actually saying so.

There's a guy at MOTOR TREND that I really like as a reviewer, Jonny Lieberman, but he uses the phrase 'real driver's car' far too often in Head-to-Head comparisons, but has NEVER defined the term -- at all. In multiple discussions here, eeb9 has used the same term. I was simply asking what that means to the rest of you. Because my observation has been that different people have varied needs or expectations for the driving experience they consider fun or engaging. For the sake of clear and accurate communication, I thought it best to define 'Driver's Car' once and for all, as dscussed in this venue.

I have Friends that are very into certain types of cars for different reasons. In our youth as 'car guys' we had many heated debates as to what configuration of a car was the 'best' interpretation of the beast. The great thing about ICE is that you can have a preference and argue its merits all day long, not convince anyone to join your side, and still declare 'victory' when you are done and remain Friends. Then do it all over again the next time you meet.

The closest that Jonny Lieberman ever comes is saying, "It's just more fun!" That isn't enough for me. I love driving. I will have fun being behind the wheel of ANYTHING. I don't care about amenities, features, options, fit & finish, 'luxury', cupholders, grab handles, lighted vanity mirrors, coat hooks, storage bins & cubby holes, the alignment of stitching, AM/FM/XM, HUD -- any of that stuff at all. If there is a steering wheel, a long skinny pedal on the right, and no metal spring is poking through the upholstery into my backside, I'm good. Rattling, clanking, and smoking diminishes the experience somewhat, but I'm not too picky.

Until now, I have been largely technology agnostic. I didn't care if it was throttle body injection or carbureted; automatic or manual transmission; disc or drum brakes; inline, V, H, or rotary/Wankel; turbocharged, supercharged, squeezed, or naturally aspirated; high displacement, low displacement, high compression, or high revving; air cooled or water cooled... It just didn't matter, as long as it WORKED.

To me, what works best is efficiency. The most energy efficient vehicles on the road right now are fully electric. I disagree with those who criticize a car for being 'too good'. I find it suspect when the biggest 'flaw' a reviewer finds with a car is that it is capable of doing all it is supposed to, while remaining flawless. As if 'character' requires a vehicle misbehave somehow. As if the nature of being 'fun' is built into the 'challenge' of doing something stupid, but being able to recover from your own mistakes anyway. Thus, any car that can be driven well 'too easily' is considered a 'soulless' vehicle and thereby NOT a 'driver's car'.

So, no -- I do not believe the fastest way around a track is sideways. No -- I don't need to bust doughnuts or do burnouts. No -- I don't need to set off car alarms for three blocks around just by driving down the street. And if those sort of antics are necessary for a 'driver's car' label to be applied, I will be elsewhere.

carlk | 08. Oktober 2017

Well I think you two Reds and myself actually agree with each other on this. Those "drivers" are so embedded in the only thing they know they have no idea how a better experience could happen. Red and I have talked about when Honda made the NSX it taught the Germans and Italians that it does not make a driver's car because one has to put great effort to work on the gated shifter or control the waggling tail. That single event changed how people think a sports car should be. Unfortunately things did not progress much since then until Tesla came along. For example many people are still talking about good engine sound, or noise. I've been in a car with the sweet naturally aspirated flat six inches from my ears for years and I don't miss it at all. The quite supply of limitless torque is much more satisfying to this driver.

accentcreate | 08. Oktober 2017

I want a HUD. I don't want autonomous driving.
I want an electric car that I can enjoy driving on narrow, windy mountain roads.
I am not keen on the whole screen concept. I have a small, pop-up screen on my current car (Peugeot 5008) that I put down for night driving as any illumination inside the car is dangerously distracting in the pitch black of the French countryside.

thedrisin | 08. Oktober 2017

The argument that HUD is not necessary because there will be FSD is fallacious. Most owners will not see FSD enabled during the length of their leases. It is not only the hardware/software solutions but legislation as well. It is extremely doubtful the legalization of FSD will occur anytime soon. Government moves very slowly.

carlk | 08. Oktober 2017

You're too late to the game. It has nothiong to do with FSD. Speed display on the center screen is as easy if not easier to see than the display behind the steering wheel and possibly safer than the HUD display on the windshield.

carlk | 08. Oktober 2017

Read discussions in this thread to see if you agree.

