Model 3

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Collision Avoidance-Always on?

Ok, I feel weird asking this, since I've been driving my M3 for 2 months. ;-)

Is collision avoidance always on even when not in any autopilot modes? I feel like I've come up manually on cars that stopped quickly and was way ahead of the car's "brain," if it's on, because I never got any warning and it certainly didn't break for me.

To me, I would love a mode that literally prevents me (as much as physics and the car allow) from hitting an object. I should not be able to drive my car into a wall, period, if this mode was on. The car should see it and automatically brake. I have a feeling, this is not the way it is now.

It almost pushes me to stay in the auto-cruise control since in that mode, it will always look for objects in front of me and break.

So, am I correct in assuming that the car is not always in true "collision avoidant" mode?

Thanks. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm certainly not willing to test it. lol
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Comments

  • edited September 2018
    I was just wondering about this myself after placing my order this week. I chose to “invest” in EAP and FSD options, but wondered what the collision avoidance or warnings are with AP off. I am hoping there is some type of brake assist now or in the near future even if AP is off. Although I’ll enjoy AP as often as possible, I’m sure it will be unavailable or I’ll forget to activate it at times.
  • edited September 2018
    Well, I've searched on this and you definitely have collision avoidance with or without the additional EAP/FSD. However, I'm still not 100% certain that it is as "dummy proof" as I'm thinking. In other words, I would love to be physically UNABLE to ram a car or wall...within reason, of course. Right now, I'm not sure that's the way it is. I've gotten the alarm/warning a couple times, but I have come up quickly on stopped cars and always feel like I've had to hit the brakes fast. I do not feel like the car would have "avoided a collision."
  • edited September 2018
    Oh, and by the way, congrats on your order. Incredible car...years ahead of it's competitors. I heard someone describe it as the same feeling of when the original iPhone came out. I have stolen their comment and said it many times since, because it is that big of a game-changer.
  • edited September 2018
    Hey Kevin, I was wondering the same and not willing to test it out either :) I have seen a couple YouTube videos of autopilot stopping when people are in front of the car (so I assume it would stop for a wall) but not sure if it would brake while we are driving it:

    Model 3 testing -
    Model S testing -
  • edited September 2018
    Yes indeed it is. When you get too close to the car in front it beeps loudly and the car in front turns red on the screen
  • edited September 2018
    @sccrendo-Yes, it beeps. But will it stop? That's the question here. I have had it beep a couple times (by the way, both times it beeped way too late for me to do anything about it)

    I guess I just want a "dummy mode" that refuses no matter what to drive into something. That would be true collision avoidance. I'm still uncertain if that's what we have or not...as I have had cars stop in front of me and seemingly, nothing happened except the beeps/warnings.
  • edited September 2018
    I read on this forum where a poster claimed his car was stopped in a situation in which it would have hit something otherwise. I believe it was in the past week, but don't recall the thread.....
  • edited September 2018
    This is what the Owner's Manual states (Pages 79-80):

