Model S

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No Model S Refresh Anytime Soon

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Comments

  • edited November 2018
    @SO here's a real world example of the challenge I'm taking about:
  • SOSO
    edited November 2018
    What if, what if, what if. For Pete’s sake man....Get a grip.

    What if a hurricane hit and no gas stations had fuel and your neighbor had an emergency?

    What if the gas station was closed and you didn’t have enough fuel to get to the hospital?

    What if gas prices spiked and people started siphoning your gas and therefore you didn’t have enough to get to a gas station to refuel.

    ALL types of vehicles have compromises. No sh!t.

    Tesla will refresh the Model S once it appears it is necessary. It is driven by demand and they have plenty of other things on their plate. No sense on pulling a demand lever too early. Why you keep going on about this is absolutely nuts.
  • edited November 2018
    Darth, ever heard of the expression, the proof is in the pudding? Tesla is eating the traditional OEMs lunch. Need proof? Why are the traditional OEMs spending so much money on making their own EVs if their gas powered cars are superior. The answer is, because they are losing sales to Tesla. This isn’t opinion, just the facts.
  • edited November 2018
    @SO that situation happens far more often than your example which is a year old after a natural disaster. My example was from last night without any distaster. That situation will trust itself at about 4pm at the Fountain Valley supercharger guaranteed. Many others as well... EV charging challenges are a daily occurrence that affect many people. A vehicle that has too few charging stations, takes 15 min to an hour to charge at those stations and many more hours at home is not equivalent in performance to an ICE car that can gas up at will in 5 minutes at any street corner. All of us who actually drive EVs know this whether we admit it or not. The technology and infrastructure necessary to bring parity is decades away. Some people are willing to accept this compromise because they like the look of the car. But the majority aren't yet willing and for valid reason.
  • edited November 2018
    @Jordan you're right. Certain manufacturers are losing sales because many people like Teslas better. That's a good thing. But looked at holistically it's not in numbers that they can't absorb for now. I mentioned previously that the other Autos are always doing R&D and have the ability to launch their own EVs for the small part of the market that wants them. You have to consider that a company like Ford or Toyota produce more cars in a month than Tesla has to date. Tesla is trending well and if they continue performing the way they have in terms of sales whike growing capacity then you'll be dead on. But to do that they will need to overcome the technical limits I mentioned and find innovative ways to keep pulling the demand lever.
  • SOSO
    edited November 2018
    @Darth - I’d much rather deal with a wait during high traffic times over a holiday than when a huge natural disaster is coming in. I’d have many other concerns to worry about. The situation you show only affects a few charging locations with high volume that does need more stations. My example shows no fuel for much larger areas and people are stressing about it.

    Many hurricanes have this same situation.

    As far as lack of charging stations go, that’s why they need to be expanded upon.....and are.
  • edited November 2018
    Darthamerica,
    You are wrong. My guess is because you have incomplete data. For example the carbon footprint argument does not hold true when one considers the mining, refining and transportation of the gasoline. This argument also leaves out the massive amounts of extremely cancer causing particulates that also comes from the exhaustion of a Fossil car.

    Another area you are wrong about is in the performance of a Tesla. It’s not just that it only has 0-60 superiority but no ICE car can respond to input as fast as an electrical car. Not to mention the percision with which it responds to the controls. Even the traction control works far better than and ICE can. As for not being able to handle excessively high speed for long periods of time, that is simply because a Model S’s cooling system was not intended for track use. This is a simple easy fix. Even top speed can be increased with little effort. However none of this belongs on a family luxury sedan.

    Even the advancement of FSD can’t be done by anyone as fast as Tesla. This is because only Tesla has a massive fleet of test cars on the road and the number is growing daily. I don’t know if you’re aware but all Tesla’s since 2016 have FSD in learning mod. So while we all drive (whether we use Autopilot or not) it is still learning and collecting data at an unsurpassed volume. It is extremely unlikely that any company could finish their FSD before Tesla.

    Most of what you said is not true or incomplete information.
  • SOSO
    edited November 2018
    And since you seem to think it’s been over a year since there have been backups and shortages at gas stations due to hurricanes, this is last month.

    https://www.foxbusiness.com/energy/hurricane-michael-gas-shortages-pop-up-in-florida
  • SOSO
    edited November 2018
    @Darth - you are probably already familiar with supercharge.info but as you can see, new sites are being added.

    https://supercharge.info/map
  • edited November 2018
    Yes, there are lines at some superchagers.
    Yes, it takes longer to fuel a BEV than an ICE.

    It is NOT the car for everyone. There are over 200 different model cars sold in the US - people choose the right one for them

    But it DOES produce half the emissions of an ICE vehicle.
  • edited November 2018
    I am sorry but for me a Tesla is not at parity with the Fossil experience. It is superior to it. I live better with a Tesla than with a Fossil. The vast benefits of a Tesla makes up for any short comings.
  • edited November 2018
    Rooftop solar is also not the right solution for everyone - makes no sense if your roof is shaded or oriented the wrong way.

    Wind turbine is not the right solution everywhere. No point in putting one up where there is no wind.

    With your logic, we should abandon solar and wind because it is not the right solution in every situation.
  • edited November 2018
    Nailed it! Now who is this “straight shooter” hiding behind a new moniker? Coward.
  • SOSO
    edited November 2018
    @Anthony - exactly. For what I use my EV for, it’s better than any gas car.