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/questions-single-display-potential...

RedShift | 08. Oktober 2017

@ReD

Okay, I grant you that I myself don't rely on MT, or for that matter any review. They tend to be shilled sometimes. I never buy a car without doing test drives, possibly with the exception of the M3, which I am still intending to buy despite the concerns about the display.

However, having lived with my Model S for 4.5 years and having test driven most newer BMWs and the Giulia and having poor opinion about their electric steering, I can tell you there are some really good chassis engineers at Tesla. I expeditiously went for the air suspension on my Model S, but when the regular one came out a few months later, and I test drove that one, I was blown away. Supple, yet firm.

So, having that history, I sort of 'trusted' MT's take on the M3. When you say Tesla will never make a driver's car (may be I thought you implied that when you didn't) I fe l like correcting that. I still hope for a good feedback from thon steering, and a supple suspension from the M3 - my two key criteria for judging a car. Apart from nimbleness - I am taking that one for granted, from the lower curb weight.

Finally, I also don't care for 0-60. Or how many horses under the hood/rear seats.

carlk | 08. Oktober 2017

RedShift I remember someone mentioned years ago Model S chassis engineer came from Ford GT. Not sure if same people are there to design the Model 3 but no doubt Tesla has some very capable chassis people.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 10. Oktober 2017

RedShift: carlk did a good job of characterizing my position. I'm really only challenging the statements that imply the Model 3 will not be or cannot be a 'real driver's car' without instrumentation behind the steering wheel or in a driver-centric HUD. When I have driven the loop from Piuma Canyon Road to Mullholland Highway to Stunt Road and back, I have never looked at the instruments. I judge the course by the seat of my pants and I am looking out the windshield or side windows the entire time. If there were a HUD in those situations I would absolutely ignore anything it had to display. Seeing the road is far more important to me than anything else when navigating 'the twisties'.

RedShift | 10. Oktober 2017

Well. I've never suggested that a drivers car needs instruments in front. I've said that it is a safety issue, for which I've gotten pretty insulting comments, so I've decided it's a waste of my time to argue.

bogunsjohn2000 | 10. Oktober 2017

Red, why introduce a HUD that you find in other cars?
So is Tesla ready to launch a 3D hologram system to substitute the HUD? I have not seen it. If not, that is what we have got. I know you dont like to hear any feedback that goes against the Tesla design, but that is a reality.

eeb9 | 10. Oktober 2017

It’s pretty clear that we each have our preferences and opinions.

And equally clear that we’re not moving off of them.

I plan to keep nudging Tesla about a HUD, though i’m also quite aware that it’s on the order of trying to push on a string. Uphill no less.

For whatever reason, they seem to have decided that it doesn’t fit with their vision. Leaves me truly scratching my head, right along with the (current/seeming) lack of support for AM and Satellite radio... but we get what we get.

I’ll keep asking though.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 10. Oktober 2017

eeb9: That's the spirit! Never give up! Never surrender!

Rutrow | 10. Oktober 2017

ReD's given eeb9 a nice Churchill quote. To Elon et.al. at Tesla I offer another. "If you're going through hell, keep going!"

andy.connor.e | 10. Oktober 2017

Those who manufacture the necessity for the HUD, will be the type of people who find a necessity for everything they want in a car. If you give in once and give them the HUD, they will do it again and again with everything they want. Theres a point where you do not submit yourself to your consumer pool, and you make decisions for the greater good of the future, and not for peoples feelings. Dont like the HUDless design? There are plenty of other companies to buy from. It is not Tesla's job to "give you want you want", as is true with any other company.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 10. Oktober 2017

Rutrow: Really? I meant it as a quote of Commander Peter Quincy Taggart from 'Galaxy Quest' (1999). ;-)

andy.connor.e: +21! Agreed. I've been suggesting that people who want a fully electric Camry to contact Toyota; those who want a fully ekectric Lexus to let them know, a fully electric AUDI, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, et al to let them know that for over three years now. Because really, Tesla can't do it all themselves, and no matter how much I like their products, Tesla can't be expected to meet everyone's needs.

eeb9 | 10. Oktober 2017

@ReD - on what makes a “Driver’s Car”

To a certain extent, given that there’s no formal definition, we each can make it up as we go...