    Automatic Emergency Braking
    The forward looking camera(s) and the radar
    sensor are designed to determine the distance
    from an object (vehicle, motorcycle, bicycle, or
    pedestrian) traveling in front of Model 3.
    When a frontal collision is considered
    unavoidable, Automatic Emergency Braking is
    designed to apply the brakes to reduce the
    severity of the impact.
    When Automatic Emergency Braking applies
    the brakes, the touchscreen displays a visual
    warning and sounds a chime. You may also
    notice abrupt downward movement of the
    brake pedal. The brake lights turn on to alert
    other road users that you are slowing down.
    If driving 29 mph (46 km/h) or faster, the
    brakes are released after Automatic
    Emergency Braking has reduced your driving
    speed by 25 mph (40 km/h). For example, if
    Automatic Emergency Braking applies braking
    when driving 56 mph (90 km/h), it releases
    the brakes when your speed has been reduced
    to 31 mph (50 km/h).
    Automatic Emergency Braking operates only
    when driving between approximately 7 mph
    (10 km/h) and 90 mph (150 km/h).
    Automatic Emergency Braking does not apply
    the brakes, or stops applying the brakes,
    when:
    • You turn the steering wheel sharply.
    • You press and release the brake pedal
    while Automatic Emergency Braking is
    applying the brakes.
    • You accelerate hard (the pressure on the
    accelerator pedal increases from below
    90% to above 90%) while Automatic
    Emergency Braking is applying the brakes.
    • The vehicle, motorcycle, bicycle, or
    pedestrian is no longer detected ahead.
    Automatic Emergency Braking is always
    enabled when you start Model 3. To disable it
    for your current drive, touch Controls >
    Autopilot > Settings > Automatic Emergency
    Braking > OFF.
    Warning: It is strongly recommended that
    you do not disable Automatic Emergency
    Braking. If you disable it, Model 3 does
    not automatically apply the brakes in
    situations where a collision is considered
    likely.
    Warning: Automatic Emergency Braking
    is designed to reduce the severity of an
    impact. It is not designed to avoid a
    collision.
    Warning: Several factors can affect the
    performance of Automatic Emergency
    Braking, causing either no braking or
    inappropriate or untimely braking. It is the
    driver’s responsibility to drive safely and
    remain in control of the vehicle at all
    times. Never depend on Automatic
    Emergency Braking to avoid or reduce
    the impact of a collision.
    Warning: Automatic Emergency Braking
    is designed to reduce the impact of
    frontal collisions only and does not
    function when Model 3 is in Reverse.
    Warning: Automatic Emergency Braking
    is not a substitute for maintaining a safe
    traveling distance between you and the
    vehicle in front of you.
    Warning: The brake pedal moves
    downward abruptly during automatic
    braking events. Always ensure that the
    brake pedal can move freely. Do not place
    material under or on top of the Teslasupplied
    driver’s floor mat (including an
    additional mat) and always ensure that
    the driver’s floor mat is properly secured.
    Failure to do so can impede the ability of
    the brake pedal to move freely.
    Note: For advance notice of an Automatic
    Emergency Braking event, turn on Forward
    Collision Warning (see Forward Collision
    Warning on page 79). When turned on, you
    hear a chime and see a collision warning on
    the touchscreen if a collision is considered
    likely. Then, if you do not take immediate
    Collision Avoidance Assist
    80 Model 3 Owner's Manual
    corrective action, a collision is considered
    imminent and Automatic Emergency Braking
    applies braking to reduce driving speed. If
    enabled, Automatic Emergency Braking
    applies braking when a collision is considered
    inevitable, even if Forward Collision Warning is
    turned off.
    Limitations and Inaccuracies
    Collision Avoidance features cannot always
    detect all objects, vehicles, bikes, or
    pedestrians, and you may experience
    unnecessary, inaccurate, invalid, or missed
    warnings for many reasons, particularly if:
    • The road has sharp curves.
    • Visibility is poor (due to heavy rain, snow,
    fog, etc.).
    • Bright light (such as from oncoming
    headlights or direct sunlight) is interfering
    with the view of the camera(s).
    • The radar sensor is obstructed (dirty,
    covered, etc.).
    • The windshield is obstructing the view of
    the camera(s) (fogged over, dirty, covered
    by a sticker, etc.).
    Warning: The limitations previously
    described do not represent an exhaustive
    list of situations that may interfere with
    proper operation of Collision Avoidance
    Assist features. These features may fail to
    provide their intended function for many
    other reasons. It is the driver’s
    responsibility to avoid collisions by
    staying alert, paying attention, and taking
    corrective action as early as possible.
    Caution: If a fault occurs with a Collision
    Avoidance Assist feature, Model 3
    displays an alert. Contact Tesla Service.
    Collision Avoidance As
  • edited September 2018
    It would appear that you can disable Auto braking, and seems to imply that it will never fully stop your car. It is meant to decrease the severity of a collision, not avoid a collision.

    However, TACC will bring the car to a full stop, at least it did during my use of it in heavy traffic during the free trial period.
  • edited September 2018
    Hmm...perhaps they should label it "Collision Minimalization" rather than "avoidance." ;-) From what I understand from reading that, it only slows you down, but will not fully stop. I guess the thinking is by then, a driver would have taken over.

    My question will turn into a wish, in this case. I wish it would not allow me to plow into a car no matter what...just as it stops when in cruise control mode. It should work the same way, imo.

    This makes me think it's actually SAFER to stay in auto mode as much as possible and let the car stop when something is in front of it...
  • edited September 2018
    My question is... What if you are driving between 7 mph and 25 mph? Will it slow you down to 0 mph?
  • edited September 2018
    I was about to order a non-Tesla floor mat, but the owner's manual has this statement: Do not place
    material under or on top of the Tesla supplied driver’s floor mat (including an additional mat)

    This is what I'd like to order, but now I'm concerned it will void the warranty:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BNDKPM8
  • edited September 2018
    @gw.... I do not think it will void your warranty for anything other than if you claim premature damage to the carpet floor mats that come with the car. Car companies tell you not to put anything on top of or below because it can, in rare situations, interfere with the safe use of the pedals
  • edited September 2018
    With car mats, the warranty isn't an issue. A few years ago, the police agency I worked for added weather-resistant mats to all of our Chevy Tahoe SUVs. The car mats weren't designed specifically for that vehicle and often slid up under the accelerator pedals. The first time it happened to me I thought the SUV was out of control. Fortunately, the brakes override acceleration so I was able to stop just before colliding with a car at an intersection. The day that happened, I went into all of the SUVs and threw the mats in the garbage.

