Model S

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No Model S Refresh Anytime Soon

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  • edited November 2018
    ICE manufacturers indeed, if left to their own, will continue to produce gassers until then cease to be profitable.

    The game changer has been that many Governments, all over the world, have had enough of the pollution and sickness that these vehicles cause in Urban areas.

    They will only stop pushing gassers when they are no longer acceptable to society.

    Like the Heroin pusher, they car not about the damage they are doing, but only about the profits to be had.

    Tesla is showing the way forward, and it is clean.
  • edited November 2018
    So. Are we all agreed, no Model S refresh any time soon?
  • edited November 2018
    A thread about future designs was a good vector to hijack by darthfudius. Remarkable.

    Even the name ‘Darth’ mocks those who already know the Force, befitting a voice that whispers a ‘dark side’, to persistently diminish Tesla’s inarguable accomplishments.

    The ICE industry is not now following Tesla’s lead for fun. BMW 3 series sales are down about 40%, so they are forced to try to catch up.

    An example that betrays Darth’s methods - assymetric criticism, and contrived circumstances, to create a tilted narrative -

    “What if you get home without enough charge left to go to the hospital?”

    But no mention of the counterpart -

    “What if you get home and your tank is almost empty, without a nearby gas station?”

    With my S, I can put in a mile a minute of range, in my own driveway. With my Mercedes, I’d have to Uber to fetch a couple gallons of gas (I’ve had to do that). So my EV is actually superior in that case for me.

    In any case, if for any reason, your car (of any kind) wasn’t working, logically you’d just summon an Uber and handle the emergency. The assymetry here is contrived, and not practical reality.

    Conjuring a contrived emergency situation that artificially worries EV buyer prospects - that is the stock-in-trade of FUD merchants.

    But sound arguments need no tilt to prevail.

    Sound arguments can be generous to their opposition, because they still prevail on the merits.

    Darth is fiction, for a purpose.

    If you were BMW for example, such narrative is how you might cope until you can catch up.
  • edited November 2018
    @Mark it's not FUD or fiction, it's just that many of you are in denial because you're such huge fans you've lost objectivity. That's ok, you're entitled to your opinion as am I. When I see more EVs on the roads with the advances I mentioned then we can revisit. Until then we can all keep being the 1% who drive Teslas hoping that the winning streak continues.
  • edited November 2018
    "you've lost objectivity"

    You keep flaunting your unassailable objectivity yet on the major points of anthropogenic climate change and EV's carbon footprint from cradle to grave, the scientific studies do not support your position. It is the overwhelming scientific position that anthropogenic climate change exists, it is you who are clinging to a religious position of faith.
  • edited November 2018
    Darthamerica is the former gixxxerking, since he didn't feel like volunteering that fact. So he's the top motorcyclist, apparently, objectively.
  • edited November 2018
    Clearly it is far more efficient to use electricity to refine oil into gasoline and then transport that gasoline using a vehicle that burns more gasoline and use the gas to power an engine that is about 20% efficient, then it is to just use that electricity to power a motor that is about 90% efficient. Totally makes sense to me.
    (sarcasm)
  • edited November 2018
    And it probably comes as no surprise that he is the proud owner of a Hummer2.
  • edited November 2018
    @Bighorn - H2 is one of the worst vehicles made in so many ways. The fact he loves it and thinks it is better than a Tesla is not surprising consider his opinions. Really seems hard to believe he's a Tesla owner or has ever driven one.
  • edited November 2018
    Why are y'all wasting your ink writing/talking to this guy? Its clear he's only wants to argue.
  • edited November 2018
    Will this be a 5 minute argument or the full half hour?
  • edited November 2018
    I think it’s pertinent to point out that he’s suffered several head injuries.
  • edited November 2018
    Darthamerica said “My point is that because these compromises still exist, things like styling and refreshes matter greatly. Tesla needs to make a strong emotional appeal in order to get people to set aside the disadvantages that still exist. And refreshing the exterior is a way for Tesla to pull the demand lever.”

    If I may: the Model S makes that emotional appeal in its current form. It is a work of art. It is so aerodynamic, it is beautiful and inspiring. I truly don’t know how you improve it.

    Now please allow me to illustrate:

    Hershey’s Milk Choclate bar began production in 1900. In 1923 came along Milky Way with Carmel and Nougat. In 1928 comes Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups with a different shape and 2 cups instead of a traditional bar. And then.....

    1930 here comes Snicker’s! Today Snicker’s is the number 1 selling candy bar in the world.

    Thank God Hershey’s didn’t say, “oh no, the competition is adding all these other textures, flavors and ingredients. We need to change to keep up”.

    118 years later, Hershey’s Milk Chocolate is the #4 best selling candy bar in the world, a timeless classic! If Tesla is the #4 grossing EV in 118 years from now, I’d say Elon’s dream was achieved. And while the original roadster started it off, this timeless beauty, the Model S, is what brought not only Tesla into the mainstream consciousness, but EVs in general.