I’d posit though that there are a few things that fall under the umbrella term that we can at least use as a starting point. I’m not going to use any specific number here - more a “first principles” approach.

I posit three core principles in the “Eeb9 Driver’s Car Universe”:

First is that the car be performance-oriented. That is, it has at least the ability to get out of its own way and navigate a challenging bit of road or track with grace and authority. Some cars use raw power and torque to achieve this, some use handling characteristics and some use a combination of both. The car should significantly out-perform contemporary passenger-carriers in acceleration, handling or (preferably) both

Second is that the suspension tuning favors road feel and handling over comfort to at least some extent. The driver should feel confident that they can *feel* what’s happening where the tires are making contact with the road and how the car is responding to control inputs with a minimum of lag.

Third is that the controls and inputs are designed to allow the driver (most important occupant) to access all of the car’s abilities, information and systems with a minimum of distraction. This can be achieved any number of ways.

The Model 3 meets the first two criteria rather handily, based on initial reports and published data.

My question is on the third point. And I know that the advise is to try out the display and controls before passing judgement.

Cool. I plan to do just that. Thing is, we have no HUD-equipped Model 3 to compare against to see if in fact there’s no experiential difference.

At least with other makers, you can try a direct side-by-side comparison and make an informed decision. For BMW and MINi at least, the difference is big enough to have led me to include HUD availability as a make/break decision point in buying a new car.

I still don’t get why Tesla won’t offer it even as an added-cost option.

I also wonder why so many people seem so defensive about the whole thing. If Tesla designers tested a HUD and found it to be unnecessary, i’d be interested in knowing their reasoning. If they didn’t include it because it might make the 3 somehow more advanced than the S/X, cool - i’d like for them to say so. If they prefer to focus on FSD-related tech and truly believe that the driver is going away as a long-term design factor, i’d like to know that as well.

But a flippant “you won’t care” is demonstrably incorrect... not to mention truly insulting to those who *do* care

andy.connor.e | 10. Oktober 2017

If you dont like the Tesla design, dont get a Tesla.

If you like the BMW design but want that in an EV, thats not Teslas problem. Thats BMW's problem for not making an EV. Show your consumer demand, or purchase what is available.

Frank99 | 10. Oktober 2017

>>>But a flippant “you won’t care” is demonstrably incorrect... not to mention truly insulting to those who *do* care

I do agree with you on this; though I don't agree that Tesla has any obligation to tell you anything about their decision making process and reasoning.

carlk | 10. Oktober 2017

@eeb9 "the difference is big enough to have led me to include HUD availability as a make/break decision point in buying a new car."

That's great. I'm all for an easy decision.

eeb9 | 10. Oktober 2017

;-)

I forgot to include the requisite “your mileage may vary” caveat in my post above...

We all have our own priorities. I completely respect and understand that as a foundational principle underpinning our competitive market.

I appreciate the opportunity here on this forum to both share and argue the merits of our respective approaches with a minimum of venom and vitriol (compared to some other places i’ve seen).

2015P90DI | 10. Oktober 2017

Many are saying once FSD is active, nobody needs a gauge panel. This is Tesla's excuse for not putting it in, despite the fact that it was purely cost savings.

First, FSD is NOT available, likely won't be available to the point where no driver input is required for several years. Considering many lease their cars for three years or sell them after that time period, it's probably safe to say your car is going to need you throughout the time you own/lease it. 3 years is nearly a model generation for some. So if the only reason was because of FSD, it doesn't apply to the Model 3.

