Model 3

FACT CHECKING COUNTDOWN: An Anti-FUD, Anti-Troll Theorem Thread

edited September 2018 in Model 3
● FEAR -- Fear that Tesla is in fact some sort of scam that is pushing the Green Agenda for nefarious purposes...
-- Fear that you might be counted among the number of FOOLS that have been led astray by pie-in-the-sky 'promises' that are certain to NEVER happen...
● UNCERTAINTY -- Uncertainty that Tesla's cars will ever be viable for more than a handful of months or years and that the batteries will die practically overnight then be ridiculously expensive to replace...
-- Uncertainty that anything Tesla builds will be 'worth the money' in any way, without the traditional styling, commitment to craftsmanship, attention to detail, and dedication to heritage that 'everyone else' claims to excel in...
-- Uncertainty that you may have fallen under the spell of a fast talking flim-flam man, shyster, or lying con artist who has preyed upon your deepest hopes to deceive you...
● DOUBT -- Doubt that Tesla will be around to handle warranty concerns after they go out of business in disgrace following the shenanigans of Elon Musk are inevitably exposed for the manipulative lies they've always been...
-- Doubt that Tesla has the expertise to do anything at all they claim to be planning...

These are the tools that Trolls use to spread their Theorem, Thesis, & Theatrical displays of alarm and warning that nothing anyone hears about Tesla that is in the slightest bit positive can be trusted at face value. They tell anyone that listens that supporters of Elon Musk and/or Tesla are 'blind followers' that don't know any better, steeple that have fallen under the spell of a master manipulator and complete liar. A false leader with the sole goal of selling his lies as fact to gullible followers.

Trolls have suggested for several years that Tesla is destined to go out of business 'any day now'. Some of the most famous Trolls are Anton Wahlman, Edward Niedermier, Keefe Wivaneff, and others.

Crap. Deleted my post by mistake. Starting over with an earlier save...

Anyway, lost a good bit of what I had written before. Since HIM666 refuses to specify when Tesla is 'going out of business' I'll assume that since his previous guesses were wrong (he indicated multiple times between October 2017 and March 2018 that Tesla would 'run out of money and go bankrupt within two quarters'), he might choose a time frame in the relative near future to be wrong this time. So, he would likely claim that no one, anywhere, will order or receive the base, Standard Range Model 3 prior to January 1, 2019, and also claim that Tesla will file bankruptcy on, by, or before March 31, 2019.

We'll see.


  • edited September 2018
    Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business. So much for 'any day now'. So, Trolls were wrong today.
  • edited September 2018
    Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business. What a big surprise. Really it was. Let's see how things go tomorrow.
  • edited September 2018
    Relevance to M3? This should go in General.
  • edited September 2018
    Trolls claim as part of their FUD Theorem that the more cars Tesla builds, the closer they get to bankruptcy. Tesla builds more of the Model 3 than any other vehicle. Thus, they believe Model 3 Production is driving Tesla to bankruptcy. Let's keep track, to see if their thesis is in fact, correct. In the interest of transparency and visibility, this should definitely be in the Model 3 forum.
  • edited September 2018

    I think you meant to write “sheeple” instead of steeple?
  • edited September 2018
    Yeah - The Tesla "Death Watch" has been going on for years. Elon makes fun of it in a 2015 interview. Search YouTube for "Elon Musk 2015 Detroit Auto Show Full Interview" Elon also debunked the govt loan criticism and other myths that somehow continue to circulate even today.