    Are there people for which the opposite is true? Of course.
  • edited November 2018
    What I agree with is that EV cars are here to stay and have to potential to displace ICE in a few decades perhaps in the late 2030s. I salute Tesla for pushing it faster than it would otherwise have happened. But in the interim ICE vehicles are still better overall. Before the forum troll shows up, I'm not talking about individual drivers like me and others who have decided we are ok with the compromises. I mean for the majority of drivers 99.99% of whom still drive ICE and will continue doing so until more improvements are possible.
  • edited November 2018
    @Darthamerica.....seriously...did you just say this “ You're not any more green than a H2 Hummer unless you're getting power from solar or nuclear. Sorry but that's just reality.”.

    I will make this simple and realistic...you place your mouth around the exhaust of a running H2 and breath deeply for an hour and I will place mine around the exhaust of a running Tesla Model S for an hour. The one who can walk away is the winner.
  • SOSO
    edited November 2018
    “Before the forum troll shows up,”

    Now THAT is funny.
  • edited November 2018
    Why are we comparing a Tesla Model S with a Mercedes Benz S series? Two different cars on different platforms. We can compare specific features of each..but not the entire car. Mercedes would win a lot of points and Tesla would win at others.
    I do agree that Telas could introduce a new interior or exterior at any time...wouldn’t surprise me in the least, and EV competition will look very different in 2020. BUT...we are here today because of the risk Tesla and Elon Musk took...and it worked...EVs are here to stay and will only get better. ICE is becoming legacy.
  • edited November 2018
    At least we know that if we don’t want to wait in lines, we could always fly.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jordantarwater/status/1066293995209453569
  • edited November 2018
    @Spotsygamer ICE isn't becoming legacy in our lifetime if ever. However EVs are going to become a more common option that drivers can choose from. You compare S Class with Model S because that's what Tesla does on it's website and marketing materials. With regard to H2 vs Model S and the environment. Yes a Model S is cleaner during operation. But like an H2 it still requires fuel to produce, transport and most EVs get power from the burning of fossil fuels. Any difference in efficiency between the two has been negligible in terms of saving the environment. To understand completely would require deep research into the impact of emissions on the climate which is not understood by even climate change experts. Again before priest and trolls show up I'm not arguing that a Hummer doesn't burn more fuel by virtue of it's engine. That's a fact. What's not a fact is how it has made an impact on the planet and all we have are opinions that we can't be proved. It's also a fact that in most cases building and charging a Model S also causes emissions just from different sources. If we get to a point where most of the energy needed for EV production and charging comes from clean sources, which is what Tesla's goal is, you can say Model S is greener. But that will be a while because such a transition takes time. And even then we may still not know how effective it is because the climate is a very complicated system and we don't know enough about it to have more than opinions. But I agree it's a good idea to try to be environmentally friendly when it's possible.
  • edited November 2018
    @Spotsygamer ICE isn't becoming legacy in our lifetime if ever. However EVs are going to become a more common option that drivers can choose from. You compare S Class with Model S because that's what Tesla does on it's website and marketing materials. With regard to H2 vs Model S and the environment. Yes a Model S is cleaner during operation. But like an H2 it still requires fuel to produce, transport and most EVs get power from the burning of fossil fuels. Any difference in efficiency between the two has been negligible in terms of saving the environment. To understand completely would require deep research into the impact of emissions on the climate which is not understood by even climate change experts. Again before priest and trolls show up I'm not arguing that a Hummer doesn't burn more fuel by virtue of it's engine. That's a fact. What's not a fact is how it has made an impact on the planet and all we have are opinions that we can't be proved. It's also a fact that in most cases building and charging a Model S also causes emissions just from different sources. If we get to a point where most of the energy needed for EV production and charging comes from clean sources, which is what Tesla's goal is, you can say Model S is greener. But that will be a while because such a transition takes time. And even then we may still not know how effective it is because the climate is a very complicated system and we don't know enough about it to have more than opinions. But I agree it's a good idea to try to be environmentally friendly when it's possible.
  • edited November 2018
    Let's take a closer look at your beloved H2:

    9 mpg with 32 gal tank, or 288 miles of range - less than the S100, X100, or 3 LR.
    Cost to travel 200 miles - about 10-12 times more than a Tesla
    Speed 0-60 - 7.1 seconds, slower than every Tesla ever made
    Max Speed: 99 mph - slower than every Tesla ever made.
    Cargo space - 4 cu feet - less than every Tesla ever made (including the Roadster)
    Road Handling - .62g, far worse than any Tesla ever made.
    Breaking - 244 feet, far longer than any Tesla ever made
    Turning radius - 44.3 feet - worse than any Tesla ever made
    H2 rated as the #5 worst polluting vehicle made (http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25516947/ns/business-autos/t/dirty-driving-top-worst-polluters/#.W_sEJeiQGn8)

    I could go on, but the H2 is a dog, as are most ICE vehicles when compared with Tesla. Sure, some ICE vehicles might have one or two features better than a Tesla, but often fail in so many more.
  • edited November 2018
    Darthamerica,
    Again you are wrong. Even if the electricity comes from 100% coal, the act of accelerating an ICE engine puts out far more carcinogenic matter than the power plant does for the same amount of electricity to do the same work. This is because during acceleration an ICE engine is only 20% efficient. Also we have gone from producing 60% of our electricity down to only 30%. This change only took 5 years. I am sorry but so much of what you are saying is wrong now. How much better will it be in just ten years.

    And while you are right that driving a Tesla in ten years from now will be way easier than a Fossil, today it is way better in almost every way. The only real disadvantage I see is recharging does take long than refilling. But on a long trip that has never been a problem for me. I need to stop every two hours for the bathroom any way. The car gets recharged way sooner than it needs. That means recharging time matches my bathroom break time. So no problem!

    I said it before, living with a Tesla is for better than living with a Fossil today!
  • edited November 2018
    That should have been “Also we have gone from producing 60% of our electricity produced from coal down to only 30% produced from coal.
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