Next, if if FSD is activated tomorrow, does the most technologically advanced man in the world not realize that some (many) people, if if they're not driving, still want to know what's going on? I love all the information I can configure between the two screens of the Model S. I hated when Tesla changed the software to remove the icon bar at the top of the center screen, requiring another step to reach your chosen app on the screen. I want to be able to constantly have the information available in one glance rather than having to constantly change what's shown.

Next, who wants to constantly look sideways for everything. OK, so if FSD is activated tomorrow, you don't need to pay attention, but I still want to know my trip data, still want to know the speed I'm being driven at, still want to know how much battery I have left, still want to see the energy usage, still want to see when the next turn is for my destination, still like seeing how the car is viewing its surroundings, all without having to turn my head or detour my eyes far from the road.

Next, I don't know about everyone else, but I get nervous as a passenger, not being in control. I also like driving. I enjoy AP in my current Tesla in certain circumstances, but certainly not all of them. It does not drive like I do. I constantly take over to make quick lane changes because AP takes too long to react to the blinker or it over-reacts to a car it "thinks" might be coming into the lane, etc...

Finally, safety. I still can't convince myself, that for likely the next three years, I'm going to have to detour my eyes off to the side to get ALL of the info I need rather than just having them a few inches straight below my line of sight. Again, with less space, not everything will be visible at the same time. That means flipping through menus to find what you need. That's, no matter how you Tesla faithful want to defend it, IS A DISTRACTION.

At least a HUD would reduce that. I love it on my GM products. Can be configured how you want it and literally is in your line of sight.

For a car company, I can't image, on a mass produced vehicle, especially one with Tesla technology, it would have cost more than $100 additional on each car to add a 2nd gauge panel or HUD system to the car.

If you really want to satisfy both worlds, Elon's simplistic design choices with what most people really want, could have made it a flip up panel that when closed, looks as it does now, however, similar to some Navigation screens, could rise from the dashboard or tilt up for those that WANT it.

I love my tech. Still holding out hope that it will look different to me when I see one in person. But still can't get myself to like the interior dashboard look of the Model 3. The rest of the interior is fine. But for a $50,000 car, that dash looks so plain and unfinished, in my opinion.

I guess sales will be the tell tale. Like with many things Tesla, I'm betting that a gauge panel or HUD will show up. at some point as they get real world feedback. Certainly without a doubt, there are going to be many people that just hate it and will not buy the car. Why would Tesla remove themselves as an option to those buyers for something so simple?

andy.connor.e | 10. Oktober 2017

P90DI

If this is a concern for yourself, then the answer is simple. If you dont like it, get something else. If you're concerned about safety, dont get it. If passengers concerns is a problem, dont get it. To recap, if this is a personal concern over the car, there are other companies to buy from.

If this is a question about Tesla surviving, why do you even care. Unless of course you have alot of money invested in this company. Then i'd say theres a conflict of interest.

Tropopause | 10. Oktober 2017

HUD- Heads Up Driving.

FSD- Full Self Driving.

Do you want a HUD in your taxi, bus, limo, etc.? No, we want more room, comfort and amenities.

eeb9 | 10. Oktober 2017

@Tropopause

I’m not buying a taxi, limo or bus

I’m buying a car that I want to drive - very different things, those...

andy.connor.e | 10. Oktober 2017

Buy the car without FSD. If the HUD is a make-or-break for you, i recommend a different company. Or a Model S/X.

mos6507 | 10. Oktober 2017

"If you give in once and give them the HUD, they will do it again and again with everything they want."

Oh, the horror! A car company offering options! What terrible business strategy is this?

Rutrow | 10. Oktober 2017

@ ReD, "I meant it as a quote of Commander Peter Quincy Taggart from 'Galaxy Quest' (1999). ;-)"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Maybe that's who Churchill stole it from. I always get nervous attributing quotes. Perhaps I should just say whose voice I hear when I say it in my head, but then most would be either Morgan Freeman or Gilbert Godfrey.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 10. Oktober 2017

eeb9: I encourage you to stick to your beliefs and fight for what you want. The time may come in a couple of years, after Tesla is pumping out Model 3 Sedans at a brisk clip and Model Y is on the near horizon, that I post a similar thread stating all the reasons why I don't care for Sedans and would really love to have a Model 3 Coupe. Some have already posted about their strong need/want status for an Estate/Wagon or 'shooting brake' ~*brack*~ design. To each his own and stuff. So if very few people request HUD or a Coupe body style, they won't come to fore as options.