    Just make sure the mats are intended for the vehicle you are putting them in and don't have issues with slipping. It seems that those mats are intended for M3, but there is my PSA for car mat safety.
  • edited September 2018
    @Modern... About 10 years ago here in SD on the CA-125 freeway, an off duty (CHP I think) officer had the issue where the mat got stuck. The car unfortunately hit head on a cement barrier at the end of the exit at like 110 mph and killed himself and 2 other people. Very sad. I think it was a Toyota or Lexus vehicle. After that, every time I took my Lexus to the local dealer for service, they would always put my after market rubber mat in the trunk when I got the car back.
  • JADJAD
    edited September 2018
    The car will always try to avoid accidents, but the driver always has final control and can cause an accident by not watching or allowing the car to correct.. it will warm you and start to brake but you need to finish braking. If you hit the gas, it will crash.
  • JADJAD
    edited September 2018
    And it is not even perfect at that, but it is the best available.
  • edited September 2018
    I try use TACC and EAP as much as possible. When they are not engaged and I get the warning I don’t bother to look whether the car slows or has applied brakes. I slam on brakes myself and don’t test whether it will stop itself. This has only happened a couple of times in 17000 miles.
  • edited September 2018
    @kevinwild “Hmm...perhaps they should label it ‘Collision Minimalization’ rather than ‘avoidance.’ ”
    ~~~~~

    It’s not called collision anything. It’s called Automatic Emergency Braking. Collision Avoidance Assist is a set of features that includes Forward Collision Warning, which alerts the driver to take action, and Automatic Emergency Braking, which activates to minimize a collision when the driver fails to heed the warning.

    If AEB actives you’ve failed to heed the warning. That’s on you. Unless it’s the rare situation where a car pulls right in front of you at the last second.

    An owner posted a couple of months ago about an incident where his Model 3 probably saved his life. He was in a left turn lane waiting for a green light. An 18-wheeler was waiting in the left forward lane in the opposite direction. The right lane next to the truck was empty.

    When his light turned green he started to turn when the car yanked the steering wheel hard right and slammed on the breaks. As he looked up, a speeding car coming through the intersection from the empty lane next to the truck missed him by mere inches.

    His car detected the speeding car from behind the truck where he didn’t even see it approaching.
  • edited September 2018
    Fascinating subject for me. Thanks for all that contributed.
    Improving on what we can do just by ourselves maybe one definition of automation.

    I came to the conclusion early on that advanced cruise control was the safest way to avoid unintended slow speed collisions. I’ve experienced the alerts that the present collision avoidance offers, and I’ve read the limitations (7 mph, slow speeds engagement), and found that advanced cruise control braking works over a wide spectrum of speeds and traffic conditions.
    Controlling speeds (right scroll) and following distance (right/left togling) makes it painless. Another incredibly smart minimalist feature of my M3.
    Sure hoping for stop lights and stop signs recognition in the future.

    On freeways, again thinking about safety, the present auto pilot is great. Sure looking forward for V9.
  • I’ve had my model Y for 500 miles and have used auto pilot only on two lane roads were available. It appears auto pilot wants to be centered in my lane but when going around curves it seems to veer a little bit toward the center line which becomes a bit uncomfortable with oncoming traffic. Is there a way to adjust the centering more to the right rather than in the center? When I’m driving without auto pilot I tend to drive more to the right then in the center which I feel is safer.
  • Oops. New to this forum and now see that I posted the above in the wrong place.
  • “Automatic Emergency Braking” is probably what causes phantom braking. It’s a false positive of the neural network that detects obstacles. My guess.
  • Last November my EAB kicked in at about 2-3 mph while trying to squeeze between two parked cars with a person talking to the person in one of the cars. It stopped so hard and fast that the person standing there jumped. It certainly startled the crap out of me.
    So, at least last November, EAB works below 7 mph.
  • > @wayne47 said: > “Automatic Emergency Braking” is probably what causes phantom braking."

    Nope. EAB has it's own signal and that's HARD braking.

    Phantom is due to "Full Self Driving" needs so it is overly sensitive, some say dangerously sensitive to things like bridges, overpasses, bicyclers in bike lanes and frequently nothing at all.

    It's mostly the regen kicking in as car stops acceleration.
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