    As an aside, it's a fun interview to watch because it reminds us how far Tesla has come since Jan 2015. In Jan 2015 Gigafactory construction had just started, and Model 3 was in early design phase.
  • edited September 2018
    johnse: Yeah, I had corrected that in an earlier version, before accidentally erasing my work. I was pretty proud of it all, but probably should have saved more often. Like at least every paragraph. A shame there is no built in 'Undo' or 'Redo' function in Android that I can find...

    cascadiadesign: It created a Tesla History playlist on YouTube that is fun to use as a means to reminisce. It contains videos going back to 2008. The level of vehemence by which Tesla Haters demanded that NO ONE should or would buy their cars or invest in the company is truly amazing. Those NaySayers are still around, but none of them have backed up even a single inch from their prior statements, predictions, accusations, or FUD. Much like HIM666, they are dedicated to seeing Tesla go down for good. Especially the ones who were certain that Elon Musk would fail catastrophically this time and that no one would 'bail him out' as they claimed had been done with his other companies. They really liked calling him a 'serial entrepreneur' for some reason, to make it seemed he lacked focus and dedication maybe, and never noted how he, personally, never wanted to sell any of them. Both Zip2 and PayPal were unfinished business from his perspective. He had planned to do a lot more with them. I'mean glad he'll get to FINISH with SpaceX, Tesla, and SolarCity. The Boring Company and Hyperloop should end up in spectacular fashion as well.
  • edited September 2018
    Elektric had an article last week all about how Tesla is now 10 years dead, according to the initial FUD efforts. It was quite funny. Unfortunately for the FUDsters, not only has Tesla failed to expire as predicted, THE MISSION IS ALIVE AND WELL, AND PROSPERING.

    The death of The Mission is truly the ultimate aim of the Filthy FUDsters. Not only is it alive and well, it is spreading into the rest of the auto industry.

    Evidence of that spread appears on a daily basis - recent evidence is the Reuters article I linked in another thread today about the Mercedes Tesla Killer or some other such title. Also today I read another report about GM of all organizations getting into the charging business, planning to outdo Tesla with 180 mile in 10 minute charging.

    The Mission abides and thrives.
  • edited September 2018
    gballant4570: I've noticed how major news organizations with 24-hour news channels, the ones that depend upon advertising revenue for support, strategically never cover Tesla's stated MISSION in any substantial fashion at all. When they talk about the 'history' of Tesla, they make sure to hit certain points of interest... nearly closing Tesla before Elon Musk put his last dime in the project, having manufacturing issues with the Roadster, reports of Tesla car fires, the extended WAIT for Model X, Elon's outspoken, 'boastful' nature, and 'charismatic showmanship'... but they always steer wide and clear of The MISSION Statement from 2006 or Tesla's progression toward goals outlined there since, broad sentiment from ANALysts when Tesla announced an intention to sell perhaps 20,000 units of Model S per year worldwide, how Tesla paid back the entire Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing program loan to the Department of Energy nine years early, including iinterest and penalties five years ago, while neither Ford nor Nissan have followed suit for many multiples more money. Maybe the journalists took the '· Don't tell anyone' bullet point to heart?

    The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (just between you and me)
    Elon Musk, Co-Founder & CEO of Tesla Motors
    August 2, 2006
  • edited September 2018
    Really disappointing it is. Some people just can't see a good thing even right in front of them.
    The mission of Tesla always seems obscured by "important facts(usually negative) when the most valuable part of the company is its mission, which appears to be not only on track, but accelerating seriously.
  • edited September 2018
    I have every confidence on Tesla and Elon Musk. The company may not be perfect but it is better than any competitor.

    I won’t buy another ICE car ever again because of Tesla
  • edited September 2018
    Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business. I'm not too surprised that 'any day now' hasn't come yet. I seem to remember that HIM666 claimed that traditional automobile manufacturers would be picking over the bones of Tesla in bankruptcy proceedings by now...
  • edited September 2018
    Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business. Well, this must be mighty frustrating for Anton Wahlman, Edward Niedermier, and Keef Wivaneff. They've generally expected Tesla to die off every day since 2007. Does anyone else feel the same anymore?
  • edited September 2018
    I think tomorrow is the day
  • edited September 2018
    spuzzz123: We'll just have to see...

    In the interest of 'fact checking'... It seems that 'The Truth About Cars' original thread of blog posts concerning Tesla were called 'Tesla Birth Watch'. The instant that it was reported any of the completed examples of Tesla Roadster had been Delivered to a paying Customer in 2008, they began the Tesla Death Watch. Of course, the sentiment behind the Tesla Birth Watch had always been the Tesla Roadster was vaporware and that it would be stillborn, or that Tesla would go out of business without delivering a single one, ever.