Again, I am not against a HUD on Model 3, I'm just a bit more understanding of its absence than you are. If any HUD impressed me to the level that has satisfied you in other marques I'd be right there with you. Just understand that when it comes to dedication to HUD you may be in the minority, just as I am in my preference for Coupes. Tesla has shown a tendency to drop options that do not have at least a 5% uptake before. The margin may be wider, around 15%-to-20% with Model 3. Do not be surprised when certain exterior colors disappear as options within the next six months.

eeb9 | 10. Oktober 2017

@ReD - i’m with ya on the Coupe. Or hatch, or Shooting Brake/Estate... please god anything but another sedan or SUV!

:-)

KP in NPT | 10. Oktober 2017

You guys are still talking about this? ;-)

eeb9 | 10. Oktober 2017

It’s an evergreen topic... :-)

Iwantmy3 | 11. Oktober 2017

KP,
Are we still talking about this? Yes.
This issue appears to represent the intersection between those who are looking for one small, yet not insignificant addition to the car vs. those who will never accept that Tesla could ever produce anything short of perfection on their first try. It is the battlefront between those who will push for what they want vs. those who will fight for the status quo simply because they were told that they "won't care".

That's why I enjoy reading this thread more than any other on this forum. :-)

andy.connor.e | 11. Oktober 2017

@mos6507

The more options you have, the larger your production line diversity, the higher the production cost. Tesla can succumb to every individual want on the planet, but dont expect that the car you want to buy is going to be anywhere nearly as affordable as it is right now.

eeb9 | 11. Oktober 2017

@andy

No argument there. Options cost

Rocky_H | 11. Oktober 2017

@andy.connor.e, Quote: "The more options you have, the larger your production line diversity, the higher the production cost. Tesla can succumb to every individual want on the planet, but dont expect that the car you want to buy is going to be anywhere nearly as affordable as it is right now."

Yes, I would totally understand that, because it's true. What is irritating is the hand waving "it's not good for you" "you shouldn't want it" attitude, which is B.S.

andy.connor.e | 11. Oktober 2017

No one is saying you shouldnt want it. Want does not equal necessity. As i've been saying, the Tesla design is the Tesla design. Its not the one and only EV on the market to purchase. My principal, is you cannot justify necessity when its foundational argument comes from want.

I am not aware who is, but i am most certainly NOT on argument side saying you shouldnt want it. You can want whatever you want, but its a question of realistically, its not going to happen. So for the people who want to pick apart everything they dont like, you can either focus on the things you do like and appreciate it for what it is, or you can choose to focus on everything about it that you hate. Its definitely different, but theres no sense complaining about what you dont like. Because in the end, just like every other product out there, if you dont like it, buy from a different company.

eeb9 | 11. Oktober 2017

@andy -Tesla has a track record of adding functionality over time when they find that it’s become an issue.

This is evident in both the Model S and the Model X

My hope is that it will be the same with the Model 3 and that some of the future added functionality will include both a HUD and Satellite Radio.

Will it happen? Dunno. I know a non-trivial number of people (judging by the responses to-date in this and related threads) are hoping so.

I’m planning to keep the issue front and center. The Tesla Design Team should never have the excuse of saying “we didn’t think anyone cared” for things like this.

mos6507 | 11. Oktober 2017

"The more options you have, the larger your production line diversity, the higher the production cost. "

That's not Tesla's ethos, though. Tesla relies on (overpriced) options to increase margins on its cars. Tesla is all about options. And the only Model 3 coming off the assembly line is, in effect, a pre-optioned car. It's NOT the base model. You can argue where Tesla should draw the line on options, but not that they shouldn't offer them.