    (Mic drop) :)
  • edited November 2018
    So since you are unable to refute anything I said, is personal attack time huh Bighorn? Typical of you...

    Yes I owned an H2, motorcycles, S Class and multiple Model S vehicles. What's your point? Perhaps you should consider that I actually know what I'm talking about because my opinions are based on decades of experience with the vehicles we are discussing. Feel free to disregard they if you want, it doesn't change the fact that I'm right as much as you don't like that.

    @Hammer what scientific studies? There are many theories about climate change. Yes I know about the so called anthropocine. It's still not proven by scientific standards because there isn't enough data or even understanding of the variables. By why argue this when I already said being environmentally considerate is a good thing when practical?

    I realize many of you live your cars. But do you live them so much you're blind to reality? I'm not going to do that. I have owned more Teslas than most of you, driven more miles and just want to see it considered objectivity. This is so the shortcomings can be addressed. Better batteries, better charging speeds, more convenient charging locations and better performance. Unless you all are saying you think vampire loss and thermal management can't be further improved, your arguments make no logical sense. And finally, the car needs interior and exterior refreshing. Especially the interior where it is behind most cars in it's class.
  • edited November 2018
    @NRGrin "If I may: the Model S makes that emotional appeal in its current form. It is a work of art. It is so aerodynamic, it is beautiful and inspiring. I truly don’t know how you improve it."

    I agree with you but I'm not a designer. Tesla apparently has good designers so I'm sure they have some ideas for a refresh. The thing is you don't want the product to get stale. People are drawn to a new look. I think one area they could make some functional improvement is the B pillar. It's too far forward as causes passengers to have to turn and sit perpendicular to the long axis of the car in order not to "slide" in on the pillar or seat. This can cause cosmetic damage to the flimsy/delicate interior construction.
  • SOSO
    edited November 2018
    @NRGrin - it would be hilarious if you deleted this thread. :-)
  • edited November 2018
    @NRGrin also if they made the cooling better able to handle sustained high speed in the performance model.
  • edited November 2018
    @Darth, give it up.

    You got the fact based smack down and are still digging a deeper hole, of which you are in.

    Can you now refute @Chunky’s sarcasm, or do we need to explain those facts to you?

    Sigh.
  • edited November 2018
    Darth, who do you think you are coming on OUR forum and speaking poorly of Tesla? What gives you the right to suggest ICE vehicles are better in some aspects? Go away - get out of here - NOBODY wants to hear your opinions! Sieg Heil my Tesla brothers and sisters! Hail the Elon!
  • edited November 2018
    "the car needs interior and exterior refreshing. Especially the interior where it is behind most cars in it's class."

    That's a subjective opinion. In what ways is a Tesla interior "behind"? To my taste, it's ahead.

    "... the B pillar. It's too far forward as causes passengers to have to turn and sit perpendicular to the long axis of the car in order not to "slide" in on the pillar or seat."

    None of my passengers have had to "turn and sit perpendicular to the long axis of the car in order not to "slide" in on the pillar or seat." But I admit that I don't understand what you mean by any of that. My passengers have all thought that the seating was very comfortable.
  • edited November 2018
    @Darth,

    You claim that you have both Hummer and 90D Tesla. You also state that ICE cars are better than Tesla cars in most aspects. Please back up your claims with facts, not opinions and innuendo that would make your arguments appear flimsy and yourself look like many other ICE trolling hijackers on this forum.

    Please respond to TeslaTap's facts regarding your beloved Hummer.
  • edited November 2018
    @NKYTA no one has been able to refute what I wrote which is that refreshes are necessary, Model S isn't totally superior to ICE vehicles yet, climate change and its causes aren't fully understood. I love it how some people anoint themselves as religious police on a forum and find it necessary to attack other's opinions. Just agree to disagree and move on without the invective. Or civily express and discuss why you believe otherwise. It's maturity... Just sayin'
  • edited November 2018
    "no one has been able to refute what I wrote which is that refreshes are necessary,"

    Yes, refreshes are necessary. The question is, how often, or how soon, does a particular model need a refresh (or a discontinuance)? Also, how extensive a change is required to be considered a "refresh"?
  • edited November 2018
    @Yodrak I think it's a demand driven question. As long as Tesla is able to sell more cars than it can build, they can put the priority on other things. But I think it's better to get ahead of needing to rely on styling changes to keep existing customers or get new customers. Eventually it will be a buyer's market and customers ain't loyal!
  • edited November 2018
    @Darth

    “Chunky Jr. | November 25, 2018
    Clearly it is far more efficient to use electricity to refine oil into gasoline and then transport that gasoline using a vehicle that burns more gasoline and use the gas to power an engine that is about 20% efficient, then it is to just use that electricity to power a motor that is about 90% efficient. Totally makes sense to me.
    (sarcasm)”

    Refute that.

    I could go further up thread for more examples, but if you are too dense to grasp simple concepts, we can’t help you.

    Tesla “customers” seem to be 97% “loyal”.

    The tin-foil hat doesn’t suit you. Try and get out a bit more.
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