    TMC | TTAC: Tesla Born! Birth Watch Over! (begins Death Watch) May 15, 2008
  • edited September 2018
    Ha may 15 2008 was my 40th birthday
  • edited November -1
    Tesla is so structurally ahead of its competitors. The proof is that VW was willing to pony up billions to own a small piece.

    Charging Network: ~$400-$600M* dollars and years invested in Super/Destination relationships at key locations connecting highways. Another $ billion more TO BE spent on 50-stall stations, MegaChargers and restaurant/lounge stations throughout the country over the next 3-5 years.

    $15k/-$30,000/Supercharger stall
    $1500/Destination stall

    That sounds like small potatoes, but you can't catch Tesla more quickly with more money. Planning, permits, red-tape and landlord agreements take years. There's only one network like Tesla, today.

    If you go to Walmart . . . then you have the Walmart car and the margins associated therewith. Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche: all "Tesla Killers" want to associate with this brand? lol.

    There are answers, but dealerships aren't it.

    We'll see what the market delivers outside of OEMs. Tesla's position looks great far into the future.

  • edited September 2018
    SamO: Indeed. As time has progressed, all of the 'crazy' things Tesla has chosen to do have turned out to be the RIGHT thing to do. All of the 'alternatives' that others suggested are now clearly the WRONG thing to do.

    Plug-in hybrid range extension did NOT work for either Fisker Karma or Chevrolet VOLT. One is out of business, the other has been outsold every year since 2013.

    'Cheap', low capacity, short range, compliance cars without DC fast charging have NOT worked for anyone, anywhere -- none have been successful. Building expensive cars around a 'big battery' and making the most of range and performance with a target set on 'NO COMPROMISES' worked just fine for Tesla despite the projections of their detractors.

    Fisker, Coda, and others used traditional means of distribution, 'independent franchised dealerships'... They went out of business. Tesla chose to sell direct, allow the products to speak for themselves, allow word of mouth to bring in new Customers, and spent nothing on traditional advertising via print, radio, or television.

    General Motors stated they had no interest in starting or participating in a charging network to support the BOLT. Tesla chose to announce and continually expand the Supercharger network, both nationwide and internationally. All their current vehicles may take advantage of it. Tesla opened six Supercharger sites in October 2012, said they could potentially cover over 90% of the population in the 'lower 48' with 200 sites across the U.S., and currently have 564 operational Superchargers in the U.S.

    Per InsideEVs, there had been 9,033 BOLT sold though July 2018, and 38,082 Model 3. That's a 4.2158751245:1 ratio in Tesla's favor. Not that GM ever actually intended for BOLT to sell well, even with an eight/nine month lead on beginning production/sales. Someone has to build them before anyone will come. Well, unless it is a Tesla.

    I wonder if people will be [PEEVED] if Tesla were to announce there will be no preorders or reservations taken for Model Y...?
  • edited September 2018
    Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business. Yay! Truth!
  • edited September 2018
    As long as Tesla is not bankrupt, I will only buy cars from Tesla.
  • edited September 2018
    Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business. Trolls the world over have no cause to celebrate the utter decimation of sales for ICE based competitors by Model 3 in both July and August of 2018. Oh, they wanted so much for people to believe thrir FUD, meant to discourage Tesla Enthusiasts from buying... And it didn't work at all.

    Well, they can atleast be happy that reduced their estimate of Model 3 U.S. sales in August 2018 from 20,450 units tobonly 17,800 as reported by InsideEVs... Though that still represents a 19.94% increase over July 2018 U.S. sales of 14,250 units... So, maybe not, since Trolls insisted there was no 'ramp up at all', that Tesla was experiencing 'lower demand', and a practical 20% improvement month-to-month proves them entirely wrong, again.

    In terms of trends, Model 3 outsold Mercedes-Benz C-Class, BMW 3-Series, and AUDI A4 combined by 31.42% in July 2018, and outsold them all by a combined 34.89% in August 2018.