If there's a highly vocal minority who want a HUD, offer it already! Charge far more than it costs to put it in there (which is par for the course with Tesla options) but just do it. It will be a net gain to Tesla's bottom line rather than this arrogant and confrontational "NO!" and "you won't care!" nonsense.

andy.connor.e | 11. Oktober 2017

Theres no excuses, because theres no promises. Gonna have to get over missing out on your wants.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 11. Oktober 2017

Back to the HUD Again...

Iwantmy3: Perfection, for me, would be a Tesla Model 3 P135D Ludicrous Coupe with Falcon Wing Doors and a Liftback. So, the Model 3 Long Range Sedan falls a bit short of that dream, but is still worthy of consideration over anything from Acura, Alfa Romeo, AUDI, BMW, Cadillac, Infiniti, Jaguar, Lexus, or Mercedes-Benz -- including their few available Coupes. I do hold out hope that Tesla will provide my brand of 'perfection', or something much closer to it... SOON.

But no, I do not by any means consider Tesla infallible. I'm just a lot more willing to forgive perceived faults and foibles than are others here. Admittedly, that is because I am your Friendly Neighborhood Over-the-Top Optimistic Tesla Certified Apologist Fanboy. So, I am willing to meander about my musings as to logical reasons they may have chosen to NOT do something that some find 'necessary' or to NOT include some features that a few believe should be 'standard'. Also, I have a tendency to accept at face value whatever reasons Tesla might provide for their decision making process, rather than being skeptical or critical of business decisions that to me, seem perfectly logical from a certain point of view.

It would have been nice if Model 3 had been unveiled as a Sedan, a Coupe, and an Estate/Wagon. It is understandable that it has only been shown as a Sedan.

It would be nice if the Model 3 had grab handles and rear windows that go all the way down. It is understandable that grab handles simply are not part of the Tesla design language and that the choice of frameless door windows may preclude rear windows rolling down completely.

It would be nice if the Model 3 had a lift back, like its siblings. It is understandable that Tesla decided to maximize interior headroom in the rear seat by not having a rear crossmember above those seats.

It would be nice if Model 3 included a HUD, especially if some new fangled hard light holographic systems had been developed to allow a fully immersive virtual augmented reality experience. But as the Model 3 is the entry level vehicle from Tesla, such advanced hardware shoiukd debut in the Model S and Model X Tesla Generation II vehicles if it is ever developed. Besides, a driver-centric display system hearkens more to tradition than necessity. A better view of the road ahead can be achieved without a binnacle in the way, while contributing to a more 'open' cabin interior.

Ultimately, there are reasons for the things Tesla does. We may not agree with those reasons. We may have different perspectives on how what they do may affect their future. And it is possible to discuss all of that in a tactful, respectful manner. Possible, but not guaranteed.

andy.connor.e | 11. Oktober 2017

^
Being understanding is step 1. Being appreciative is step 2. If 1 or 2 or both are not acceptable, neither is Tesla. Those of you who fall in that category, should re-evaluate "necessity". What you think you need might not actually be necessary.

Yodrak. | 11. Oktober 2017

"a non-trivial number of people (judging by the responses to-date in this and related threads)"

My observation is that the number of people participating on this forum is trivial in comparison to the number of people who have reserved a Model 3. The number of people calling for a HUD is well beyond trivial, as is the number of people who are questioning the value of a HUS. What's non-trivial is the number of people who could care less about the issue.

carlk | 11. Oktober 2017

"Tesla is all about options."

Did you check option lists of Porsche or MB? What an idiot!

Yodrak. | 11. Oktober 2017

"Tesla is all about options."

Name me a car company that isn't.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 11. Oktober 2017

"Porsche relies on (overpriced) options to increase margins on its cars. Porsche is all about options."

~*ahem*~ FiXED!

mos6507 | 11. Oktober 2017

["Tesla is all about options."

Name me a car company that isn't.]

That's my point. Tesla fanbois just conjure up excuses out of thin air without thinking them through.

The HUD thing is Tesla's iPhone headphone jack moment.

Pages