    14,250 ___ Tesla Model 3
    _2,746 ___ AUDI A4
    _3,185 ___ BMW 3-Series
    _3,841 ___ Mercedes-Benz C-Class

    2,746 + 3,185 + 3,841 = 9,772

    9,772 ÷ 14,250 = 0.685754386

    A total 31.42% advantage for Tesla Model 3 compared to all those competitors.

    17,800 ___ Tesla Model 3
    _3,768 ___ AUDI A4
    _3,751 ___ BMW 3-Series
    _4,071 ___ Mercedes-Benz C-Class

    3,768 + 3,751 + 4071 = 11,590

    11,590 ÷ 17,800 = 0.6511235955

    A combined 34.89% advantage for Model 3 over all the others (higher than the month before), despite their sales improving by 15.69% month-to-month.

    9,772 ÷ 11,590 = 0.8431406385

    Traditional automobile manufacturers observing Tesla's sales in a 'Wait and see...' manner are no different than traditional department stores looking at revenue results for Walmart. They will eventually try to get a piece of the pie for themselves from the upstart 'newcomer'. And when they do, they'll apply the wrong strategy due to pride and prejudice.

    Companies like JC Penney, Sears, and Kmart mistakenly thought Walmart had grown as they did because of low prices. No, Walmart grew because they built their own, internal distribution channel. They chose not to expand or open a new store anywhere unless it was within 12 hours' drive to make deliveries from a distribution center. Do, they earned that expansin inch-by-inch, mile-by-mile, throughout the U.S. All while filling in that 'big, empty place' ('flyover country') between Los Angeles and New York. None of the others had built a similar distribution network, they relied upon the third party distribution of their vendors. So, they couldn't stock their stores as quickly or as profitably as Walmart, when they tried to steal and copy their business method by going with lower prices. Oh, and they weren't as aggressive as Walmart at getting lower prices from either American, Mexican, or Chinese suppliers. It just didn't work. Today, Sears, Kmart, and JC Penney are constantly rumored to be staving off bankruptcy wuarter-to-quarter,month-to-month, week-to-week, day-to-day, hour-by-hour, and minute-by-minute.

    Traditional automobile manufacturers refuse to build out their own Fast DC Charging networks in a manner to allow easy travel between major population centers. Instead, they have only courted existing third party firms that offer slow, low level urban charging infrastructure in a piecemeal fashion. Sometimes they claim to offer charging at their 'independent franchised dealerships', yet that experience has proven difficult at best, since the 'rules' vary from one site to the next. Some are only open during business hours. Some are available only to prople who bought from that particular store, even for the same brand cars. Some are routinely blocked by ICE vehicles. By expessly deciding not to replicate or participate in the Tesla Supercharger network, traditional automobile manufacturers remove a fundamental factor that has led to Tesla's success, and cripple their own chances with EVs.
  • edited September 2018
    Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business. The expected quarterly DIP in TSLA has taken place, just ahead of the end of the BIGGEST QUARTER IN TESLA HISTORY, and Tesla fans are wisely using this as an opportunity to BUY at a discount! They'll gain far more in years to come than shorts have won in the past couple of weeks.

    I wonder how many automotive companies that use 'independent franchised dealerships' will declare bankruptcy in the next three-to-five years, so they can dump NADA and the UAW legally?
  • edited September 2018
    Buy Mortimer, buy . . . buy . . .
  • edited September 2018
    Here's a helpful review along with embedded videos on estimated costs -
  • edited September 2018
    Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business. The number one troll around here has still not responded with an updated declaration of when he actually expects Tesla to go belly up once and for all. Maybe he has abandoned that tack, knowing full well that Tesla gave Goldman Sachs The FINGER and won't be borrowing from them again, EVER. Little do they realize, their attempt to sabotage TSLA by announcing the stock would fall was calculated as being precisely what it has become -- an opportunity for LONGS to buy and HOLD forever.

    SamO: The 'usual wager' is a good thing.
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